Demise: Ascension - is anyone else here playing it?

[mondblut]

Each guild has a specific entrance, you can't take companions with you or other characters from your party.

That's not exactly true. If you have more than one eligible character, you can bring them in one by one and then make the run as a group.

 

[Dorateen]

One of the things I enjoyed most about Demise: Acension, and earlier games of a similar style, something I think new players might take for granted or be unaware: you can not only create the characters for your party, but an entire roster of characters. These can be swapped in and out of the active party, or even assembled for the possibilty of running multiple parties in a dungeon. Notably in Demise, you could make tome-fetcher parties, rescue parties, and in the case of the guild crest runs, parties of same class characters to complete those missions.

It was a wonderful throwback to this feature of classic role-playing games.

 

[Belthazor]

Explorer is good for ALL Resist spells?

No. Explorer gains access to the following Resist spells: Resist Cold, Resist Draining, Resist Fire, Resist Disease, Resist Paralysis, Resist Poison, Resist Stoning, Resist Magic.
It misses: Electrical Resistance, Mental Resistance and Resist Acidity.
See: https://www.city-of-marlith.com/ascension/spells/list-guild-explorer.html

Can I reach 100% resist with him?

No. Resists from spells give a maximum of 95% resistance.

Or which class is for the best resist?

Sorcerer or Warlock. Both gain full access to all resist spells.
Sorcerer gets to cast them for the least spellpoints (cheapest).

My party is Thief-Ninja-Paladin-Warrior.
I think I need an Explorer for moving, a Sorcerer for mass damage.
Anything else?

Paladin has healing: Minor Heal and Heal.
But Cleric has much stronger and cheaper heal spells: Minor Heal, Heal, Restoration, Raise Dead, Mass Heal and Resurrect.
See: https://www.city-of-marlith.com/ascension/spells/list-guild-cleric.html.

I do NOT want a Magi form charming. Because that is not fun. Charming is very complicated annoying process.
Seeking for hours a monster. Found it. Reduce its HP. Charm. Keep binding. I skip it.

You can level up a separate character (not in the party) as a Mage.
You can use this character from time to time to fulfill the "bring back a monster as a companion" required quests, by charming the specific monster and selling it to the confinement.
Your quested character can then buy it from the confinement to fulfill its quest.

Once you have the spell Life Domination you do not need to worry anymore about losing bindings because that spell will bound the monster for life (bound level 100).
Only when you die, will the monster break free and be lost.
See: https://www.city-of-marlith.com/ascension/spells/life-domination.html

 

[Belthazor]

That's not exactly true. If you have more than one eligible character, you can bring them in one by one and then make the run as a group.

Correct.

But to join up inside the special guild training area each character needs to be a current member of the guild.
If you have a party of 4 and want to meet up in the Ninja's special guild training area, each character needs to be a Ninja.
Most parties consist of characters from different guilds for obvious reasons (shared power and to avoid penalties).

 

[Belthazor]

One of the things I enjoyed most about Demise: Acension, and earlier games of a similar style, something I think new players might take for granted or be unaware: you can not only create the characters for your party, but an entire roster of characters. These can be swapped in and out of the active party, or even assembled for the possibilty of running multiple parties in a dungeon. Notably in Demise, you could make tome-fetcher parties, rescue parties, and in the case of the guild crest runs, parties of same class characters to complete those missions.

It was a wonderful throwback to this feature of classic role-playing games.

Amen to that.

And don't forget the specific characters you create who never enter the dungeon.... just to hold those cursed items, quest-items, codexes, grimoires, librams and treatises.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Lol. How many games do I do have such alts?

 

[LostHisMarbles]

Lol .. alts

Yeap.. it's unfortunately why i gave up on it.
It goes beyond the autistic, even assuming one's willing to put this much time on it.
* Looong time ago though, i think it's had a full expansion since then? His website really isn't helping. Basics don't seem to have changed though.

A shame, because it's (for me) one of the most alluring/interesting titles out there. Still.
I get re-tempted just by reading this thread, but no fucking way.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, we fans wait for the next chapter. I need to buy a physical edition of this and Devil Whiskey. The physical of Mordor was well worth it.

