From Software Dark Souls 3

[Rolk's Drifter]

cvv You have to be trolling.. they aren't instant in DS2 either. Did you not notice the weird grab animation? Plus there are 2 armour pieces and a ring that either mitigate or nullify backstabs.

sullynathan I must have around 1k hours in DS2 and never once needed poise.

I have about 50 hours logged in (nearly all of which was during the first two weeks of its release) and I just can't be bothered to replay it.

I can't help but feel the beginning is super linear, and as soon as I get to the road of sacrifices -> swamp area I just lose all interest.

Yeah I find the beginning boring as shit too. Easy enough to run past though. You won't miss much. For what it's worth I found strength weapons to be pretty enjoyable for a cycle or two. Black Knight weapons especially. If you ever get the urge to try it again, might be worth trying NG+ if you still have your old save.

RE: difficulty. Initially I found DS3 harder because it was the first souls game I played blind. Also it's speed was a problem until I acclimatised. But that's all temporary. The only challenge now is down to obfuscation and cheap shots. When you factor in how low stamina costs are, 360 aiming for everything and how fast recovery times are... it's not a big deal.

RE: DLC. I just want some nice skimpy clothes for female chars. MAKE WAIFU GREAT AGAIN!!

 

[Hyperion]

You also aren't invulnerable for the entire backstab animation in Dark Souls 2, which is HUGE if you're stuck in an unfortunate 2 v 1 situation.

Also, the animation for spears / lances / halberds in 2 is absolutely BADASS and the fact it didn't return for 3 is a mortal sin.

 

[cvv]

cvv You have to be trolling.. they aren't instant in DS2 either. Did you not notice the weird grab animation? Plus there are 2 armour pieces and a ring that either mitigate or nullify backstabs.

I played DS2 a lot less than the other two but it was always instant for me. Now Google is telling me you can evade backstabs with i-frames from high enough agility, which I never had. So it's not the same thing as the hardcoded backstab delay in DS3.

 

[Rolk's Drifter]

cvv You have to be trolling.. they aren't instant in DS2 either. Did you not notice the weird grab animation? Plus there are 2 armour pieces and a ring that either mitigate or nullify backstabs.

I played DS2 a lot less than the other two but it was always instant for me. Now Google is telling me you can evade backstabs with i-frames from high enough agility, which I never had. So it's not the same thing as the hardcoded backstab delay in DS3.

It's not the same but it is delayed. ie not instant.

Either way, backstabs weren't a problem in DS2 if you were cogniscent of them.

You also aren't invulnerable for the entire backstab animation in Dark Souls 2, which is HUGE if you're stuck in an unfortunate 2 v 1 situation.

Also, the animation for spears / lances / halberds in 2 is absolutely BADASS and the fact it didn't return for 3 is a mortal sin.

Yeah I loved them too. Really satisfying!

Spears/lances went backwards imo.

 

[sullynathan]

cvv why don't you explain the specific difference between DS2 and DS3 mechanics that makes the latter not a backstab fest?

Stun locking is a bigger bitch in souls 2 than it is in souls 3. At least in souls 3,you can evade quickly enough and the combat speed is faster.

Bro please, have you even played the game? DS3 has a lot more enemies with long, spammy combos. They do show up in DS2 as well (and much butthurt was had from the vikings in No Man's Wharf and their charge attack), but overall, the spaminess is roughly on the level of previous games. DS2 also has somewhat functional poise, in that if you wear heavy armor and swing around a ultra greatsword, you will poise through a lot of attacks, whereas in DS3 an enemy with a shitty dagger will still stagger you (I'm looking at you, dagger snakemen from Archdragon Peak).

A lot more enemies in DS2 also have functional poise as well, and the damage to stamina ratio on most weapons is less extreme, so the default strategy isn't to spam roll and then mash R1 until the enemy is dead. All in all, there's none of DS3's "spam them before they spam you", which is the crux of my complaint about combat in that game.

Enemies in souls 2 have poise, your character has a worse version. I've complained about this back in the souls 2 thread and it was the whole enemies at the early level that were breaking through my poise even with a straight sword while I had full heavy armor. Yes, you did have to hit them before they hit you because they stun locked like hell and your poise wouldn't stop it like souls 1.

