Demon's Souls Remake

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

That's the average length of a Souls game, around 25 or 30 hours.

Sure if you're a gaming God and don't care to collect every single little secret. On replays absolutely but for a first timer those numbers are unrealistic as all hell.

my very first ds1 playthrough was around that with dlc included. it was my first from game as well. same for 2 and 3.

Okay, what did you think of Great Hollow, Ash Lake, and Painted World on your first playthrough?

 

[soutaiseiriron]

Yeah, it's not that hard compared to later games, although I've only done DS1 and 2.

They're really pushovers compared to the shit From cooked up in later games.

Basically. Flamelurker and maybe King Allant are the most later-souls-game-like bosses this one has. Then again, the heals in this are a big part of the reason why it's not that hard, little chance I would have done King Allant first try without this game's liberal heals. Maybe I would have, maybe I would have just played in an entirely different, safer way instead, who knows. In a sense it's not that bad of a thing to have more heals since the alternative will mean players just rat, cheese and spamroll harder.

Dragon God because I completely forgot the set of "puzzles" you gotta do to beat him.

Yeah, he's dogshit. As I said, Bed of Chaos of DeS.
I'm 90% sure that the way you're supposed to stand behind the pillars down the stairs is fucked up too. I made this top-down diagram of what I mean. Even if the dragon has clear line of sight if you're standing directly behind the pillar, he can't hit you there. If you stand in the crossed off area where he can't see you, you get hit by fire somehow.

As for playtime, DeS took me about 23.5h, give or take. I don't have numbers for DS1 since I pirated it, but DS2 took me 44 hours with all DLCs.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Yeah, it's not that hard compared to later games, although I've only done DS1 and 2.

They're really pushovers compared to the shit From cooked up in later games.

Basically. Flamelurker and maybe King Allant are the most later-souls-game-like bosses this one has. Then again, the heals in this are a big part of the reason why it's not that hard, little chance I would have done King Allant first try without this game's liberal heals. Maybe I would have, maybe I would have just played in an entirely different, safer way instead, who knows. In a sense it's not that bad of a thing to have more heals since the alternative will mean players just rat, cheese and spamroll harder.

Dragon God because I completely forgot the set of "puzzles" you gotta do to beat him.

Yeah, he's dogshit. As I said, Bed of Chaos of DeS.
I'm 90% sure that the way you're supposed to stand behind the pillars down the stairs is fucked up too. I made this top-down diagram of what I mean. Even if the dragon has clear line of sight if you're standing directly behind the pillar, he can't hit you there. If you stand in the crossed off area where he can't see you, you get hit by fire somehow.

As for playtime, DeS took me about 23.5h, give or take. I don't have numbers for DS1 since I pirated it, but DS2 took me 44 hours with all DLCs.

Gotta hump those pillars. IIRC, the one where you're standing back is because the fire would flow around or something something don't stand there you'll die because I said so.

 

[janior]

muh difficult tards destroyed this series

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

muh difficult tards destroyed this series

Only DkS3 has bullshit fights. The Elden Ring bosses are also bullshit but they can all be easily cheesed. I highly recommend cheesing the shit out of them, for your own sanity. The majority of BB's bosses weren't bad. Sekiro's fights seem fair but I'm too old and slow for them. I basically have to sacrifice years of my life to beat some of the Sekiro bosses.

 

[Elwro]

Nah, Demon's Souls is easily the smallest. Not a drawback, though.

As for the Flamelurker, iirc the level leading up to him was nontrivial, too. I remember raging after dying just before unlocking the final shortcut

 

[cruel]

The Elden Ring bosses are also bullshit

Which ones are bullshit, other than Malenia? And let's include the nerf to Godskin Duo of course.

The only really hard boss in Elden Ring, outside of Malenia, was probably true Mohg. And I would never call him bullshit, just 'very hard', mostly for pure melee characters.

 

[cvv]

The Elden Ring bosses are also bullshit

Which ones are bullshit, other than Malenia? And let's include the nerf to Godskin Duo of course.

Didn't have any fucking patience with Mogh and Maliketh and Hoarah Loux and Elden Beast either and pre-nerf Radahn was the epitome of retarded bullshit. And hated Fire Giant too, fuck these giant bosses you can't even fully see half of the time.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

The Elden Ring bosses are also bullshit

Which ones are bullshit, other than Malenia? And let's include the nerf to Godskin Duo of course.

The only really hard boss in Elden Ring, outside of Malenia, was probably true Mohg. And I would never call him bullshit, just 'very hard', mostly for pure melee characters.

The Atorias clones, so 99% of them. That formula is beyond tired.

 

[Silva]

I actually liked the lategame bosses but then I played recently, so they're probably nerfed by updates. Found Malenia, Maliketh, Loux, Mogh, Placidussaex and Godskin duo all fun.

The one I thought I would like but didn't is Radagon/Elden Beast. Not even the emotional music made it for me. I guess the burnout was strong by then.

And I hated Rykard. Fuck that shit.