 

[mondblut]

And don't forget the specific characters you create who never enter the dungeon.... just to hold those cursed items, quest-items, codexes, grimoires, librams and treatises.

If only the concept of "warehouse" has existed...

 

[tindrli]

And don't forget the specific characters you create who never enter the dungeon.... just to hold those cursed items, quest-items, codexes, grimoires, librams and treatises.

If only the concept of "warehouse" has existed...

i always kept my cursed amd other items in bank. however i never passed lvl 150 so i dont know if bank of 4 char will not suffice later on

 

[mondblut]

And don't forget the specific characters you create who never enter the dungeon.... just to hold those cursed items, quest-items, codexes, grimoires, librams and treatises.

If only the concept of "warehouse" has existed...

i always kept my cursed amd other items in bank. however i never passed lvl 150 so i dont know if bank of 4 char will not suffice later on

It will not, hence the need to create dummy characters to store extra shit

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

And don't forget the specific characters you create who never enter the dungeon.... just to hold those cursed items, quest-items, codexes, grimoires, librams and treatises.

If only the concept of "warehouse" has existed...

i always kept my cursed amd other items in bank.

The biggest fault of the player is when he sells the cursed items. I have learned that in the hard way.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

And don't forget the specific characters you create who never enter the dungeon.... just to hold those ..., codexes, grimoires, librams and treatises.

Why do you need to hold the codexes, grimoires, librams and treatises?
Cannot you give them to the guilds?

This seer-thing is ridiculous. Why is he lying? He says wrong coordinates. IRL my party would go back and kill him for that.

 

[Belthazor]

Why do you need to hold the codexes, grimoires, librams and treatises?
Cannot you give them to the guilds?

Yes, you can.
But everytime Decklin releases a new version and you update your game and system you lose all donated spellbooks. So that's a reason for Revenge to hold on to them.

For Ascension:
Most spellbooks can be turned in for multiple guilds. If you're currently not a member of a guild that can also use the spellbook, or you don't want to change guilds (unequipping cursed items) just to donate the spellbook, and you don't have another character who is a member, it's convenient to just dump the spellbook on a mule and come back to it later.

For example the Codex of Abolishment teaches Abolish Undead to the Paladin, Warlock and Cleric guilds.
Say you're currently a member of the Paladin guild. You decide to donate the Codex to the Paladin's guild. At Paladin guild level 23 you'll get access to the spell.
Now say you find another copy of Codex of Abolishment. What to do with it?
You don't want to just drop it and you can't sell it for money to the store.
And you're currently not a member of the Warlock and Cleric guilds.
What do you do with the item? You keep it in storage until the day comes that a character becomes a member of the Warlock or Cleric guild.

Then comes the next problem. So many spellbooks and so many guilds to turn them into.
Does guild x already has spellbook y?
See https://www.city-of-marlith.com/ascension/spells/list-donated-spellbooks.html to help you make your own overview and store it via a code.

This seer-thing is ridiculous. Why is he lying? He says wrong coordinates. IRL my party would go back and kill him for that.

Watch his message, when he says he is almost certain that creature x is at given coordinates, the game generates a monster at or near the coordinates. Do a sweep of the area.
Otherwise ignore his advice and pay him again for a second try (third, fourth....).

An alternative is to visit your library. Per monster and item it contains an entry where it was last found. You can also check online on my site it contains 5 entries last found per monster/item (not complete... still adding stuff).

Eventually you'll find a Codex of Enemies to donate at the Explorer or Magi guild.
This will teach you the spell Beast Search making you a Seer.
And eventually you'll find a Grimoire of Artifacts to donate to the same guilds that will teach you Item Search. Now you can look for monsters that carry the item you search for.

 

[Belthazor]

Spells
Some statistics about spells in Demise: Ascension.
There are 140 spells in the game.
70 spells (50%) were "lost" by the monster raid on the town and guilds.
Those lost tomes consist of 29 codexes, 19 grimoires, 3 librams and 19 treatises.
And they need to be found 126 times (because of guild overlapping spells).
4 spells (2.86%) can only be cast from items: Fate, Identify, She'tal, Uncurse.


