From Software Dark Souls 3

[sullynathan]

There are a few puzzles like that across the series, can't think of any right now but you know what I mean.

Finding the nameless kings hideout by doing the emote 3 times

Do you mean that path of dragon guesture?

Yea

 

[Damned Registrations]

Salt & Sanctuary is a p. good souls demake and is available on the PC.

This is honestly the only game I've played that comes close. To be fair I never tried lords of the fallen (sounds like irredeemable glitch fest) or Nioh (console exclusive = trash) but none of the other 3D action games come close to this stuff. Actually, Salt and Sanctuary felt closer to Dark Souls than DS2 or DS3 did. Shame it's a tad too easy once you realize how optimal huge fucking swords are. But it at least has the exploration bit down.

 

[Gentle Player]

But there are puzzles in Souls games you simply do not solve yourself. Like the "show your humanity" shit. The only way people figure this out is by accident - fooling around in PvP, playing chameleon with the invader. But first, you have to stand in the water, and second, you can transform into any number of things - I've transformed into a crystal first, a cross second and the humanity only on the third go.

I almost managed to solve this alone. I understood that the white birch tree and its magic branches wasn't just plonked there in the middle of the swamp to look pretty, but I used the branch in front of the door only for nothing to happen except the normal chameleon effect. I didn't think that I actually had to use it in the swamp before heading back to the door.

I also spent far too much time messing around with locusts whilst trying to solve this. The engraving on the door said to "show your humanity", and nearby, in the swamp, you can find that locust headpiece. A strange, isolated headpiece with no special stats and a lengthy description which specifically mentions a connection between locusts and humanity. I was reminded of the Official's Cap from Demon's Souls. Plus the fact that one locust was already non-hostile. So I donned this "hat" and wandered about the swamp, trying to see if any locusts would make friends with me . Please tell me I'm not the only one who did this?

 

[Silva]

By the way, cvv, how can you live liking those series so much and not playing Bloodborne or Demon's souls? I bought PS4 just for Bloodborne and don't regret it at all, and now there is Nioh also

Something Bloodborne does that is unmatched in the series is the deductive quality of the lore. It takes what DS1 did and elevates to the n potency. It's made in such a way that some pieces of lore may have a number of interlockings with other pieces, forming a dynamic jigsaw of possibilities. Not only this is compatible with the lovecraftian tradition of unknowable beings, but also offers a very realistic picture for a chain of events seen from the perspective of a clueless person dropped in the mid of it.

It's the most neat implementation of the storytelling concept Miyazaki explain in that interview (reading books as an infant with limited knowledge of the language and having to fill in the gaps/deducting things by himself).

 

[praetor]

One thing I've always REALLY fucking disliked in Souls games is the "community" nature of some puzzles. Since my wee gamer days playing adventures and old RPGs I've been conditioned with the self-evident fact that consulting guides or walkthroughs is for retards and losers, that you always have to do your best to solve the puzzle yourself. That's actually a whole point of playing a game - to play it yourself, not letting other people play it for you.

But there are puzzles in Souls games you simply do not solve yourself. Like the "show your humanity" shit. The only way people figure this out is by accident - fooling around in PvP, playing chameleon with the invader. But first, you have to stand in the water, and second, you can transform into any number of things - I've transformed into a crystal first, a cross second and the humanity only on the third go.

There are a few puzzles like that across the series, can't think of any right now but you know what I mean.

I suppose the design philosophy here is "someone in the world figures it out eventually and then post it on the interwebz and other people will google it". I get it. But it's retarded and I hate it.

while i mostly agree, you probably picked the worst example for it :D it's probably one of the easiest puzzles to figure out and other than the "you have to transform into the swamp" part, it makes sense (as Gentle Player notes, that white birch tree with 3 branches isn't there to just look pretty, and there's really not many ways you can show your humanity in the game)

Siegmeyer's quest with the "good" ending in DS1 is probably the best example of a puzzle that is nearly impossible to solve yourself. how the fuck would you know that you have to kill all those mushroom-things but one so that Sieg-heil both survives and helps so that you get the best ending... in the fucking great hollow?! that shit's more convoluted than the Dark Souls time-space continuum

 

[cvv]

while i mostly agree, you probably picked the worst example for it :D it's probably one of the easiest puzzles to figure out and other than the "you have to transform into the swamp" part, it makes sense (as Gentle Player notes, that white birch tree with 3 branches isn't there to just look pretty)

Sure, all sorts of things make sense in retrospect. There are multiple white trees in the base game (three I think) and the branches are always there precisely just to look pretty. They never serve any purpose, except you have to deliver one to Gough. And suddenly it's obvious you have to use it?