 

[MasterofThunder]

Demon's Souls is a lot like the first Diablo. It was the first of it's kind, and was produced with a specific goal and scope in mind. In Diablo 1 the game is simple, it lacks the sheer complexity that Diablo 2 introduced and classes are very specific and set-in-stone. It's very much a "what you see is what you get" sort of game, there is no meta that extends the gametime for months if not years. If you know what you're doing, you can beat Diablo in a few hours and be done with it. In Demon's Souls case, the game is linear and the bosses aren't autistic to the point of insanity. Every boss encounter is unique and memorable, precisely because it isn't always a shonen-tier lightshow and a test of reflexes (and patience). The meme of Dark Souls must have gotten to the developers, because they flanderized the series big time. It ultimately became a parody of itself.

I would argue Demon's Souls is the finest in the series, because it features a very cohesive aesthetic, and design that meshes very well with it's limited mechanics. It was a humble product that was worth more than the sum of it's parts. Later Souls games stretch the gameplay formula to it's breaking point, and arguably feature worse aesthetics and level design.

 

[Spike]

Demon's Souls is a lot like the first Diablo. It was the first of it's kind, and was produced with a specific goal and scope in mind. In Diablo 1 the game is simple, it lacks the sheer complexity that Diablo 2 introduced and classes are very specific and set-in-stone. It's very much a "what you see is what you get" sort of game, there is no meta that extends the gametime for months if not years. If you know what you're doing, you can beat Diablo in a few hours and be done with it. In Demon's Souls case, the game is linear and the bosses aren't autistic to the point of insanity. Every boss encounter is unique and memorable, precisely because it isn't always a shonen-tier lightshow and a test of reflexes (and patience). The meme of Dark Souls must have gotten to the developers, because they flanderized the series big time. It ultimately became a parody of itself.

I would argue Demon's Souls is the finest in the series, because it features a very cohesive aesthetic, and design that meshes very well with it's limited mechanics. It was a humble product that was worth more than the sum of it's parts. Later Souls games stretch the gameplay formula to it's breaking point, and arguably feature worse aesthetics and level design.

I have been saying DeS is the best and my favorite since I completed the overrated-yet-wonderful Dark Souls 1. After ALL THESE frickin games, it STILL is the best (Sekiro not included since it is a different kind of game technically). But I am also a huge From freak-fan and love the difficult bosses etc and I pwn them so hmm I'm not sure where I stand.

I did think that Elden Ring might be like DeS, I had some hope for that for some reason, and it certainly is not (though it is still very good and even great, despite its palpable flaws).

My current gamer wish is that From makes a game like Demon's Souls again but with the maps of King's Field IV, I mean true dungeon crawler stuff. Best atmosphere to this day, which is half the enjoyment of a dungeon crawler.

EDIT: I only mean that DaS is overrated insofar as DeS gets snubbed by Johnny-come-lately casual fans, which it does. Constantly. DaS is still a huge W for gaming enthusiasts because it was a huge win in the decline wars, a victory which we feel and see the ramifications of to this day. I am glad Elden Ring won GOTY at The Fag Awards, let From keep winning so everyone knows that people like challenge and don't want to be babied (even though you can baby yourself in the games no problem).

 

[MasterofThunder]

A part of me thinks that Sony Japan Studio, which collaborated with From on both Demon's Souls and Bloodborne, are partly the reason why both games have such unique aesthetics. I am not sure in what capacity Japan Studio worked with From, which team members were involved and in what role, but I believe the concept of Bloodborne itself came from Japan Studio and not Miyazaki. Including the whole Lovecraftian angle.

This may be another Shinji Mikami-Kenichi Iwao situation. Where a lot of the elements we recognise from Souls were in fact created by someone else, and not the purported "creator" of the series. Of course, Japan Studio was also apparently involved in the Bluepoint remake, but by then the company was on it's way out and was losing a lot of key staff.

Edit: Takeshi Kajii of Sony Japan Studio seems to have been the driving force in the development of Demon's Souls, with Miyazaki having been brought on later in the From Software side as development started to go south. Miyazaki being the one who ultimately shaped the gameplay side of things into what we know today. Takeshi died in 2013, and apparently had a tribute in the credits of the remake.

 

[Elwro]

While I agree DeS was a ridiculously amazing first effort (I played it on PS3), the tendency system on its own brings its assessment down a notch in my view

 

[cvv]

While I agree DeS was a ridiculously amazing first effort (I played it on PS3), the tendency system on its own brings its assessment down a notch in my view

Yes but at the same time it shows Miya has a pair of giant brass ones, coming up with something like this in his first game as a designer. In a very conservative Japan dev environment.

Still can't wrap my head around how DeS could even come to exist.

 

[Deflowerer]

Iirc it wasn't really his project to begin with, but he did come and make it into what it eventually ended up as, yes. So probably the fact that he had to salvage something to an actual workable state made it easier than to pitch something from the ground up.

 

[MasterofThunder]

While I agree DeS was a ridiculously amazing first effort (I played it on PS3), the tendency system on its own brings its assessment down a notch in my view

Yes but at the same time it shows Miya has a pair of giant brass ones, coming up with something like this in his first game as a designer. In a very conservative Japan dev environment.

Still can't wrap my head around how DeS could even come to exist.

Same way games like Ico, Forbidden Siren, and Shadow of the Colossus exist. Japan Studio was given a surprising amount of leeway by Sony, and it resulted in a number of unique titles. Demon's Souls could only come about under those circumstances.