Game News Deathfire Cancelled

[mondblut]

In a world of hopelessly vitriolic message boards and web site comment sections filled with unqualified hatred

I wonder...

RPG CODEX
>we kill dreams

 

[FeelTheRads]

Does not scale to your dreams.

 

[Minttunator]

Oh well - it was probably going to suck, so it's not a huge loss in that regard. It's faily likely that Guido will stop attempting to make RPGs now, though, which is sad.

 

[DraQ]

Nethermore nevermore.

 

[DemonKing]

Gudio said:

Thank you for the great ride. It was fun and exciting, and we could not have done it without you!

Done what? Gone through a failed Kickstarter effort, tried pledges and a reduced scope and still come up with nothing? Is Guido seriously thanking the fans for wasting months of his life and not funding him a cent?

 

[ZodoZ]

I'm just one guy obviously:
First glance at DF pretty much killed the interest for me.
It had same ol same ol DnD stats that were being used from days when Gary Gygax was around. Whats up with that? Instant buzz-kill.
The character portraits were odd little attempts at photorealistic silliness. Just stop, okay? Everyone's Gaydar went off after seeing those.
That Guido guy said he had some kind of poll for the name? Excuse me? Deathfire? Seriously? Maybe for a Retro B or C movie involving some cheeseball announcer proclaiming "Scantily Clad Vixen saved at the last moment by Herculean Muscle Bound Neanderthal" "See it in Full Color!"
Thankfully the World is undergoing spring cleaning via an angry broom named "Internet". Burn Middle Management, Burn.

 

[Overboard]

The newer the fag, the edgier the comment.

 

[RK47]

*insert vitriolic comments of glittering hatred here*

 

[Blaine]

The newer the fag, the edgier the comment.

In this case, the newfag is spot-on. Generic fantasy compound words (ex: frostfire, bladestorm, stonereaver, thundercrag, greyhart, etc.) should mostly have been retired in the 1980s, when they were actually still cool. "Deathfire" sounds like something a fourteen-year-old discovering D&D for the first time would come up with. Also, and perhaps most importantly, rehashing the same generic fantasy shit with a slight twist or two for the umpteenth time gets pretty tiresome—at least it does for me. Finally, while indeed graphics don't matter (unless the UI is fucked up or some such), if your game is to include art then the art direction should be attractive, or competent and consistent at the very least, rather than off-putting.

This isn't a word-for-word quote from from Guido Henkel (I've forgotten the exact wording), but the essence is absolutely identical. During one of his pitch videos, he said the following (paraphrasing): "I like dragons. Every RPG has to have a dragon in it, right?" Real confidence-inspirer, that one.

Of course, a cRPG can still be very good or excellent despite a cringeworthy title, a generic fantasy setting, mediocre art, and a dubious pitch. You're not going to get truckloads of free crowdfunding if that's what you're trying to sell, though.

 

[HiddenX]

The Codex drowns in a cesspool of hatred, edginess & doomsaying. Just a few years ago the Codex veterans would have supported Guido blindly. -> Decline.

 

[Overboard]

a cringeworthy title, a generic fantasy setting, mediocre art.

Nice attempt to pass off your own subjective opinions as objective observations. Guido is a bad salesman, so the project failed. It has nothing to do with the setting or art, and the effect of the title is at best negligible.

 

[ghostdog]

I wonder...

RPG CODEX
>we kill dreams

DarkUnderlord I think we have a new slogan for the Forums section.

or :

>Vitriolic message boards of unqualified hatred.

 

[majestik12]

The Codex drowns in a cesspool of hatred, edginess & doomsaying. Just a few years ago the Codex veterans would have supported Guido blindly. -> Decline.

Correct. Everything that had a chance to become a decent RPG was supported during development. The shift of mentality seems to come from the new generation of posters who got into RPGs after The Decline has come, and so didn't have a chance to experience the Golden Age. Basically, now we've got a typical post-apocalyptic situation: remnants of the Old World struggling to retain last bits of humanity vs nihilistic wasteland raiders.

And to make things worse, there's Kickstarter. The very moment an RPG nerd gets an impression that he has a say, he starts playing armchair producer with all ensuing bullshit in the vein of "what are the USPs and do they appeal to the core audience, herp derp". Also, Kickstarter is a cornucopia of promises which people are happy to buy into. The problem is, they treat promised Incline as it has already happend and good RPGs are already in abundance. So everyone starts to behave like a spoiled brat writing the projects off for every miniscule reason imaginable. Pauldrons too big? Game is shit, no support. Pauldrons too small? Game is shit, no support. Not "isometric" with "tactical turn-based combat" and "c&c"? Game is shit, no support. No devs of FO, PST or Arcanum on the team? Game is... yeah, right.

It all started at the end of Vault Dweller Era and now has come to the logical conclusion with the arrival of the Infinitron Era. I, for one, welcome our new wasteland raider overlords.

 

[Athelas]

cringeworthy title, a generic fantasy setting, mediocre art

This was literally the Project Eternity pitch.

 

[theSavant]

It has nothing to do with the setting or art, and the effect of the title is at best negligible.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

 

[Blaine]

Nice attempt to pass off your own subjective opinions as objective observations.