Artisan learns 3 spells ( 2.14%) and requires 0 ( 0.00%) lost tomes.
Warrior learns 1 spell ( 0,71%) and requires 0 ( 0.00%) lost tomes.
Paladin learns 12 spells ( 8,57%) and requires 1 ( 8.33%) lost tomes.
Ninja learns 3 spells ( 2.14%) and requires 0 ( 0.00%) lost tomes.
Villain learns 18 spells (12.86%) and requires 10 (55.56%) lost tomes.
Explorer learns 33 spells (23.57%) and requires 11 (33.33%) lost tomes.
Thief learns 5 spells ( 3.57%) and requires 2 (40.00%) lost tomes.
Barbarian learns 3 spells ( 2.14%) and requires 0 ( 0.00%) lost tomes.
Magi learns 54 spells (38.57%) and requires 22 (40,74%) lost tomes.
Sorcerer learns 55 spells (39,29%) and requires 34 (61,82%) lost tomes.
Warlock learns 64 spells (45,71%) and requires 27 (42.19%) lost tomes.
Cleric learns 48 spells (34.29%) and requires 19 (39.58%) lost tomes.



Spells are divided in 23 spell classes:

1. Banish: 2
2. Bind: 4 6
3. Charm: 16 22
4. Cold: 6 28
5. Damage: 7 35
6. Dispel: 3 38
7. Electrical: 6 44
8. Element: 5 49
9. Fire: 6 55
10.Heal: 11 66
11.Kill: 6 72
12.Location: 7 79
13.Magical: 5 84
14.Mind: 4 88
15.Morkal Alchemy: 5 93
16.Morkal Damage: 6 99
17.Morkal Death: 4 103
18.Morkal Healing: 2 105
19.Morkal Movement: 2 107
20.Movement: 10 117
21.Protection: 2 119
22.Resistant: 11 130
23.Visual: 6 136

Items only: 4 140


See https://www.city-of-marlith.com/ascension/spells/index.html for more information.

 

[Belthazor]

Added casting via items to all spells.
See for instance:

• Burning Air
• Hail Storm
• Word of Death

From the 140 spells at least* 90 spells (64.29%) can be cast via items.
Even a Warrior who only learns Establish Mystic Portal can cast many spells via items.
* Haven't found all items yet.

Items can cast their spell at a fixed Spell Level (FSL) or at Caster Spell Level (CSL).
CSL means don't look at the item for the spell level to use, but look at the current spell level of the caster.
There is one exception: if you don't know the spell or a spell needs a spellbook (codex, libram, grimoire or treatise) to be donated first, so that the guild can teach the spell to its members, spell level 0 or 1 is used.
So items that use CSL cast the weakest spells in the beginning of the game, but potentially cast the strongest spells, because the caster can reach SL 255 and beyond.
If you're not a spellcaster avoid the CSL-items and use the FSL-items instead.
If you are a spellcaster and know the spell you can use both items to save your spellpoints, initially use the FSL-items and when your SL surpasses the FSL use the CSL-items.

Spells are divided in combat and non-combat spells.
Combat spells can only be used in combat.
Non-combat spells can only be used outside of combat.
Combat spells are capped at spell level 255. Possibly Decklin increases the spellcap to 749 for Revenge, but that remains to be seen.
Combat Spells have a change to fizzle when you're at peace with monsters. High end spells like Word of Death and Impending Doom tend to fizzle more.
To circumvent fizzling, use shift-p to pause, press f to fight, then cast your spell and then shift-p to unpause.
Non-combat spells aren't maxed at SL 255, they continue to develop.
For instance the spell Map Area begins at a 5x5 radius and keeps expanding to 6x6, 7x7 etcetera beyond SL 255.
Another example is Heal which keeps getting stronger.

