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From Software Dark Souls 3

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by Makabb, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. Jedi Master Radek Arcane

    Jedi Master Radek
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    Nameless King is down! What a great Boss!
     
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  2. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    so what is yours overall impression of the game? its lore and atmosphere? compared to ds1?
     
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  3. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    Well, production values were certainly through the roof. No jank like in DS2.

    As far as tone and atmosphere, i prefer the original by far. Just the fact everything in DS3 is recycled from the previous games left a bad taste in my mouth. It felt very cynical, like they didn't really care about the world, just answering to the complains about DS2 in the most condescending way possible (meanwhile DS2 added a ton of original features and ideas, many of which shit sure, but at least they tried). Ho, here's Andre, from the original. Haha, wasn't he great (he was, but god damn, really)? And here's Rhea of Thorolund, again, and the chick from DS2, and Patches again, who betrays you not once, but twice! Haha, can't get enough of his antics, amrite?

    The only NPC i liked was the little thief guy. Everything else was very nondescript. The swamp pyromancer, bleh. The mage, bleh. Karla, bleh. And so on.

    But apart from the recycled NPCs, there are other problems. The biggest is the level design. Now, it's not bad per se, the areas are well constructed with their own unique visuals and unique enemies, just like the previous games. But it doesn't feel like a real place, like it did in DS1. Just the fact you can warp between bonfires from the get go makes it very hard to feel attached to the world, or to think of it as a real place. It was a bad idea in DS2 and it's even worse in DS3. I think actually this is a general theme with the game in general, that while DS1 tried to make it feel like you were roaming a real place, DS3 is more "meta" oriented, more about making things a bit easier and convenient for the player as opposed to create the illusion of a world that needed to be known and explored. Just the fact everything you need is in one location, something they inherited from DS2, removes some mystique from the areas you are navigating. I guess this was just answering to the complains of people who felt it was too boring having to walk around all the time just to get to this vendor or NPC but come on.

    I will also say Lordran just felt more coherent from a thematic point of view. Sure, DS3 has better graphics and they went to town adding ton of details the original couldn't have because of the simpler engine, but DS1 felt more distinctive all the same for me. This may be a case of too much of a good thing actually. In DS1, getting to Anor Londo for the first time was a spectacular moment. Even the layout of the entire world map has this idea that the lower you go, the drearier the ambient becomes, with swamps, tombs, and that infernal nightmare that is Lost Izalith (which was clearly unfinished and easily the worst area in the game, but in a sense it sort of fits considering you are in the lowest depths of Lordran), where as you have to go upwards to reach Anor Londo hence the celestial atmosphere (emphasized when you meet the amazing chest lady derp).

    In DS3, you start off in the Lothric cathedral and end up there again by the end of the game, after going through ton of gothic castles and cathedrals, including Anor Londo again. It really started to feel routine at one point. I get it, muh metroidvania, right? Except DS1 didn't feel like that. Again, too much meta in DS3. Too much of "we gotta have Gothic shit 'cause Castelvania amright" where as the cathedral in Anor Londo is a unique place that has a justification from a setting's point of view.

    Lastly, the levels themselves felt less interesting from a gameplay point of view. Each area in DS1 presented a unique challenge pertaining to the level itself, and not just from the enemies you found there. This is actually something DS2 has done better than DS3. In both DS1 and DS2, there's some areas that are remembered with particular loathing and dread. Blighttown, or the Tomb of Giants, or the Shrine of Amana in DS2, and so forth. But i don't even remember any area form DS3 by name. Maybe that swamp place with those guys with the branches, but meh, aside for the crabs it wasn't really all that. Again, the areas are well designed, they look great, they are fun, but it all feels rather routine, and the fact everything is so damn linear makes it worse too.

