DA2 has leaked

[Havoc]

The stupid thing... is that they're so blind to their choices, it makes my retarded. Merrill for example... she's so dumb. I just want to poke my eyes everytime she speaks.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

The stupid thing... is that they're so blind to their choices, it makes my retarded. Merrill for example... she's so dumb. I just want to poke my eyes everytime she speaks.

Eh, I already said that, and say again: Merril is an extreme examplre of pandering to male animu-loving audience. As is Fenris, just for female yaoi-loving m/m fanfic writing demo.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So far the personal quests don't seem to require much trust, i.e. nothing that would require them to open up to someone they don't feel strongly about. It's more like "sometimes people really need help and you happened to be available". This time companions are handled a bit differently. Instead of sitting in some camp/ship, they have their own "lives" and have places where they live/hang out. So, if you need them, you go there and have a chat with them, and if they need something, they ask.

For example, that Isabelle chick is drinking in a bar most of the time. She asked me to do her friend a favor. He lost his cargo to some raiders. So, you go in and kill the raiders, turns out the cargo was a deadly poison, you get a choice to hand it to the friend or tell him that he's a dirty swine.

In other words, nothing epic and very personal. The quests fit the nature of the game where you run around the city and help people for one reason or the other.

 

[Jaesun]

This time companions are handled a bit differently. Instead of sitting in some camp/ship, they have their own "lives" and have places where they live/hang out. So, if you need them, you go there and have a chat with them, and if they need something, they ask.

Nice. I like that actually.

 

[dextermorgan]

Yep. I admit none of it sounds "retarded", as I guessed it would be. From what I hear the conversations themselves as well as characterization of NPCs is pretty bad but bad doesn't equal retarded.

 

[racofer]

This time companions are handled a bit differently. Instead of sitting in some camp/ship, they have their own "lives" and have places where they live/hang out. So, if you need them, you go there and have a chat with them, and if they need something, they ask.

Nice. I like that actually.

No you don't, Jaesun. Wanna know why?

Because if you have that party member along with you, you cannot talk to him/her until you go to his/her place. This is absolutely retarded. The fucker is right next to you but no dialog option is available anywhere. In fact, no dialog at all is available with party members outside their specific quests. You can't just go have a chat with them as you can do in both ME games and Origins. In Origins you could talk with any party member at any time and discuss whatever you wanted. Some dialogs triggered only when you were back at your camp but those usually happened after you completed a main quest.

DA2? Nothing, nada, niente. Unless the party member wants to speak with you there's no way in hell to have any sort of dialog with them. They merely say something meaningless as if you clicked at a random npc in the city areas.

Also add the fact their quests are exactly like any other fedex quest you would gather from random npcs that you never saw before in your life. There's no chance of failure nor anything to be resolved based on your character skills. You just chose if your Hawke will respond with a Blue/Purple/Red dialog option and that's it.

 

[Volourn]

Wrong.

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Jaesun:

Yep.

The game isn't half as bad as it's being painted on the Codex. Like most games, it does a lot of things right and it does a lot of thing wrong. I'm not far enough into the game to say if the bad outweighs the good.

Mini impressions:

I like the setting. The "mages vs templars" theme is done well. Your sister is a mage and you run into mages (once the word about your willingness to help spreads) quite often. So, on one hand, you see scared mages, people who are being targeted and feared simply because they were born with the gift, on the other, you see what happens when they snap or get taken over. It's definitely not black and white.

The first game introduced the conflict, showing your the "big picture". The second game showed you the conflict from within, from the very bottom of it. The conflict is all around you. People you know are affected by it and take - forced to take - different sides.

The problem (and that's a big problem) is that the dialogues and the "kill some things" quest design are shit. They keep you away from getting immersed into the setting/story as you never become a part of it, no more than your character in Diablo can become a part of that gameworld.

You have no reasons to talk, to learn something, to explore. You get your briefing, check your map to see where you need to go, go there, things get predictably ugly, even if you're told to talk to someone, you fight 2 waves of bad guys, report back.

Often you get some choices at the end - see the example a few posts above. Apparently, after each time jump (after you get into the city, a year passes; 2-3 years passes after the expedition, etc) there are consequences to these choices, which is nice. Now, I've just got back from the expedition, so I haven't experienced any, but it seems like the game's concept is similar to Alpha Protocol - a game that had two gameplay modes - a decent C&C engine and a crappy (imo) popamole shooter. The problem was that these two modes existed separately and rarely overlapped to form a coherent gameplay. I suspect that DA2 took the same route.