The whole poise problem, even though it's worse in souls 3,should have been seen from afar by everyone who played souls 2. But unlike souls 2,souls 3 combat is faster and sort of accommodates for that.

All in all, I ended up not poising through attacks and I was forced to play as a roll fag throughout the game. I won't compassion too much though because souls 2 had very interesting ways you could build your character.

Yet you completely ignore that souls 2's big problem with enemies is having lots of them gang up on the player. The combat is fine in a 1 or 2 v 1 fight, but when it quickly becomes 5 armored knights vs 1,it shoots itself in the face.

 

[Perkel]

Also, the animation for spears / lances / halberds in 2 is absolutely BADASS and the fact it didn't return for 3 is a mortal sin.

Disagree on that completely.

DS2 was huge downgrade in therms of animations system in place. Most of animations regarding movement were dumbed down (especially that shield block vs super strong hit which send you flying)

I loved playing spears in DS1 then i played DS2 and i instantly noticed that they retardoed spears a bit in therms of animations. Yes they improved aspect of it where character used furthest point from tip in thrust while attacking (unlike 1 or 3) but at the same time they made animations worse and they felt clunkier. Still i had complete playtrough of DS2 using only spears so it isn't like i don't have exp with them in it.

DS3 managed to fix several animation problems introduced few but DS3 nor DS2 can top DS1/DeS animations.

 

[Hyperion]

I was talking specifically for backstabs.

 

[Raghar]

whereas in DS3 an enemy with a shitty dagger will still stagger you (I'm looking at you, dagger snakemen from Archdragon Peak).

They are crazily strong. So stun lock with mere dagger is fine. I had higher problems with theirs head attack.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

cvv why don't you explain the specific difference between DS2 and DS3 mechanics that makes the latter not a backstab fest?

Stun locking is a bigger bitch in souls 2 than it is in souls 3. At least in souls 3,you can evade quickly enough and the combat speed is faster.

Bro please, have you even played the game? DS3 has a lot more enemies with long, spammy combos. They do show up in DS2 as well (and much butthurt was had from the vikings in No Man's Wharf and their charge attack), but overall, the spaminess is roughly on the level of previous games. DS2 also has somewhat functional poise, in that if you wear heavy armor and swing around a ultra greatsword, you will poise through a lot of attacks, whereas in DS3 an enemy with a shitty dagger will still stagger you (I'm looking at you, dagger snakemen from Archdragon Peak).

A lot more enemies in DS2 also have functional poise as well, and the damage to stamina ratio on most weapons is less extreme, so the default strategy isn't to spam roll and then mash R1 until the enemy is dead. All in all, there's none of DS3's "spam them before they spam you", which is the crux of my complaint about combat in that game.

Enemies in souls 2 have poise, your character has a worse version. I've complained about this back in the souls 2 thread and it was the whole enemies at the early level that were breaking through my poise even with a straight sword while I had full heavy armor. Yes, you did have to hit them before they hit you because they stun locked like hell and your poise wouldn't stop it like souls 1.

The whole poise problem, even though it's worse in souls 3,should have been seen from afar by everyone who played souls 2. But unlike souls 2,souls 3 combat is faster and sort of accommodates for that.

All in all, I ended up not poising through attacks and I was forced to play as a roll fag throughout the game. I won't compassion too much though because souls 2 had very interesting ways you could build your character.

Yet you completely ignore that souls 2's big problem with enemies is having lots of them gang up on the player. The combat is fine in a 1 or 2 v 1 fight, but when it quickly becomes 5 armored knights vs 1,it shoots itself in the face.

can you name 5 instances from DS2 where you have to fight 1 against 5 armored knights at once and there is no way around it ? Alonne Knights before Smelter Demon in Iron Keep comes to my mind but thats pretty much it.
inb4 those undead soldiers in FoFG after first bonfire or Royal Soldiers before Royal Sentinels... you dont have to engage all of them like a retard

 

[Hyperion]

Don't forget right before Velstadt there are potentially 4 Ghosts + 3 Syan Knights if you miss the bell-ringing hollow. Or the 4 Ghosts after you jump into the pit in the Catacombs. Probably the deadliest encounter in the game because of all the tombstones boxing you in. Not to mention every sadistic douchebag invades there for that very reason.

