DA2 has leaked

[Volourn]

"Which I said I didn't want, in another post. "

You say it but you don't mean it. The game gives you plenty of hints that some bad shit could happen. The fact that it doesn't spell it out entirely is a fukkin' good thing.

 

[ortucis]

I thought the problem with that Bethany thing was how hard the game tries to make you feel about your choice. So much forced drama. Choose to not take her and Bethany throws a fit, choose to take her and she dies and it was somehow all your fault. Even Varric goes "Yeah" when asked if the champion got her sister killed.

Makes sense, right? You're responsible for the deaths of everyone. You're the player. You're doing the choosing. Even though your sister is an adult consenting to come along despite the dangers. Then later on when Bio decides that the player has already felt the effects of their amazing C&C enough it stops being your fault and somehow starts being Bartrand's fault.

What a shitty game.

There wasn't really any drama (for me). I told her that I wouldn't go if I had the choice and she accepted without any bitching (said something like "if you think that is a good idea" while looking dissapointed.. then fade out).


TBH, I thought the companion friend/rival system was actually implemented better than ME or DA:O. You didn't feel like every decision you took made you a asshole in someones book. In fact, after every dialogue I expected a +10 Rival or +10 Enemy popping up but that hardly ever happened despite team mates airing their views. It seemed like instead of controlling your decisions they treated you as a team leader and accepted everything but major decisions (which affected them directly).

Also, first half of DA2 is retarded and the game only got interesting later on with templars showing up in the story. Reminded me of Risen, first half good, second half retarded.

 

[J_C]

Makes sense, right? You're responsible for the deaths of everyone. You're the player. You're doing the choosing. Even though your sister is an adult consenting to come along despite the dangers. Then later on when Bio decides that the player has already felt the effects of their amazing C&C enough it stops being your fault and somehow starts being Bartrand's fault.

What a shitty game.

I hated this in the demo. When my brother/sister suddenly attacked the ogre by him/herself, and got killed, the mother asked me, how could I let that happen. Excuse me if I have a stupid sibling who charges at a monster without waiting the others. What should I do, hold their hands?

 

[yes plz]

What I find most hilarious about the reaction towards DA2 is how much better people seem to think Origins was. As if DAO had no filler combat, as if it had the greatest story in the world, as if its sidequests were meaningful and well written, and as if its gameplay was extremely deep and tactical.

Both games are crap. Peeking in on the GameFAQs boards, though, people are acting like DAO was some sort of perfect holy grail that DA2 desecrated. It's great.

 

[Havoc]

What I find most hilarious about the reaction towards DA2 is how much better people seem to think Origins was. As if DAO had no filler combat, as if it had the greatest story in the world, as if its sidequests were meaningful and well written, and as if its gameplay was extremely deep and tactical.

Both games are crap. Peeking in on the GameFAQs boards, though, people are acting like DAO was some sort of perfect holy grail that DA2 desecrated. It's great.

So? DA:O is still better than DA2. It's still like: eating broken glass is worse than eating shit.

 

[Jools]

Makes sense, right? You're responsible for the deaths of everyone. You're the player. You're doing the choosing. Even though your sister is an adult consenting to come along despite the dangers. Then later on when Bio decides that the player has already felt the effects of their amazing C&C enough it stops being your fault and somehow starts being Bartrand's fault.

What a shitty game.

I hated this in the demo. When my brother/sister suddenly attacked the ogre by him/herself, and got killed, the mother asked me, how could I let that happen. Excuse me if I have a stupid sibling who charges at a monster without waiting the others. What should I do, hold their hands?

Which kinda led me to my complaints about Bethany's demise.

Leandra has been a whiny bitch throughout the game so far. She blamed me for Carver's death (which, as you point out, is ridiculous, as the player isn't really given the chance to intervene). Bethany seems to have her own will and seems to be happy to tag along into the derp roads, and then I thought "oh, at last a character that has some kind of will and isn't just a drone waiting for input from me". So I thought her fit upon our departure for the DR was just her being on menopause. Actually, I misjudged the "hints", and thought that something would happen to mom while left behind on her own (killed or sold into slavery by dodgy uncle or something like that), so I was happy to leave her to her (hopefully horrible) fate.

