Diablo 3 has gone full popamole.

[MicoSelva]

I *obviously* meant elements (singular or combinations) that were unique to cRPGs.

Which are? Please post examples too, to help me understand everything.

Why the fuck would you use this term in any other way?

To confuse You, obviously. And it somehow worked!

"This game has RPG elements, by which I mean that you can use mouse to control it"?

I don't think this was ever a trait defining RPGs. On the other hand, questing, levelling up and item progression was, and these elements are present in D3...

What the fuck is wrong with you?

I am often wondering that myself.

 

[DraQ]

I *obviously* meant elements (singular or combinations) that were unique to cRPGs.

Which are? Please post examples too, to help me understand everything.

My shot would be:

stat system that allows for creation of a continuous range, to the extent permitted by system's granularity of characters which are distinct from each other in terms of their capabilities reflected in gameplay, doesn't horizontal transitions between characters in terms of stats (character inertia or no free to negligible cost respecs) and is combined with player having control over only small group of such characters.

Find me an RPG that isn't covered by this definition or an obvious non-RPG that is.

Additionally, I'm basing my definition on literal interpretation of the term Role Playing Game, because in my definition stat composition defines distinct gameplay role, so it's literally a game where gameplay focuses on playing a role without narrowing this role down to for example shooting aliens in the face but also without allowing arbitrary role-hopping. It's a game where mechanics play part in defining and enforcing that role without this role being pre-defined.

"This game has RPG elements, by which I mean that you can use mouse to control it"?

I don't think this was ever a trait defining RPGs. On the other hand, questing, levelling up and item progression was, and these elements are present in D3...

Questing is just a fancy name for striving to fulfil goals, obligatory or optional imposed on player by mechanics, which is present in almost every game there is.

Levelling up is present in many games - RTS and strategies, lately also shooters, and of course jPGs and all that hipster trash mimicking them.

Item progression is a feature of almost every game ever that has had items.

 

[Lancehead]

Find me an RPG that isn't covered by this definition

Diablo III.

 

[DraQ]

Find me an RPG that isn't covered by this definition

Diablo III.

 

[MicoSelva]

stat system that allows for creation of a continuous range, to the extent permitted by system's granularity of characters which are distinct from each other in terms of their capabilities reflected in gameplay, doesn't horizontal transitions between characters in terms of stats (character inertia or no free to negligible cost respecs) and is combined with player having control over only small group of such characters.

So, basically what You are saying is that D3 is not an RPG because You can respec at any time?

Find me an RPG that isn't covered by this definition or an obvious non-RPG that is.

Since Your definition says nothing at all about gameplay, I think most MOBA games fit. Multiplayer FPS's too. You are upgrading Your soldier, You play a distinct role in a team and You only control one soldier at a time. I'm assuming that by small group You also mean one person - if not I can name a lot of RPGs which don't fit this definiton.

 

[DraQ]

stat system that allows for creation of a continuous range, to the extent permitted by system's granularity of characters which are distinct from each other in terms of their capabilities reflected in gameplay, doesn't horizontal transitions between characters in terms of stats (character inertia or no free to negligible cost respecs) and is combined with player having control over only small group of such characters.

So, basically what You are saying is that D3 is not an RPG because You can respec at any time?

Not just that, it also doesn't allow you to build your own character. You can pick class but then your demon hunter will be a copy of everyone else's demon hunter (at equivalent level), your barb will be everyone else's barb and so on.

There is theoretically a stat system that's fine enough for that, but since points are allocated automatically in fixed manner, this system is unused. You can boost your stats by putting on right gear, but by that logic pretty much every game with equippable items is an RPG.

Diablo 3 is about as much or slightly more of an RPG than Hexen or Eradicator and less than Hexen II.

Since Your definition says nothing at all about gameplay, I think most MOBA games fit. Multiplayer FPS's too. You are upgrading Your soldier, You play a distinct role in a team and You only control one soldier at a time. I'm assuming that by small group You also mean one person - if not I can name a lot of RPGs which don't fit this definiton.

I have no interest in MOBA, so I don't know enough about their gameplay. MP FPSes generally don't allow different stat allocation at the beginning or subsequent level ups, but if they did they would fit the definition.