2 Mastodon Knights followed by 4 or 5 Royal Guardsmen at the gates of Drangleic.

2 Stone Knights + 1 Ruin Sentinel at the King's Gate bonfire in Drangleic. If you're retarded you get like 3 Sentinels and 5 Stone Knights.

Harvest Valley after the 2nd bonfire you get pitted against 4 of those sickle-wielding, butcher looking fucks.

Earthen Peak shortly before you hang a left to Medusa's room if you rush you get 2 Grave Wardens and 2 Desert Sorceresses. While climbing, there are like 3 mannequins waiting to ambush you right before a bonfire. Right around the spot where you set the windmill ablaze.

Shaded Woods you have to fight the invisible hollows, potentially 3 or even 4 if you try to go too fast.

Heide Tower in the central rotunda you fight 1 greatsword guy + 2 sword / shield guys. If it's your first run you may not know to run past the shield guys to deaggro them.

Don't forget Farmer Al and all his buddies waiting to drop a boulder on your head on your way to Shelob.

There's no shortage of enemy hordes in DS2 if you don't tread carefully.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

Don't forget right before Velstadt there are potentially 4 Ghosts + 3 Syan Knights if you miss the bell-ringing hollow. Or the 4 Ghosts after you jump into the pit in the Catacombs. Probably the deadliest encounter in the game because of all the tombstones boxing you in. Not to mention every sadistic douchebag invades there for that very reason.

2 Mastodon Knights followed by 4 or 5 Royal Guardsmen at the gates of Drangleic.

2 Stone Knights + 1 Ruin Sentinel at the King's Gate bonfire in Drangleic. If you're retarded you get like 3 Sentinels and 5 Stone Knights.

Harvest Valley after the 2nd bonfire you get pitted against 4 of those sickle-wielding, butcher looking fucks.

Earthen Peak shortly before you hang a left to Medusa's room if you rush you get 2 Grave Wardens and 2 Desert Sorceresses. While climbing, there are like 3 mannequins waiting to ambush you right before a bonfire. Right around the spot where you set the windmill ablaze.

Shaded Woods you have to fight the invisible hollows, potentially 3 or even 4 if you try to go too fast.

Heide Tower in the central rotunda you fight 1 greatsword guy + 2 sword / shield guys. If it's your first run you may not know to run past the shield guys to deaggro them.

There's no shortage of enemy hordes in DS2 if you don't tread carefully.

exactly. if you rush in, if you miss this or that, if you dont use alluring skulls or if you just blindly charge. thats not an argument for this DS2 hordes meme. if you are fucking retarded you will have to fight 6 taurus demons at once in Demons Ruins in DS1 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[sullynathan]

cvv why don't you explain the specific difference between DS2 and DS3 mechanics that makes the latter not a backstab fest?

Stun locking is a bigger bitch in souls 2 than it is in souls 3. At least in souls 3,you can evade quickly enough and the combat speed is faster.

Bro please, have you even played the game? DS3 has a lot more enemies with long, spammy combos. They do show up in DS2 as well (and much butthurt was had from the vikings in No Man's Wharf and their charge attack), but overall, the spaminess is roughly on the level of previous games. DS2 also has somewhat functional poise, in that if you wear heavy armor and swing around a ultra greatsword, you will poise through a lot of attacks, whereas in DS3 an enemy with a shitty dagger will still stagger you (I'm looking at you, dagger snakemen from Archdragon Peak).

A lot more enemies in DS2 also have functional poise as well, and the damage to stamina ratio on most weapons is less extreme, so the default strategy isn't to spam roll and then mash R1 until the enemy is dead. All in all, there's none of DS3's "spam them before they spam you", which is the crux of my complaint about combat in that game.

Enemies in souls 2 have poise, your character has a worse version. I've complained about this back in the souls 2 thread and it was the whole enemies at the early level that were breaking through my poise even with a straight sword while I had full heavy armor. Yes, you did have to hit them before they hit you because they stun locked like hell and your poise wouldn't stop it like souls 1.