What I thought when I saw that tree in Ringed City was "Oh shit, Gough is here? Now let's collect those branches and let's find him." THAT would make sense. Even trying to use the branch next to the inscription is already a stretch - what did you expect would happen? Unless you specifically expected you'd turn into a humanity sprite it made no sense whatsoever. And the fact you have to use it in the swamp AND you can turn into many other things instead is completely stark raving bonkers.

And yeah, the thing with Siegmeyer needing to stay above half HP is insane too.

 

[praetor]

while i mostly agree, you probably picked the worst example for it :D it's probably one of the easiest puzzles to figure out and other than the "you have to transform into the swamp" part, it makes sense (as Gentle Player notes, that white birch tree with 3 branches isn't there to just look pretty)

Sure, all sorts of things make sense in retrospect. There are multiple white trees in the base game (three I think) and the branches are always there precisely just to look pretty. They never serve any purpose, except you have to deliver one to Gough. And suddenly it's obvious you have to use it?

What I thought when I saw that tree in Ringed City was "Oh shit, Gough is here? Now let's collect those branches and let's find him." THAT would make sense. Even trying to use the branch next to the inscription is already a stretch - what did you expect would happen? Unless you specifically expected you'd turn into a humanity sprite it made no sense whatsoever. And the fact you have to use it in the swamp AND you can turn into many other things instead is completely stark raving bonkers.

And yeah, the thing with Siegmeyer needing to stay above half HP is insane too.

1. it's a giant, not Gough specifically (unless you have some evidence to prove the contrary)

2. the other 3 denote where he can shoot (and probably other reasons). sorry but assuming that he can shoot through time and space is kind of stupid even considering the "convoluted" nature of Dark Souls time-space continuum

3. assuming that said tree is there for another reason other than looking pretty and serving as a giant arrow bullseye is pretty common sense.

4. putting almost-odd items at almost-odd places so the player knows he has to use them for something is pretty standard practice in Souls. as i said, the only thing i'd concede in this puzzle that is strange and difficult to figure out is the fact you need to transform yourself in the swamp and not somewhere else (and even that could be argued is hinted at as the tree is found in the swamp. i'd disagree with that reasoning, but whatever). that you can transform into multiple stuff is normal as that's how the chameleon spell works, so "cycling" through multiple is fairly common sense (and that's why there's 3 branches there and not just one)

as i said, i agree with your stance, i just don't think you picked a good example

 

[cvv]

2. the other 3 denote where he can shoot (and probably other reasons). sorry but assuming that he can shoot through time and space is kind of stupid even considering the "convoluted" nature of Dark Souls time-space continuum

Through time and space? No, I just thought he is back in Ringed City, hiding somewhere or sleeping, waiting to be activated or some such. Morne is back, Alva is back, Patches is back, Dragonslayer Armour is back but assuming Gough (or giant) could be also back is stupid?

Sorry but your entire analysis is just retrospective rationalization. Plus you haven't really explained why would you want to transform at all, even in front of the inscription? What would be the thought process here? What would you expect to happen?

 

[Arnust]

I thought that you'd find a key Humanity item. Maybe the events at the end making your own Humanity Sprite visible. Makes more sense than using Chameleon in any shape or form, ffs.

Hey, maybe even at least have more to it, like the Priestess' Eye

 

[Perkel]

Ok in the end I like Ringed City, mostly thanks to the area between Ringed Inner Wall and Ringed City Streets. For me personally one of the most memorable areas ever.

Went through it like ten fucking times, kept dying to fat dudes, cursing dudes, fall damage, invaders you name it. The more you die the more impatient you are the more you die, you know the drill. Ok, 11th attempt finally cleared all mobs, including SIX FUCKING FATMEN, all the fire knights and all the trash. 3 estus left. Now where the fuck is the damn bonfire. Arrived to the swamp, seeing some insect things and a giant fucking dude in the distance. Nope, first I gotta find the bonfire. So I go left, climb the ladder, kill one knight, 2 estus left. Oh fuck another one? Is this ever gonna end? Killed him too.

Where is that goddamn bonfire? The path up the mountain with the entrance in the distance looks promising. Just no more knights plz. Oh shit, an invader, are you kidding me? Red phantom slapped me around a bunch but I prevailed. Got a nice hammer too. BUT NO BONFIRE! 1 estus left.