    Now, as far as gameplay goes, the emphasis on twitch combat certainly allowed for some intense boss fights. I'd say the bosses are definitely the best thing about the game. Still, just the fact they basically kept the code from Bloodborne and didn't bother to change it to make the game feel more in line with the Dark Souls style bothers me. I'm not even sure it was a design choice it just felt like, ok, this is the engine, it works well, why bother mess with it. In DS1, you could finish the game with any build you wanted. Even the DLC bosses, which share some similarities with the DS3 bosses, could be done in various ways. I heard you can actually tank Manus and Artorias has an obvious weakness to heavy weapons and can probably be face spanked i'd imagine with some Giant Dad kind of build. Lastly, you can pretty much block everything Kalameet does if you have high enough stamina or stability. But in DS3? Just roll brah. The amusing thing is that the game doesn't actually emphasizes light builds either, because you get the same amount of invincibility frames with medium roll so really, longer roll may be useful but there's actually no point to care and i think longer roll is actually a disadvantage for PvP. So basically all strategy and variety on how to build your character is out the window. So pump health and damage, stay below 70% equip load and you are done. Ho, magic and miracles? Lmao ain't got no time for that just roll roll roll.

    Now with all that said, i still say DS3 is a great game and miles ahead of the popamole garbage we have today, but i liked the first one better, even if the latter is more "evolved" in some aspect with harder bosses, more fluid animations etc. I mean DS1 is from 2007 some technical innovation is to be expected, but i still prefer it, just because it felt more inspired to me.

    So DS1 stays on top and the real battle is between DS2 and DS3, and to be honest it's not a clear cut victory for DS3. I mean yeah the game is just better designed, some of the jank in DS2 was just ludicrous, but i don't know, aside for the bosses DS3 wasn't particularly memorable for me, while DS2 for some strange reason was, even if i just remember it for the shit it did wrong lmao.
     
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  4. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    Also Onion Knight (but he is OK and his questline is even more interesting than the DS1's one).

    Of other things about design, yes, I completely agree.
     
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  5. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    Yeah, the Onion Knight was worthy of the original, even if they overplayed their hands by having him basically solo Yorm in the end.
     
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  6. praetor Arcane

    praetor
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    i agree with literally everything you wrote, Lyric Suite , except for the last part.

    to me, DS2 is the clear cut winner vs DS3 because of the build variety, the tons and tons of cool and unique weapons, and the DLCs are, imo, better designed than anything in DS3. i also like better the slower paced gameplay. and i think once that Sty3d dude finishes (if ever) his graphic overhaul, it will look significantly less janky and the torches will have some actual fucking use
     
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  7. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    Maybe. I wasn't trying to claim a real victor between the two. DS3 is more bland (aside for the bosses) but has better production values while DS2 is more varied and original but has some jank. I could easily give the victory to DS2 but all the crappy bosses i had to go through before getting to the good ones left me a bad taste in my mouth. Next time i'll bring all the summons not the least since you have to to follow the story lines. In a way, it's not a clear cut choice between the two simply because they excel and suck in opposite areas. Whatever DS3 did bad DS2 did better and vice versa. That's why it's a toss up depending on which aspect of the game you are thinking of at a given moment.

    All i'm going to say is that i remember my journey through DS2 better, and i just finished DS3. I mean i'm still butthurt about that frozen level with the horses months later. I barely remember anything from DS3 aside for the bosses.
     
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  8. Zlaja Arcane

    Zlaja
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    Eh, it was released in 2011 (and Demon's Souls was in 2009).
     
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  9. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    The fuck, i wonder what i was thinking of. Damn my rotted brain.

    Ok, 2011, but it was hampered by peasant console hardware! I heard people getting 20 FPS in Blighttown lmao i'm glad i played it on superior PC master race. I currently have it at 4k downscaling at 60 FPS. Glorious.

    BTW, jokes aside i'd say i'm not entirely sure i liked some aspects of the graphics in DS3. I mean, they were more advanced, but was it me or it was actually harder to make shit out at times. Sort of cluttery if you ask me, and that pop out effect the shit was that all about?
     
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  10. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    DS3 level design is magnitudes better than DS2 and a bit worse than DS1. The thing about "not being real" is on purpose though. Whole DS3 is basically worlds colliding lorewise due to lords not linking fire and it going almost out. It makes sense. Even you as player are different this time as you are just ash from some previous men who linked fire called by flame itself rather than some wanderer or undead struck by curse.