They're absolutely objective. Generic fantasy is highly derivative of earlier works from decades prior, and this is a quantifiable phenomenon, since we have those works available to us as a basis for comparison. Whether or not an individual dislikes derivative generic fantasy is certainly a matter of personal taste, as I indicated at the end of the relevant sentence. On the subject of artwork, unless you happen be the sort of aesthetic relativist who believes that all art is equally good because it's appreciated by someone, somewhere, there is a marked difference to be seen between bad art, amateurish but passable art, merely good art, excellent art, and great art. Regardless of the art's school, style, or medium, the artist's skill and use of colors, perspective, shadows, and other fundamentals will be apparent to art critics or to anyone with a discerning eye. In realistic portrayals, the aesthetics of an artwork are generally directly proportional to the artist's skill. While I'm not a professional critic, in my opinion Deathfire's art falls between "amateurish but passable" and "merely good." That judgment may be my opinion, but the concept that slightly amateurish art didn't do the project any favors is simply logical. Deathfire's artwork certainly isn't excellent or great, because a simple Google search will return fantasy art that makes Deathfire's look like a child's coloring book.

That said, you're probably correct that the title's effect was negligible, but it's still an objective truth that slapping two nouns together to make a fantasy-sounding name is a trope that's been used for years. In my opinion, it's also intellectually lazy and eyeroll-inducing. They're all right when used sparingly and judiciously, but Deathfire... whatever.

Guido is a bad salesman, so the project failed. It has nothing to do with the setting or art, and the effect of the title is at best negligible.

Yeah, nah. If the artwork were fantastic, the setting unique and interesting, and the title compelling or evocative, Deathfire would surely have fared better than it did, which of course is what we're arguing about. Your agenda, by the way, is completely transparent: "Guido's a bad salesman, so all those retards out there who require pretty pictures and fancy speeches failed to recognize his genius, and passed it over. It's not his fault—it's theirs." While there's some truth in that, it's far from the whole story as you'd like to believe. There's also the fact that he was bandwagoning on Kickstarter at what I'd argue was an inopportune time, using the same "I am legend and worked for Black Isle" pitch that everyone had just seen in Project Eternity (and where they'd already spent their allowances).

cringeworthy title, a generic fantasy setting, mediocre art

This was literally the Project Eternity pitch.

For the most part, yes. However, the art was at least a cut or two above Deathfire's, the setting promised somewhat more than the usual number of tweaks seen in generic fantasy RPGs, the whole pitch was MUCH better presented, Obsidian is an actual successful working developer with some admired RPGs under its belt, there's more than one celebrity developer in residence there, and they came first. Also, the title really isn't that bad and is a working title.

Despite the fact that I tend to loathe generic fantasy in principle, it's pleasant enough if experienced in the context of a good cRPG. I pledged to Project Eternity, and I pledged to Deathfire, too—$250 and $100, respectively. T:ToN got $2,000 from me, mainly for striving for a semi-unique setting, story line, and elaborate C&C (and the art's damned nice too, as was the pitch), a choice I'm especially happy about now that they've gone turn-based.

 

[Irenaeus]

I was really burned out by his attitude after the Thorvalla debacle.

 

[MicoSelva]

Pity. It was a promising game, much moreso than Thorvalla. The pitch was pretty bad, though (even if also much better than Thorvalla's). I'd gladly play it, if t came out. Although I will not miss it either, not the way I will mourn Chaos Chronicles, anyway.

The main problem is that this whole project did not really inspire confidence in any area. It had an ok art, ok (looking) system, ok premise, etc. Nothing really outstanding. I've only beome interested in this after watching Guido's interview with Matt Barton, which was much more informative and interesting than the KS page.

 

[Lady_Error]

The fact that it would have been Grimrock with NPC's, story and different locations is outstanding in itself. Tell me just one other game that does that.

The in-party banter is pretty outstanding too.

 

[Blaine]

Tell me just one other game that does that.

In the context of party-based, first-person dungeon crawlers? Numerous Wizardries, various Might & Magic titles (still in production), the Etrian Odyssey series (still in production), the Shin Megami Tensei series (still in production)....

Arguably, most don't feature a plethora of NPCs or truly in-depth stories, except for the Shin Megami Tensei series, which certainly does.

I'd like to have had the opportunity to play Deathfire, and I'm not jeering its failure, but it was a mediocre effort at the start.

 

[Infinitron]

The fact that it would have been Grimrock with NPC's, story and different locations is outstanding in itself. Tell me just one other game that does that.

The in-party banter is pretty outstanding too.

I am not sure that Guido would appreciate the comparison with Grimrock, since Deathfire IS NOT A DUNGEON CRAWLER.

 

[Blaine]

...Deathfire IS NOT ANYTHING AND NEVER WILL BE.

Fixed.

 

[Lady_Error]

Tell me just one other game that does that.

In the context of party-based, first-person dungeon crawlers? Numerous Wizardries, various Might & Magic titles (still in production), the Etrian Odyssey series (still in production), the Shin Megami Tensei series (still in production)....

Wizardry is dead, Etryan Odyssey is an anime-style console title, only Might & Magic X has some similarities.

 

[Blaine]

Doesn't matter if they're anime-style and for consoles—I'm not a big anime fan either, but Japanese console developers are still producing genuinely old-school incline. Don't lump them in with DICE and EA just because it's fashionable to hate consoles on the Codex.

SMT is a proper hard dungeon crawler that includes multiple locations, numerous fleshed-out NPCs, and an in-depth storyline. You have your one game—don't try to tack on more requirements now.

 

[Lady_Error]

I disagree. Anime-style is not a proper RPG in my book.