Oh well gotta go back to the swamp and keep looking. So I creep along, avoiding large groups and carefuly sniping the rest with my trusty Millwood Bow. There's the end of the swamp but still no bonf.... A DRAGONSLAYER ARMOR ARE YOU HONESTLY KIDDING ME NOW? Boys I played like I'd never played before. Two-handing my invincible FUGS my rolling was on point. I was shitting myself but eventually I got him, with zero estus left and half HP. So it's not the real Dragonarmor or he'd have smashed my face.

Still no bonfire and I'm not gonna mess with that big dude. So circle back where I came from, past the entrance to the swamp and keep looking along the other wall. The mama insect thing at the stairwell even managed to grab me, bitch. Well you can imagine what I felt when I climbed those stairs with like 10% HP and found the Ringed City Streets bonfire.

This, this is exactly why I've always loved DS. The dread, the adrenalin, looking for the next bonfire with no estus and half HP. It's also rare, the magic happens only once per game per bonfire, unless you suffer amnesia. I realized how fucking criminal the bonfire distribution in DS3 vanilla really is. What a gigantic difference it makes if you can't see the previous bonfire from your next.

You just described what people felt playing Demon's Souls. Not only you had to beat whole level without bonfires but also you had to beat level boss to get that archstone (make that your dragonslayer armor).

Demon's had grasses but still beating hard place you could chew through most of them in no time.

DS1 started decline with crappy bonfires before bosses and DS2 took it to another level with bonfire every 5 seconds. DS3 bonfires are a bit smarter but there are still way to many.

I always felt that Blightown should have only bonfire near lady. Same with Tomb of Giants with Nito only bonfire.

 

[cvv]

DS1 started decline with crappy bonfires before bosses and DS2 took it to another level with bonfire every 5 seconds. DS3 bonfires are a bit smarter

What? Lolno. DS3 bonfires are way more retarded. Now you even have one in every single boss arena. As if the game isn't bad enough.

 

[cvv]

Btw just watched Lobos' stream with his blind LP, he literally ran out of all his branches trying to solve the humanity puzzle. Even with the stream giving him hints he used like six branches in the swamp before turning into the humanity sprite. What a retarded puzzle.

 

[Arnust]

Demon's Souls outset all of that with the meaningless Durabilty and 99 of each herb plus Spices. And if you manipulate tendency it's even easier (you have to be really, really stupid to get PBWT accidentally).

In DS3, you have 100% useless bonfires. Period.
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/file/Dark-Souls-3/1460821446_I8vAARP.png

Pointless and removing interesting challenge are: 1/2, 56, 5, 6/7, 50, 45, 14, 22, 16, 27/30/29,26/31, 40, 39. Those are eithe rmaking a stetch trivial, are arrow-distance from one another or just serve no purpose. And I'd prefer a Primal Bonfire-like one way bonfire at dead ends. That way you'd find out that something was up at Oceiros' place.

Oh, and that's without DLC.

 

[Gentle Player]

One thing I've always REALLY fucking disliked in Souls games is the "community" nature of some puzzles. Since my wee gamer days playing adventures and old RPGs I've been conditioned with the self-evident fact that consulting guides or walkthroughs is for retards and losers, that you always have to do your best to solve the puzzle yourself. That's actually a whole point of playing a game - to play it yourself, not letting other people play it for you.

But there are puzzles in Souls games you simply do not solve yourself. Like the "show your humanity" shit. The only way people figure this out is by accident - fooling around in PvP, playing chameleon with the invader. But first, you have to stand in the water, and second, you can transform into any number of things - I've transformed into a crystal first, a cross second and the humanity only on the third go.

There are a few puzzles like that across the series, can't think of any right now but you know what I mean.

I suppose the design philosophy here is "someone in the world figures it out eventually and then post it on the interwebz and other people will google it". I get it. But it's retarded and I hate it.

while i mostly agree, you probably picked the worst example for it :D it's probably one of the easiest puzzles to figure out and other than the "you have to transform into the swamp" part, it makes sense (as Gentle Player notes, that white birch tree with 3 branches isn't there to just look pretty, and there's really not many ways you can show your humanity in the game)

Siegmeyer's quest with the "good" ending in DS1 is probably the best example of a puzzle that is nearly impossible to solve yourself. how the fuck would you know that you have to kill all those mushroom-things but one so that Sieg-heil both survives and helps so that you get the best ending... in the fucking great hollow?! that shit's more convoluted than the Dark Souls time-space continuum

Agree that Siegmeyer's quest is awkward to say the least, but I think the very worst was probably also in DS1: unlocking Kaathe and the Darkwraith covenant. I would never in a million years have figured this out on my own. You either have to slaughter an NPC for no reason and continue progressing in an area likely to be beyond your level if you haven't yet finished Anor Londo, or you have to obtain the Lordvessel and then complete New Londo normally without talking to Frampt.