The story is another strong point (so far). The combat is challenging on Hard, apparently impossible on Nightmare due to friendly damage, which isn't limited just to spells. Even swinging your sword will hit everyone in its path. The items system - an important part of any action RPG - is crap. The dialogue wheel makes me very, very angry and makes me miss the IWD games.

Edit: the dialogues are actually not bad. I'd even say good. The problem is the retarded dialogue wheel and lines like "I want to be a dragon", which are idiotic attempts to sum up the actual lines, often resulting in you saying something different than what you intended.

Another thing that I like is the NPC involvement. Often you get options (via the wheel) to ask for your party members to step in and do something. For example, a very tough battle can be avoided (not that you'd want to, what with the game being an action RPG and all) if you ask the dwarf to bullshit the target. Another fight can be avoided if you ask your sister to step in and show that she's a mage (not to intimidate but to show that you're on the same side). Things can become more clear if you ask the Warden to take a look, etc.

 

[Joghurt]

The problem with the combat is that there is too much of it. I started playing on hard and was surprised that it was a bit challenging but I had to switch to easy mode some time after the expedition because it was too tedious. I just wanted to kill the mobs as quickly as I can to continue the story. So basically I ended up playing on easy to get through the filler combat and switched to hard at the end of quests where I had to fight the boss fights.

 

[Volourn]

The 'too l=much comabt' complaint is a weak one not ebcause it is false (there's lots of combat no debate there); but because it is no differenjt than any other BIO game. Heck, it's true of EVERY RPG including FO and PST.

 

[kris]

1. The game isn't half as bad as it's being painted on the Codex.

2. Like most games, it does a lot of things right and it does a lot of thing wrong. I'm not far enough into the game to say if the bad outweighs the good.

1. True.

2. I am a little bit further than you and I can only come up with a few things it does right. I think the bad outweights the good quite clearly. Most of all, it is hardly a game. They stripped even more gameplay.

Anyway, i am sure you will pass me now as I just installed a new version of Third age: Total war! Yeah!

 

[Xor]

It sounds like they had some good ideas in spite of all the retarded shit going on. The dialog appears to be just awful, though, moreso than usual in a Bioware game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

2. I am a little bit further than you and I can only come up with a few things it does right. I think the bad outweights the good quite clearly. Most of all, it is hardly a game. They stripped even more gameplay.

How would you compare it to the IWD games?

 

[Volourn]

"They stripped even more gameplay."

How so?

 

[janjetina]

The 'too l=much comabt' complaint is a weak one not ebcause it is false (there's lots of combat no debate there); but because it is no differenjt than any other BIO game. Heck, it's true of EVERY RPG including FO and PST.

It probably has something to do with
a) quality of the combat (you'll rarely hear the 'too much combat'complaint in a game where combat is well implemented)
and
b) proportion of combat in the game

 

[racofer]

Also in case anyone forgot this already, remember the world map for DA2?

It would take place at the Free Marches and north of Ferelden, yeah.... that turned out alright.

 

[Hamster]

I like the setting. The "mages vs templars" theme is done well. Your sister is a mage and you run into mages (once the word about your willingness to help spreads) quite often. So, on one hand, you see scared mages, people who are being targeted and feared simply because they were born with the gift, on the other, you see what happens when they snap or get taken over. It's definitely not black and white.

I liked it at first but it kinda get's overdone as game progresses. It's like every mage is a powder keg that as soon he is even slightly upset will slit his wrists, turn into an abomination and shades will starts spawning in hundreds.

Whats worse is that railroading in quests harms the excitment of getting to choose sides in this conflict.

Edit: the dialogues are actually not bad. I'd even say good.

I'd say dialogue is like a rollercoaster. One moment you are talking to Arishok and it's pretty awesome, but then you walk 5m away and have some cheesy "fix personal life of a stranger" conversation or dialogue wheel derps out. Quality is constantly jumping up and down.

 

[Sceptic]

How would you compare it to the IWD games?

After what I read from you last week, that's a very strange thing to see you post.

Any particular reason(s) the game reminds you of IWD?

 

[Monocause]

1.01 got cracked by the Chinese and so I will finally embrace the new shit. Gonna roll a rogue and give it a spin.

 

[Hamster]

2. I am a little bit further than you and I can only come up with a few things it does right. I think the bad outweights the good quite clearly. Most of all, it is hardly a game. They stripped even more gameplay.

How would you compare it to the IWD games?

Don't know about kris, but I think it will be a pretty pointless comparison.
If we are going for "good for what it is" route than IWD style surely is not what DA2 is.