 

[yes plz]

So? DA:O is still better than DA2.

In what way(s), exactly? The only thing I can think of that Origins did even somewhat better is combat. Everything else was the same level of mediocrity.

 

[kris]

FFS Stop your bullshit. Your mother pleads for you not to bring you. You are told the Deep Roads are dangerous. The scene with Wesley at the beginning also hints at the danger of the taint being there. To say there aren't warning signs THAT BAD THINGS MIGHT HAPPEN IF YOU BRING SIBLING WITH YOU IS LAME.

This is one of the best examples of actual C&C in any game.

Does Bethany have some special sickness that make her receptive for the blight? Why is none else in danger? Why can't you do something about it? (Like if she avoids injuries...) No, it is just forced, it has to happen. Having it good would be to make it a gameplay moment. But this "blight" apparently only happens a very few times for "story reasons". Just shows how they want to make great movies on the level of the phantom menace.

But yeah, they should at least be praised for having different outcomes.

Bethany has three outcomes:

1)Joins the Circle;
2)Dies at the Derp Roads;
3)Becomes a Warden;

Wouldn't that mean...

1)You lose her
2)You lose her
3)You lose her

In that case there is no consequence. I mean apart from the letters you get from your alive sister. Which they will probably kill in a cutscene anyway because that was all ASOFAI was about.

 

[racofer]

Bethany has three outcomes:

1)Joins the Circle;
2)Dies at the Derp Roads;
3)Becomes a Warden;

Wouldn't that mean...

1)You lose her
2)You lose her
3)You lose her

In that case there is no consequence. I mean apart from the letters you get from your alive sister. Which they will probably kill in a cutscene anyway because that was all ASOFAI was about.

TROLL!

You lose her differently which is what DA2 is all about - emotional engagement with your companions.

End of line.

 

[Lesifoere]

I got more emotional engagement out of DoW2 than DA:O.

 

[Jools]

I got more emotional engagement out of DoW2 than DA:O.

Precisely. The game seems to try hard to face the player with C&C and emotional content and dramatic outcomes, but fails at making the player grow attached to people, because of a number of factors rather than because of a single massive flaw.

Spoiler

Even the death of mother later in the game is catered in such a forced (and again kinda gratuitous) way that at the time I just shrugged. That miniquest would have actually been a good subject for a longer quest chain and good emotional engagement but alas, is instead wasted: mother is missing>follow trail of blood>find zombie mother>put mother out of her misery.

So many C&C!

Also, FFS, why does everyone have to die in this game? Is this how Bio conceives grimdark? Just kill everyone around the PC and for some reason have the game world blame him/her. Roger!

 

[Jaesun]

I'll ask nicely, but could you guys try to put stuff in spoiler tags.

 

[Havoc]

Get me out of the Land of Prosper... then I will not spoil shit. Blackmail, bitch!

 

[J_C]

Also, FFS, why does everyone have to die in this game? Is this how Bio conceives grimdark? Just kill everyone around the PC and for some reason have the game world blame him/her. Roger!

Kill every relative. Fuck every companion. --> emotionally involving, mature game.

 

[Jools]

I'll ask nicely, but could you guys try to put stuff in spoiler tags.

Whoops. My apologies.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Makes sense, right? You're responsible for the deaths of everyone. You're the player. You're doing the choosing. Even though your sister is an adult consenting to come along despite the dangers. Then later on when Bio decides that the player has already felt the effects of their amazing C&C enough it stops being your fault and somehow starts being Bartrand's fault.

What a shitty game.

I hated this in the demo. When my brother/sister suddenly attacked the ogre by him/herself, and got killed, the mother asked me, how could I let that happen. Excuse me if I have a stupid sibling who charges at a monster without waiting the others. What should I do, hold their hands?