You can't heal yourself or your partymembers while in combat, because healing spells are classified as non-combat spells.
That's where Morkal Spells come in.
When cast they suck the life force from monsters and add it to the caster in the form of extra health. Upto, but not exceeding your maximum hitpoints.
In some (dangerous) fights this is the only way to survive and weaken the monsters first and get their numbers down.

You will lose the spells cast on you (buffs) if you fail to open an Anti-Magic Trap or accidently step on a Extinguish square or return to the City.
In some rooms you can't cast spells, these are anti-magic rooms and have blue swirling lights to indicate this.

Spells initially cost a lot of spellpoints to cast and aren't very efficient. Especially the Resistant Spells.
But as you keep leveling up and increase your spell level, spells get cheaper and cheaper to cast AND become more efficient.
That is a beautiful design and mimics the career of a beginning caster upto an very advanced caster.
Each spell has its own spellcost formula.
And different guilds with access to the same spell can have different spellcosts.
For instance Sorcerer and Warlock can learn and cast resistance spells but Sorcerer can cast them for fewer spellpoints.
The spell level at which the spell is learned will be the lowest cost in spellpoints.
For example:
Hail Storm is learned by Sorcerers at (guild) level 11, that's Spell Level 6.
So Hail Storm's minimum cost in spellpoints to cast is 6 (unless you cast the spell via an item of course).

Your guild level (GL) divided by 2 + 1 = your SL.
For Example:
A character with GL 1 has SL 1.
A character with GL 2 has SL 1.
A character with GL 3 has SL 2.
A character with GL 4 has SL 2.
A character with GL 5 has SL 3.
etcetera.

Just like characters, monsters also have resistances to Fire, Cold, Electrical, Mind, Disease, Poison, Magic, Stone, Paralysis, Drain and Acid.
And where characters can have a maximum of 95% resistance, some monsters have full resistance. For example Dragons tend to have 100% Fire Resistance.
There are even monsters that are totally magic immune, one around level 10, and more much deeper, so you'll need to bring your fighting skills or companions with you.
But most monsters have weaknesses to some resistance(s). You can exploit this.
For example you can use Cold Spells on Fire Resistant monsters (unless of course they also have high resistances to Cold).
Spells from the Cold Class are: Cold Blast, Ice Spray, Hail Storm, Arctic Storm, Arctic Blizzard and the strongest Frigid Wasteland.
Each spell has a initial damage (A) and a curve or powerpart (B). The power part tells how the spell damage develops when your spell level increases.


Cold Blast = 15/3
Ice Spray = 15/6
Hail Storm = 20/11
Arctic Storm = 25/16
Arctic Blizzard = 30/26
Frigid Wasteland = 40/46


Using Average Damage formula*: A + (B x SL / 10).
* before considering monster resistances.

Cold Blast at SL 10 should do
15 + (3 x 10 / 10) =
15 + 3 = 18 average damage

Cold Blast at SL 50 should do
15 + (3 x 50 / 10) =
15 + (15) = 30 average damage


SL 1 50 100 150 200 255
Cold Blast 15 30 45 60 75 92
Ice Spray 16 45 75 105 135 168
Hail Storm 21 75 130 185 240 300
Arctic Storm 27 105 185 265 345 433
Arctic Blizzard 33 160 290 420 550 693
Frigid Wasteland 45 270 500 730 960 1,213

Table with average damage cold spells.


You can cast spells by:

• doubleclicking on a spell in your spellbook
• selecting the spell in your spellbook and clicking on the pink/purple orb
• dragging the spell to a buffer (0 to 10) and type Shift-1 (1) to Shift-0 (10)
• typing 'c' and the unique spellname.
  For instance to cast Resist Fire, you type: cresist<space>f<enter>
  To cast Blue Flame you type cblu<enter>

You can cast spells via items by:

• dragging the item to a buffer (0 to 10) and type Shift-1 (1) to Shift-0 (10)
• rightclicking an item and select Use Item from the popup menu
• type u<item-slot>
  For example when you have the item Sash of Shades equipped in item slot #10, you type u10<enter>

 

[Belthazor]

Talking about spells...
Decklin released a special build (B121) for Revenge recently which has the limit for (combat) spells raised from 255 to 749!!
Woohoo!