The whole poise problem, even though it's worse in souls 3,should have been seen from afar by everyone who played souls 2. But unlike souls 2,souls 3 combat is faster and sort of accommodates for that.

All in all, I ended up not poising through attacks and I was forced to play as a roll fag throughout the game. I won't compassion too much though because souls 2 had very interesting ways you could build your character.

Yet you completely ignore that souls 2's big problem with enemies is having lots of them gang up on the player. The combat is fine in a 1 or 2 v 1 fight, but when it quickly becomes 5 armored knights vs 1,it shoots itself in the face.

can you name 5 instances from DS2 where you have to fight 1 against 5 armored knights at once and there is no way around it ? Alonne Knights before Smelter Demon in Iron Keep comes to my mind but thats pretty much it.
inb4 those undead soldiers in FoFG after first bonfire or Royal Soldiers before Royal Sentinels... you dont have to engage all of them like a retard

You named 3 of them already. The ones that bothered me the most are the lost bastille knights. You don't even have to engage all of them, just walk close enough and they all gang on you.

The knights in iron keep didn't bother me, unlike others here, I like the location, design and the knights were easy to be one shotted with my great club.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I think the mobs meme comes from people getting upset at getting rekt by the rather high enemy density in FoFG on their first playthrough. At that time, you have very little healing, are likely at less than 100% max health, and do shitty damage, while struggling against an unfamiliar combat system with punishing stamina mechanics and few iframes on rolls. In that event, the enemy density, even though they generally don't come at you in groups larger than 2 at once (except for the ballista trap), feels very unforgiving and unfair, which is typically the complaint levelled at DS2 in this context. Then, whenever you see a larger group, it just reinforces your internal "so many enemies, how unfair!" narrative, even though said mobs are generally not very threatening past the early game.

 

[sullynathan]

Cowboy Moment you put it so eloquently. Forest of the fallen giants is a bitch the first time through, and it forced me to actually run past enemies. This is coming from someone who is better at these games than the others in this forum.

Granted, this isn't a good enough excuse because the whole gang bang thing continues even after forest of the fallen giants.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

cvv why don't you explain the specific difference between DS2 and DS3 mechanics that makes the latter not a backstab fest?

Stun locking is a bigger bitch in souls 2 than it is in souls 3. At least in souls 3,you can evade quickly enough and the combat speed is faster.

Bro please, have you even played the game? DS3 has a lot more enemies with long, spammy combos. They do show up in DS2 as well (and much butthurt was had from the vikings in No Man's Wharf and their charge attack), but overall, the spaminess is roughly on the level of previous games. DS2 also has somewhat functional poise, in that if you wear heavy armor and swing around a ultra greatsword, you will poise through a lot of attacks, whereas in DS3 an enemy with a shitty dagger will still stagger you (I'm looking at you, dagger snakemen from Archdragon Peak).

A lot more enemies in DS2 also have functional poise as well, and the damage to stamina ratio on most weapons is less extreme, so the default strategy isn't to spam roll and then mash R1 until the enemy is dead. All in all, there's none of DS3's "spam them before they spam you", which is the crux of my complaint about combat in that game.

Enemies in souls 2 have poise, your character has a worse version. I've complained about this back in the souls 2 thread and it was the whole enemies at the early level that were breaking through my poise even with a straight sword while I had full heavy armor. Yes, you did have to hit them before they hit you because they stun locked like hell and your poise wouldn't stop it like souls 1.

The whole poise problem, even though it's worse in souls 3,should have been seen from afar by everyone who played souls 2. But unlike souls 2,souls 3 combat is faster and sort of accommodates for that.

All in all, I ended up not poising through attacks and I was forced to play as a roll fag throughout the game. I won't compassion too much though because souls 2 had very interesting ways you could build your character.

