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D&D 5E Discussion

Eldrin

Novice
Joined
May 28, 2024
Messages
75
Somehow i did not remember greyhawk looking like that either:
You have to be a special kind of stupid to think that an adventurer in a high fantasy setting would ever be confined to a wheelchair or transgender. It's almost like any of these designers and artists have never bothered to read their list of spells or gone through the magic items table. There's a various magical means to fix crippling injuries and several ways to actually change your gender that have been in Dungeons & Dragons since AD&D E1, though most of the gender change stuff was considered a curse.

It also makes absolutely no sense why someone that is confined to a wheelchair would decide to be a "general" adventurer. How many people in a wheelchair decide to be a high rise window washer? How many people in a wheelchair work at Sea World training orcas? Or any job dealing directly with dangerous wild animals? Probably none considering the increased level of danger that would involve with those jobs and not having working legs. There's also no way someone designing a dungeon to keep adventurers out or kill them would put fucking wheelchair ramps in them. How about the parts of dungeons that are partially submerged? There's also no way that every cave where some monster is holed up in would be handicap accessible. There's also no deep, unkempt forest out there that grew in accordance with wheelchairs in mind.

Also, enjoy those Transmute spells, Mr. Wheelchair guy. Or Heat Metal. Heck, enjoy Grease on an inclined surface. Enjoy those bigoted Rust Monsters.

WotC has gone full retard on this. You can't stop and think about any of this inclusion shit for more than three minutes and not realize how incredibly stupid it is.
The answer will obviously be to further buff the wheelchair. Stairs? It can fly. Swim? It turns into a tiny submarine when in water. Spells? Reflects them all. Naturally, with such a wondrous item, the cripple character won't be interested in healing his legs as he'd rather keep using the magical wheelchair.

I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to make "cripple" a new class
God, I always hated those fcking pushes to include magical wheelchairs. Any adventurer, or even just a guard NPC or whatever, that has enough money/magical materials/influence to acquire such a battletank abomination of a wheelchair, has to have enough resources to properly fix his health condition. No sane person would ever voluntarily choose to remain a cripple.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,500
No sane person would ever voluntarily choose to remain a cripple.
WotC: "So we need to sweeten the deal, eh? What if the wheelchair can talk? If swords can talk, then so can wheelchairs. Would you stay a cripple to use a talking, magical wheelchair? No? What if it has a built-in flamethrower?"
 

Larianshill

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
1,917
GQdCKp9W4AAqDUC



Somehow, we went from "Orcs are blacks, and that's rayciss" to "Orcs are mexicans (and that's a good thing)".
This looks like a Chinese propaganda poster.
I showed this image to my mexican player (we didn't discuss it earlier, because the game was on a brief hiatus), and she was incredibly offended at the implications and asked how did it get past the sensitivity readers. We've also noticed that all dwarves on their art are racially diverse, and all elves are racially diverse. But the orcs are all mexicans.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,500
GQdCKp9W4AAqDUC



Somehow, we went from "Orcs are blacks, and that's rayciss" to "Orcs are mexicans (and that's a good thing)".
This looks like a Chinese propaganda poster.
I showed this image to my mexican player (we didn't discuss it earlier, because the game was on a brief hiatus), and she was incredibly offended at the implications and asked how did it get past the sensitivity readers. We've also noticed that all dwarves on their art are racially diverse, and all elves are racially diverse. But the orcs are all mexicans.
WotC: "Latinos will love this representation of orcs, it highlights their culture and makes it shine even in a fantasy world!"
Latinos: "Mexican... orcs...? Are they trying to imply we're niggers?"
 

Froila

Educated
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
Messages
154
Somehow i did not remember greyhawk looking like that either:
You have to be a special kind of stupid to think that an adventurer in a high fantasy setting would ever be confined to a wheelchair or transgender. It's almost like any of these designers and artists have never bothered to read their list of spells or gone through the magic items table. There's a various magical means to fix crippling injuries and several ways to actually change your gender that have been in Dungeons & Dragons since AD&D E1, though most of the gender change stuff was considered a curse.