Tbh, you can't ask a mother to think straight if a ogre kills her kid in front of her. Shit, I was often blamed for not having cat-like reflexes and holding my brother in mid-air when he tripped as a kid, and he only got bruised knees out of those falls. Since Hawke was pretty much the leader of their group, she blames him for not being awesome and flipping out on the darkspawn, saving everyone.

 

[DraQ]

I thought the problem with that Bethany thing was how hard the game tries to make you feel about your choice. So much forced drama.

Possibly, because while I haven't played the game, this instance of C&C looks pretty decent of paper - at least by the standards of rigidly scripted CYOA C&C, so whatever is horribly wrong with it must be part of the execution rather than idea.

 

[markec]

What bothers the most is the not having an option of a different ending besides death or abandonment of a family member. Its not that I care for a happy ending but the lack of choice outcomes feels forced on the player, since no matter what you do ending is the same. What they should have done like in example of you mother quest is add quests/decisions to do during earlier chapters that could save her life. Like that murder suspect who if you let go and also combined with some other choices could have lead to her surviving.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Also, FFS, why does everyone have to die in this game? Is this how Bio conceives grimdark? Just kill everyone around the PC and for some reason have the game world blame him/her. Roger!

Kill every relative. Fuck every companion. --> emotionally involving, mature game.

Consider this stolen/Abused now by me!!!

 

[Jigawatt]

I'll ask nicely, but could you guys try to put stuff in spoiler tags.

I'm sure I've seen a million posts by you saying you will absolutely never play DA2

 

[pocahaunted]

To be fair the mother does apologize later on for being a whiny bitch and doesn't hold you responsible for the random sibling's death.

 

[Jaesun]

I'll ask nicely, but could you guys try to put stuff in spoiler tags.

I'm sure I've seen a million posts by you saying you will absolutely never play DA2

To be honest, I'm morbidly interested in what the fuck DA II is actually like, as much as like when one day Invisible War was on sale for really fucking cheep on Steam (just to see if it really WAS as bad as they say).

Since I don't pirate games, many years from now, and if a 4.99 sale comes up for it, I might finally give it a go.

also:

Spoiler

The President is a COMPUTER!

 

[DraQ]

Does Bethany have some special sickness that make her receptive for the blight? Why is none else in danger? Why can't you do something about it? (Like if she avoids injuries...) No, it is just forced, it has to happen.

Because it's a CYOA consequence, not a mechanical consequence.

Itz like this thing DraQ was talking about - want good C&C? Try to implement as much of it as possible as mechanics rather than scripting. The best way to build good, engaging, story-driven RPG is to build a mechanically complex sandbox first, then develop the desired story in it. Otherwise, the best ou can hope for is CYOA, it may even be an extremely good CYOA - like PS:T, but it won't be anything more.

 

[waywardOne]

So? DA:O is still better than DA2. It's still like: eating broken glass is worse than eating shit.

there's a minimum threshold below which all is shit, saving me from having to compare different types of shit. both DAs are below this threshold.

 

[kris]

Does Bethany have some special sickness that make her receptive for the blight? Why is none else in danger? Why can't you do something about it? (Like if she avoids injuries...) No, it is just forced, it has to happen.

Because it's a CYOA consequence, not a mechanical consequence.

Itz like this thing DraQ was talking about - want good C&C? Try to implement as much of it as possible as mechanics rather than scripting. The best way to build good, engaging, story-driven RPG is to build a mechanically complex sandbox first, then develop the desired story in it. Otherwise, the best ou can hope for is CYOA, it may even be an extremely good CYOA - like PS:T, but it won't be anything more.

Well, the reason it is her and only her is two reasons.

1. They think it makes it a better story and more engaging by killing off family.

2. They wrote the rest of the game in a way that only one specific person can die/vanish.

Otherwise they could even have some cutscene were you can make a choice of who is put in danger. Like "Save that hireling XXX!" You chose... Fenris and he ends up dying.

______________-

Now the quest were you go into the fade is kind of cool, because who you take with you really change that one.