Yet you completely ignore that souls 2's big problem with enemies is having lots of them gang up on the player. The combat is fine in a 1 or 2 v 1 fight, but when it quickly becomes 5 armored knights vs 1,it shoots itself in the face.

can you name 5 instances from DS2 where you have to fight 1 against 5 armored knights at once and there is no way around it ? Alonne Knights before Smelter Demon in Iron Keep comes to my mind but thats pretty much it.
inb4 those undead soldiers in FoFG after first bonfire or Royal Soldiers before Royal Sentinels... you dont have to engage all of them like a retard

You named 3 of them already. The ones that bothered me the most are the lost bastille knights. You don't even have to engage all of them, just walk close enough and they all gang on you.

The knights in iron keep didn't bother me, unlike others here, I like the location, design and the knights were easy to be one shotted with my great club.

vanilla


sotfs


all 2 of them gangbanged him...oh wait no they did not there is a reason why you do not fight them in big empty room. how about using tight corridors and narrow entrances so they cant surround you? "i aggroed enemies from 3 different rooms and than they clubbed me to death...thanks B team" ffs half of those knights stand next to exploding barrels

I think the mobs meme comes from people getting upset at getting rekt by the rather high enemy density in FoFG on their first playthrough. At that time, you have very little healing, are likely at less than 100% max health, and do shitty damage, while struggling against an unfamiliar combat system with punishing stamina mechanics and few iframes on rolls. In that event, the enemy density, even though they generally don't come at you in groups larger than 2 at once (except for the ballista trap), feels very unforgiving and unfair, which is typically the complaint levelled at DS2 in this context. Then, whenever you see a larger group, it just reinforces your internal "so many enemies, how unfair!" narrative, even though said mobs are generally not very threatening past the early game.

this. its like people forget about getting gangbanged in new londo ruins or in the graveyard in DS1. You make run for zweihander and you easily aggro 5-7 skeletons.

 

[sullynathan]

meanwhileInPoland well new londo is one of the worst areas in DS, and the graveyard is piss easy.

Even the guy in the video complains about so many of them. Both videos are examples of players that have beat the game before and know it very well, couldn't expect a new player to know all the short cuts like the first guy

 

[Hyperion]

You named 3 of them already. The ones that bothered me the most are the lost bastille knights. You don't even have to engage all of them, just walk close enough and they all gang on you.

The knights in iron keep didn't bother me, unlike others here, I like the location, design and the knights were easy to be one shotted with my great club.

There are 2 forced hordes in the entire game, The Lost Bastille and Harvest Valley. Both of them give you a VERY obvious and accessible chokepoint. I could understand maybe bitching about their weapons clipping through every substance known to man, but not that. If more than 1 or 2 are right in your face at any point you did it wrong.

This is of course discounting the basilisks in Shaded Woods and spiders in Tseldora. But let's be honest, basilisks are an enemy meant to be fought in groups otherwise they're no risk whatsoever.

Edit:

Even the guy in the video complains about so many of them. Both videos are examples of players that have beat the game before and know it very well

SOTFS was designed for people who already played the game and wanted more of a challenge, so yes. In the original when you see 4 or 5 guys coming at you the reaction is generally, "OHSHITWHATTHEFUCKGETAWAYFROMME" and you find a way to bottleneck them. Not that strange. Short cuts are whatever.

 

[Perkel]

Then, whenever you see a larger group, it just reinforces your internal "so many enemies, how unfair!" narrative, even though said mobs are generally not very threatening past the early game.

Completely false.

First of if your notion is true then doubling or tripling amount of mobs surely wouldn't make game worse right ?

Secondly you are literally exploiting enemy AI to go past most of the mobs because you can't take what is before you unless you exploit AI. I don't know about you but exploiting AI in my book is just poor design. All DS games have this problem but DS2 SotFS goes completely overboard.

Though i don't mind multiple enemies when design behind them is right. Let's say you put 3 sian knights in that arrow room with paining in castle and lock the door unless you beat 3 of them. That would be proper challange like a puzzle to figure it out. There are occasionally cases like this in DS2 (like 3 scythe dudes at same time before castle) but 95% of other stuff is just prone to AI exploitation which btw seems to be expected by devs themselves.

Multiple enemies at the same times is valid design but it needs to rely on design and not on fucking AI exploitation.