It also makes absolutely no sense why someone that is confined to a wheelchair would decide to be a "general" adventurer. How many people in a wheelchair decide to be a high rise window washer? How many people in a wheelchair work at Sea World training orcas? Or any job dealing directly with dangerous wild animals? Probably none considering the increased level of danger that would involve with those jobs and not having working legs. There's also no way someone designing a dungeon to keep adventurers out or kill them would put fucking wheelchair ramps in them. How about the parts of dungeons that are partially submerged? There's also no way that every cave where some monster is holed up in would be handicap accessible. There's also no deep, unkempt forest out there that grew in accordance with wheelchairs in mind.

Also, enjoy those Transmute spells, Mr. Wheelchair guy. Or Heat Metal. Heck, enjoy Grease on an inclined surface. Enjoy those bigoted Rust Monsters.

WotC has gone full retard on this. You can't stop and think about any of this inclusion shit for more than three minutes and not realize how incredibly stupid it is.
Maybe they are disabled because no cleric would cast high level healing spells on them? Maybe they are atheists or something.
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
2,798
Location
The Present
When did orcs become a civilized race? What exactly was the impetus for them to stop being an evil animalistic horde bringing ruin to civilization? What's next? Are hook-horrors going to get retconned into reluctantly territorial ascetics?
 

IDtenT

Menace to sobriety!
Patron
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
14,677
Location
South Africa; My pronouns are: Banal/Shit/Boring
Divinity: Original Sin
When did orcs become a civilized race? What exactly was the impetus for them to stop being an evil animalistic horde bringing ruin to civilization? What's next? Are hook-horrors going to get retconned into reluctantly territorial ascetics?
They're considered a player character / protagonist in fantasy these days.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,500
When did orcs become a civilized race? What exactly was the impetus for them to stop being an evil animalistic horde bringing ruin to civilization? What's next? Are hook-horrors going to get retconned into reluctantly territorial ascetics?
It lends itself well to the common liberal cliche plot of "the monsters are just poor victims, the real bad guys are (white) humans". It's stupid and makes every fantasy race just reskinned humans, but it's what the liberal crowd wants, and what they're getting.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,438
When did orcs become a civilized race? What exactly was the impetus for them to stop being an evil animalistic horde bringing ruin to civilization? What's next? Are hook-horrors going to get retconned into reluctantly territorial ascetics?
I think they started with World of Warcraft, then in the Drizzt books, some orcs were portrayed as civilized. Later, this portrayal was retconned back and forth without clear reasons. I guess they absolutely want to move away from Tolkien's vision, where orcs symbolized industry ravaging nature and had nothing to do with black people, Mexicans, or any race at all. Elves were otherworldly creatures more akin to Nordic people. Now, you get African American trans female-to-male elves with mastectomy scars. I'm not even making that up as you saw already.
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
17,025
Location
Dutchland
GQdCKp9W4AAqDUC



Somehow, we went from "Orcs are blacks, and that's rayciss" to "Orcs are mexicans (and that's a good thing)".
This looks like a Chinese propaganda poster.
I showed this image to my mexican player (we didn't discuss it earlier, because the game was on a brief hiatus), and she was incredibly offended at the implications and asked how did it get past the sensitivity readers. We've also noticed that all dwarves on their art are racially diverse, and all elves are racially diverse. But the orcs are all mexicans.
The revised edition of Pathfinder 2e meanwhile has several core races ANCESTRIES for players to pick from. Humans get two improvements to their abilities, while all others except one get three at the cost of one negative modifier. Elves have reduced constitution because they're feeble, goblins have reduced wisdom because they're walking OSHA violations, dwarves have reduced wisdoms because they're grumps, halflings have reduced strength because they're manlets and so on. The only other that don't have this and have two positives like humans are the orcs, because it would be racist to say something negative about the racial characteristics of orcs because orcs are black people.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,704
When did orcs become a civilized race? What exactly was the impetus for them to stop being an evil animalistic horde bringing ruin to civilization?
It was when lefties figured out that black people are pretty similar to orcs. Seriously.
in medieval frescos and paintings where magic and sorcery are clearly real, was there ever a single image of a black person? what if their real job is to report wizards to the vatican and that's why nobody can cast fireball anymore?
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
13,606
Location
Behind you.
Why does everything look so damned goofy and pussified? Remember when D&D book covers showed some kind of actual action going on? It looks like that Druid is about to spread Monkeypox to the forest.
 