 

[tindrli]

seems like im only one who have acsension but unable to install it

what is revenge?

 

[Belthazor]

Volume I Demise: Rise of the Ku'tan - 32 levels 45x45, released in 2000.
Volume II Demise: Ascension - 36 levels 90x90, build 721 released in 2015.
Volume III Demise: Revenge of the Tavern Keeper - 45 levels 90x90, probably released in 2023.

 

[tindrli]

Volume I Demise: Rise of the Ku'tan - 32 levels 45x45, released in 2000.
Volume II Demise: Ascension - 36 levels 90x90, build 721 released in 2015.
Volume III Demise: Revenge of the Tavern Keeper - 45 levels 90x90, probably released in 2023.

Does revenge needs to be bought separatley or is not for sale yet or if you have ascension its free?

 

[Elwro]

How do you buy it? Last time I remember jumping through some hoops at Gamer's Gate or wherever it was, I'd like to avoid this

 

[Belthazor]

Volume I Demise: Rise of the Ku'tan - 32 levels 45x45, released in 2000.
Volume II Demise: Ascension - 36 levels 90x90, build 721 released in 2015.
Volume III Demise: Revenge of the Tavern Keeper - 45 levels 90x90, probably released in 2023.

Does revenge needs to be bought separatley or is not for sale yet or if you have ascension its free?

As I understand it there will be 3 separate Demise games to buy:

• Demise: Rise of the Ku'tan Reboot, which is the original game from 2000
  + all the bugfixes from Ascension and Revenge
  + some story tweaks (like closing the portal no longer changes your character's alignment)
  + monster models from Revenge
  + over 1000 monster conversations
  
  
• Demise: Ascension gold release, contains volumes I and II
  + extra bugfixes
  + monster models from Revenge
  + monster talk
  
  
• Demise: Revenge of the Tavern Keeper, not yet for sale, contains volumes I, II and III.
  + one massive dungeon
  + 9 extra dungeon levels
  + extra territory fleshed out for levels 1 - 36 (like Expanded Dwarven Mines, expanded Forest on 14)
  + 10 new Adventures
  + new puzzles/mysteries to unravel
  + new music
  + new items
  + Te-Waza's rebalanced
  + new monsters
  + new spells: for example SpellStrike enabling you to hit monsters now matter how many tiles they are away (but in the same room)
  + new superpowers
  + lots of new cool features:
  • like being able to equip 2 rings
  • possibly innate hitpoint regeneration
  • being able to recover drained hitpoints over time
  • once you've progressed far enough in the storyline/quests you'll be able to increase your levels before you pin.
    For example in the beginning of the game you can gain xp for 2 levels, later on 3, 4, 5....
  • Spinners rotate much faster

There was a time when if you had bought Ascension you could mail Decklin and ask for Revenge beta.
You would get access to Revenge and could test and play it.
I don't know what the deal will be once Revenge is released.


Besides the Demise series there will also be:

• Mordor: The depths of Dejenol Reboot - which would allow you to install and play the game on Windows 10 and 11.
• Mordor II: Darkness Awakening Reboot (based on version 0.992 with the 3d dungeon)

 

[felipepepe]

Dude makes Pierre look like a sales expert.

 

[tindrli]

so , any release date for revenge? as i understood apart from people who were in BETA there is no other playable version

 

[Belthazor]

Check out the changes made to the automatic map system.

Here's a screenshot of the Barracks from Ascension:

And here's a screenshot of the Barracks from Revenge:

For those that don't know: the Barracks are part of dungeon level 2.
In it's chambers it contains a quest item you'll need to find and bring back for the 2nd Artisan's quest.

Check out the differences:

• In the left most room the Shrine above the healing fountain now has it's own icon.
• In the room to the right the shrine above the spinner has an updated icon.
• In the 3rd room the bunks/beds are now visible.

There are a lot of these little enhancements made in Revenge.