    DS3 has that Muhyazaki effect where things have explanation instead of "let us take elevator up from windmill and arrive in molten lava kingdom".

    I wish we got DS2 with original Kingdoms build on top of other kingdoms original design.
     
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  11. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    like literally
    Show Spoiler


    lite.jpg
     
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  12. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    Muhyazaki just ordered designers to make a bunch of nonsensical levels and then came up with "worlds colliding" explanation in the last week of development.
     
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  13. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    And it is not just land but time as well as provided by dark firelink shrine, nameless king/gwin king, painted world story of DLC. Lorewise i like it as much as DS1 because it expanded shitload lore in tasteful way without being too expansive for its own good, just enough.

    Painted world imho is best part of DS3 lorewise, because it shows you completely separate world trying to detach themselves from main world creating their own cycle trying to survive incoming end of cycles in main world.

    If there ever will be Dark Souls 4 it will be probably entirely in painted world as main world gone dark completely which is probably cannon ending going by game events much like linking of fire was cannon ending for DS1.
     
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  14. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    Well even if that's true i'm not sure i like it. I prefer my games to be somewhat more grounded. Never been a fan of "lol random".
     
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  15. praetor Arcane

    praetor
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    no, it is not. DS3 is even more linear than most of DS2. particularly the DLCs shit aaaaall over DS3. that you're so dumb you can't tell the difference just because "them shortcuts! ya can see the next gothic cathedral in the distance from this gothic cathedral! muh muhyazaki!" is pretty telling...
     
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  16. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    I guess this is matter of a taste. I also prefer much DS world to DaS worlds.
     
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  17. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    I have yet to play Demon's Souls, so i had to leave it out of the equation. It actually works pretty well on the emulator now but i'm waiting to upgrade my CPU to make sure i get a smooth experience. Right now it works mostly at 60 FPS but halts into a crawl when rolling into barrels for instance.
     
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  18. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    Well it is much more classic take but imho it works better. Basically part of the world was taken by "fog" and outside world lost contact with it, some traversed and got back from it telling stories about terrible demons so all kinds of adventurers with different motives tried to uncover what happened.
     
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  19. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
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    While there are criticisms of DeS mechanics in light of later games, when taken as just a good old quest game, it still performs soundly. KF and ST were not combat clinics by any means, neither were the majority of action rpgs and action adventure games I can think of. And as an atmospheric fantasy adventure, DeS has few rivals
     
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  20. Tyrr Literate

    Tyrr
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    Did anyone recently played DS3 on PC? Is it save to play online or have "modders" ruined multiplayer?
     
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  21. Silverfish Educated

    Silverfish
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    Later on, sure. DS3's early - mid game is pretty open, though. The undead settlement has two main paths that intersect at various points, the Farron swamp can be tackled straight through or circumnavigated from either direction, the catacombs lead into the both the demon ruins and the Boreal Valley, the Valley itself splits off into two very different paths about halfway through and rivals Bloodborne in its ability to circle back onto itself at different points. From Anor Londo on, it's pretty much a straight shot, but DS1 is guilty of that too.

    This though, is undeniably true and I'm not that even that big on DS2's dlc.
     
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  22. RoSoDude Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    RoSoDude
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    What? Dark Souls let you go down four distinct paths after getting the Lordvessel and tackle the Lord Souls in any order you wished. Granted, some of those paths weren't all that great, but it certainly wasn't linear.
     
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  23. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    if by "open" you mean "there's a bunch of dead-ends" then sure.
     
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  24. Silverfish Educated

    Silverfish
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    Fair enough, but I've always thought of the second half as linear because, while you can nab the Lord souls in any order, the "not quite Metroid" design of the first half is all but gone.

    Dead ends that lead to bosses, upgrade materials, covenants and spell vendors.
     
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  25. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    It's okay, I didn't encounter any of these guys for months. Lag of connection is much more serious enemy.
     
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