What DA2 "is" in my opinion is Bioware RPG lite, a game that strips all the complexity of past bio games to attract mainstream audience to elements perceived as most popular in standart Bioware formula:
1)story with some cosmetic choices
2)dialogues
3)companions
4)gameworld
5)fun combat is a plus but main requirement for combat is not to get in the way of points 1-4.

I think it will be fair to compare these 5 aspects of DA2 with all the other bio games.

Edit: i forgot important element - 6)you can either create or significantly customize your character.

 

[Volourn]

"I think it will be fair to compare these 5 aspects of DA2 with all the other bio games."

I agree.

I'm at end of ch so I cna't 100% take into account future stuff that can hinder and help.


"1)story with some cosmetic choices
2)dialogues
3)companions
4)gameworld
5)fun combat is a plus but main requirement for combat is not to get in the way of points 1-4."

1. On par with past ones. Bonus points of it not being collect x items to advance plot or being major 'save the world' style.

2. Dialogues. =. Gets a minus b/c I prefer dialogue lines to wheel. But, the different dialogue styles (helpful, love, hate, greed,a dn the like) are a great addition.

3. Companions are about equal.

4. Game world. Equal.

5. Fun combat is fun. DA2's combat is probably their most challenging to date. Hard combat level is hard. And, nightmare is nightmarish. Injuries actually matter a heck of a lot more so you need to use your injury kits unless youa re closem enough to run back home (which u can't do during deep roads).

 

[Brotherman Bill]

I just played it for two hours.

Not that bad really. It is really quite amazing how the demo and Bioware PR managed to show the absolute worst parts of it. Or maybe that was just the Codex bias...

That said, it mostly tells you exactly where to go, and what to do. You are unable to talk to anyone but the people you're supposed to talk to. Oh, and turn down the goddamn combat difficulty to normal, the encounter design and combat mechanics are not entertaining on any difficulty. As an RPG it fails. But as a mass-effectified version of DA:O I think it is decent so far.

Current verdict: Good for what it is.

 

[kris]

2. I am a little bit further than you and I can only come up with a few things it does right. I think the bad outweights the good quite clearly. Most of all, it is hardly a game. They stripped even more gameplay.

How would you compare it to the IWD games?

Only played the first one and it wasn't yesterday. Also, I am not a big fan of combat heavy games overall, not since I was a kid/youth.

Differences from IWD.

DA2.
+ Some well crafted quests.
+ plenty of conversations
+ Banter
+ Kirkwall is artistically nice (even if it screams Anime/FF)
+ Made interesting conflicts. I particularly like the religion angle
+ Have more of s story

-- Combat is uninteresting and that is a big part of the gameplay, almost all of the gameplay even.
- Combat encounters are horribly crafted, and not varied enough
- Visually uneven (not that I care much)
- No consistancy in their setting (I can make a long list)
- Copy-pasted dungeons.
- Items, equipment dumbed down a lot.
- Classes "forced" down a path in abilities

+- Majority of quests totally uninteresting and solved in the exact way with the same encounter. (but I don't remember well quests in IWD, so maybe same?)
+- I can mention which books they took which part of their setting from.

Thats just a silly list. Down to the wire they made DA2 a little less about combat, but the fact that it still revolves around that inferior part brings it down.

 

[Havoc]

Also in case anyone forgot this already, remember the world map for DA2?

BigAssMap





It would take place at the Free Marches and north of Ferelden, yeah.... that turned out alright.

Two funny things:
1. The Arishok and his people are from Par Vollen. Lol... long way from home, Mr. Pillar of the Qun. A trade between Orlais and Qunari? Nice fucking excuse for having Qunari in the game.
2. Check the boat in which Hawke came to Kirkwall. There's no fucking way that little shit could take such a long way without damage... fuck damage... they should die in the first storm.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How would you compare it to the IWD games?

After what I read from you last week, that's a very strange thing to see you post.

What did you read from me last week? That games should be judged by what they are (i.e. an action RPG) and compared to games of the same sub-genre (i.e. other action RPGs)?

Any particular reason(s) the game reminds you of IWD?

Let's see... Both games are focused on combat, the story and character interaction are only the background for all the killing. The difference between DA and DA2 is the same as the difference between BG and IWD. While combat plays a large role in all these games, DA and the BG games offer more than just combat, whereas in games like DA2 and IWD, killing bad guys and monsters is the main and only meal. The fairly rich backgrounds, instead of more straightfordward diabloesque "listen up, there is an army of monsters between you and the ultimate bad guy; kill them all", shouldn't confuse people and make them think that somehow these games are on par with more complex games.