Blaggard

Literate
Joined
Jun 26, 2024
Messages
10
When did orcs become a civilized race? What exactly was the impetus for them to stop being an evil animalistic horde bringing ruin to civilization? What's next? Are hook-horrors going to get retconned into reluctantly territorial ascetics?
I think they started with World of Warcraft, then in the Drizzt books, some orcs were portrayed as civilized. Later, this portrayal was retconned back and forth without clear reasons. I guess they absolutely want to move away from Tolkien's vision, where orcs symbolized industry ravaging nature and had nothing to do with black people, Mexicans, or any race at all. Elves were otherworldly creatures more akin to Nordic people. Now, you get African American trans female-to-male elves with mastectomy scars. I'm not even making that up as you saw already.
It started in the Forgotten Realms with Grey Orcs. Mountain Orcs, the OG d&d Orcs were the classic "pig faced" brutal rapist Orcs (yeah, thats where your half orc PC came from), then they introduced Grey Orcs to the Forgotten Realms setting via a portal to a world full of hyper religious Orcs (somewhere near Thay in setting) which were more "civilized" and allowed a player to be a full fledged Orc without being a rapist.

As per usual, you can thank 3rd edition for their inclusion, and eventual metamorphosis into a "poor oppressed minority".
 

IDtenT

Menace to sobriety!
Patron
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
14,677
Location
South Africa; My pronouns are: Banal/Shit/Boring
Divinity: Original Sin
When did orcs become a civilized race? What exactly was the impetus for them to stop being an evil animalistic horde bringing ruin to civilization? What's next? Are hook-horrors going to get retconned into reluctantly territorial ascetics?
I think they started with World of Warcraft, then in the Drizzt books, some orcs were portrayed as civilized. Later, this portrayal was retconned back and forth without clear reasons. I guess they absolutely want to move away from Tolkien's vision, where orcs symbolized industry ravaging nature and had nothing to do with black people, Mexicans, or any race at all. Elves were otherworldly creatures more akin to Nordic people. Now, you get African American trans female-to-male elves with mastectomy scars. I'm not even making that up as you saw already.
It started in the Forgotten Realms with Grey Orcs. Mountain Orcs, the OG d&d Orcs were the classic "pig faced" brutal rapist Orcs (yeah, thats where your half orc PC came from), then they introduced Grey Orcs to the Forgotten Realms setting via a portal to a world full of hyper religious Orcs (somewhere near Thay in setting) which were more "civilized" and allowed a player to be a full fledged Orc without being a rapist.

As per usual, you can thank 3rd edition for their inclusion, and eventual metamorphosis into a "poor oppressed minority".
This sounds like another case of getting your hobby invaded by women.
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
13,606
Location
Behind you.
It started in the Forgotten Realms with Grey Orcs. Mountain Orcs, the OG d&d Orcs were the classic "pig faced" brutal rapist Orcs
In that aspect, I think it goes further back to Drizzt being a good Drow ranger, and being super cool to where they added melee and dual wielding to rangers. It blurred the cut and dry line of "this group is evil" towards #NotAllGroup thinking. It went from the rare exception, i.e. an individual, to a more wide sweeping thing when it comes to villainous creatures. It also stems from the shift from making a realistic villain with understandable motives to the newer trend of sympathetic villains. Look at Ron Howard's "The Grinch" where he became the Grinch because he was bullied for being different. Disney can't make a live action villain adaptation now without resorting to that.

But really, the recent push for orcs being "just people" stems from the whole association with orcs being black people. Here's a Wired article from 2021 on the subject. Here's a piece from NPR from 2020 in light of the Summer of Love.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,500
I find it funny that orcs were depicted as savage rapists, thoroughly evil and violent, and some libshit thought "Wow it's literally black people!"
 

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