One of the best examples of that was in DS1 where you couldn't exploit 2 halabard giants before anor londo cathedra. So you either had to go past them by running or you had to actually fight them at same time and win.

Just after than you had those demons which were placed in such way that again you couldn't exploit their AI and you were forced to actually fight 2-3 of them at the same most of the time or running past them.

Best example of that from DS2 were manekins near bonfire in earthe peak. just 2-3 of them can give you proper challenge at that point of game and they were placed just right so again you couldn't properly exploit their AI

 

[praetor]

Completely false.

nope. you're the one spreading lies and misinformation (as usual)

First of if your notion is true then doubling or tripling amount of mobs surely wouldn't make game worse right ?

proven to be false

Secondly you are literally exploiting enemy AI to go past most of the mobs because you can't take what is before you unless you exploit AI. I don't know about you but exploiting AI in my book is just poor design. All DS games have this problem but DS2 SotFS goes completely overboard.

bullshit. all Souls games are the same as they all have the same basic, stupid AI

Though i don't mind multiple enemies when design behind them is right. Let's say you put 3 sian knights in that arrow room with paining in castle and lock the door unless you beat 3 of them. That would be proper challange like a puzzle to figure it out. There are occasionally cases like this in DS2 (like 3 scythe dudes at same time before castle) but 95% of other stuff is just prone to AI exploitation which btw seems to be expected by devs themselves.

you're an idiot. if they designed a room like that you would be crying here that they did game for for hard's sake or artificial difficulty or some other such notion because you're a muhyazaki fanboy

Multiple enemies at the same times is valid design but it needs to rely on design and not on fucking AI exploitation.

lol. what does that even mean?

One of the best examples of that was in DS1 where you couldn't exploit 2 halabard giants before anor londo cathedra. So you either had to go past them by running or you had to actually fight them at same time and win.

bullshit. you can aggro them 1 at a time, you can exploit them all you want. have you even played DaS1?

Just after than you had those demons which were placed in such way that again you couldn't exploit their AI and you were forced to actually fight 2-3 of them at the same most of the time or running past them.

lolwut? only the platform before the archers forces you to fight 2 of them at the same time (btw, their AI is very exploitable as you can make them fall from the platform very easily before you even touch ground), the rest can be aggroed 1 by 1 if you're not a dumb fuck (which you obviously are, as you have proven time and time again)

plus, what kind of reasoning are you making here? a couple of pages ago you were crying like a little bitch that DaS2 SotFS put too many mobs you couldn't separate (demonstrably false, of course), and now you're praising DaS1 for supposedly forcing you to fight mobs of same enemies at the same time!? (again, demonstrably false, surprise surprise...) so which is it, is fighting mobs of same enemies good design or bad design? or is it just good when muhyazaki does it and bad when everybody else does?

tl;dr: you're a colossal dumb fuck. again.

 

[cvv]

sotfs

for posting Cowboy's video, one of my favourite Youtubers ever.

 

[Murk]

cvv confirmed for subhuman trash

 

[cvv]

cvv confirmed for subhuman trash

Wtf? Just a random outburst of edgy?

 

[Grimlorn]

cvv confirmed for subhuman trash

Wtf? Just a random outburst of edgy?

Probably has to do with this guy playing a magic build and summoning NPCs like a faggot. He sucks too, even with magic.

 

[cvv]

cvv confirmed for subhuman trash

Wtf? Just a random outburst of edgy?

Probably has to do with this guy playing a magic build and summoning NPCs like a faggot. He sucks too, even with magic.

Um, Fightincowboy is one of the best known players in the Souls community. His Souls LPs are among the most entertaining on Youtube. With every game he's doing all sorst of builds, including magic ones. So I don't know who's subhuman trash here but some poeple itt sure are overedgy autists talking out of their ignorant asses.

 

[Hyperion]

I remember this is the video that made me cringe a bit when I came across it. He was clearly a little butthurt over mean youtube commenters and was being an intentionally spiteful, condescending prick about it. I'm sure he's good, but it's the fucking internet man, act like you've used it before.

Oh and his pronunciation of 'Caestus' is stupidity of immeasurable levels.