This is counter-intuitive and unnatural in a game where ordinarily you will want to talk to NPCs as much as possible, particularly after a major event, as they will yield clues or at the very least bits of interesting story. Never mind the fact that Frampt gives you Souls in exchange for the otherwise useless coins you can find, the bulk of which you find in Anor Londo from mimics so naturally the player would go to him straight after the Lordvessel (the player should already know that Frampt gives good Souls for these coins due to the early copper coin from Petrus). I'm all for major aspects of games being secret and easily missed on a first playthrough, but this one was particularly unnatural and contrived. In my view one of the worst of the major secrets in Souls games, though DS1 is still my favourite game overall.

 

[Sturmgewehr44]

DS1 was the Souls game I played the most and I too had to look up how to access the Darkwraith covenant and the Dark Lord (Best) ending despite running through the game multiple times without guides, other than that it's still the best Souls game to me outside of Demon's Souls, probably due to the theming, story line, and general feel of the game.

 

[cvv]

Agree that Siegmeyer's quest is awkward to say the least, but I think the very worst was probably also in DS1: unlocking Kaathe and the Darkwraith covenant.

Yeah, kindda. Tho I think the chances of you unlocking Kaathe is orders of magnitude higher than figuring out the humanity puzzle. I almost did it. After getting the Lordvessel I transported back to Firelink and thought "before imma go place the thing imma finish the area with the ghosts first, god knows what's gonna happen when I place it". But for some reason I never got all the way to the Four Kings, maybe I stopped playing for a few days, forgot and went straight to Frampt afterwards or I kept dying to the fucking ghosts and got frustrated, dunno. But if I went on I'd have unlocked Kaathe.

I'm trying to recall other bullshit moments like this but can't think of any. But there were quite a few, especially in DS1. Generally trying to find NPCs is pretty bullshit, you'd have to sweep every nook and cranny of the world every hour to bump into some of them.

 

[Orma]

Next giant dad ?
Don't know why he is using estoc though, isn't raw Astora straight sword better?

 

[praetor]

Next giant dad ?
Don't know why he is using estoc though, isn't raw Astora straight sword better?

nah. ASS is good when RAW (for "quotes out of context") as a starter weapon or as buffable melee for casters.

estoc is bestoc in PvP. was top tier since DS1 and still is today in DS3 after all the patches.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Next giant dad ?
Don't know why he is using estoc though, isn't raw Astora straight sword better?

nah. ASS is good when RAW (for "quotes out of context") as a starter weapon or as buffable melee for casters.

estoc is bestoc in PvP. was top tier since DS1 and still is today in DS3 after all the patches.

Ass is no longer a good choice.

Go for Raw Broadsword.

 

[cvv]

Nah, broadsword too short, more like a long dagger. Estoc all the way, cleans the house in PvE and PvP.

 

[Gentle Player]

Heard that Astora's was nerfed recently. In nonsensical From fashion, an ordinary raw longsword or broadsword is now better for the early game. Which makes Astora's utterly pointless.

 

[Malpercio]

DS1 started decline with crappy bonfires before bosses and DS2 took it to another level with bonfire every 5 seconds. DS3 bonfires are a bit smarter but there are still way to many.

What? This i factually false. Unless you got them backwards.

 

[toro]

 

[Vorark]

^ This is a thing of beauty.

TRC seems to be a fun DLC.

 

[Elwro]

Gentle Player , as for coins being useless in DS1, I just want to say that they are a very fun element of the online gameplay, but yes, figuring it out required cooperation of the community.

Dropping coins in your world makes vagrants appear in other people's worlds. I've encountered them a few times. Think of them as gifts you can send to an unknown fellow player, to help others with struggles similar to yours


But guys, poise in DS3. Thought it was just turned off. Now I read that there's something called 'active poise' which affects 'hyperarmour' and in general stuff that is NOT DISPLAYED fucking anywhere. Is there a readable guide to it on the net? I only found some reddit tables and a few pages of commentary on the wiki (and reddit) which were clearly not written with explanation in mind.