If it helps, we can also exclude purely competitive (zero sum) games and games not including asymmetrical conflict or imbalance in their initial conditions.

Should exclude MOBA and competitive MP FPSes while keeping RPGs intact.

 

[MicoSelva]

stat system that allows for creation of a continuous range, to the extent permitted by system's granularity of characters which are distinct from each other in terms of their capabilities reflected in gameplay, doesn't horizontal transitions between characters in terms of stats (character inertia or no free to negligible cost respecs) and is combined with player having control over only small group of such characters.

So, basically what You are saying is that D3 is not an RPG because You can respec at any time?

Not just that, it also doesn't allow you to build your own character. You can pick class but then your demon hunter will be a copy of everyone else's demon hunter (at equivalent level), your barb will be everyone else's barb and so on.

If there was no respecing, your chracter would be defined by the skills chose, so only respecing makes D3 not an RPG.

Diablo 3 is about as much or slightly more of an RPG than Hexen or Eradicator and less than Hexen II.

I wasn't aware something could be partially an RPG with Your definition. Which games are the most RPG then?

If it helps, we can also exclude purely competitive (zero sum) games and games not including asymmetrical conflict or imbalance in their initial conditions.

Should exclude MOBA and competitive MP FPSes while keeping RPGs intact.

This would also exclude Banner Saga: Factions. Is it not an RPG?

 

[DraQ]

If there was no respecing, your chracter would be defined by the skills chose, so only respecing makes D3 not an RPG.

Indeed, so ok, lack of respec would suffice, ability to allocate points would too, as long as you couldn't respec those.

I wasn't aware something could be partially an RPG with Your definition.

Well, unless you're in beautiful abstract world of pure math and logic, there will always be fuzziness, border cases and so on (and even in math you have to assume shit you can't prove).

Which games are the most RPG then?

Does it matter? You never learn much examining this sort of cases, the most truth can be found along the fuzzy borders.

This would also exclude Banner Saga: Factions. Is it not an RPG?

Never played it, seen it being played, or read any sort of detailed description.

 

[Angthoron]

D3 is a dumb RPG for dumb masses that can't figure out how to allocate stats and select skills but want to play an RPG and have heard the magical words, Diablo, Blizzard, and Activision.

It's an RPG, but so horribly dumbed down that even Bethesda's latest games are complex and mechanically rich by comparing. Terrifying as this thought may be, even WoW is more complex at THIS point of dumb-down, and that's before the actual teamplay kicks in.

Of course, people will be like BUT MAN IT'S A ARPG WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU EXPECT and then you show them the other games of the genre that either had the name Diablo in them, or have been declared its successful clones.

 

[Zeriel]

D3 is a dumb RPG for dumb masses that can't figure out how to allocate stats and select skills but want to play an RPG and have heard the magical words, Diablo, Blizzard, and Activision.

It's an RPG, but so horribly dumbed down that even Bethesda's latest games are complex and mechanically rich by comparing. Terrifying as this thought may be, even WoW is more complex at THIS point of dumb-down, and that's before the actual teamplay kicks in.

Of course, people will be like BUT MAN IT'S A ARPG WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU EXPECT and then you show them the other games of the genre that either had the name Diablo in them, or have been declared its successful clones.

World of Warcraft is actually more complex than pretty much all singleplayer RPGs. This doesn't make it good, but people seem to have this necessity to align "shit game" with "simple", which isn't always the case.

 

[DraQ]

simple != bad, complex != good
non-RPG != bad, RPG != good
non-RPG != simple, RPG != complex

Doesn't change that D3 is both a non-RPG and bad.

 

[Jasede]

Just for being devil's advocate, who says it's bad? Do you know a lot of people who played it? I do and most of them enjoyed it, though all agree it was disappointing compared to D2 and definitely a step backwards.

 

[Dreaad]

^

 

[DraQ]

Just for being devil's advocate, who says it's bad? Do you know a lot of people who played it?

The entire Codex, apparently.

 

[Zewp]

Just for being devil's advocate, who says it's bad? Do you know a lot of people who played it? I do and most of them enjoyed it, though all agree it was disappointing compared to D2 and definitely a step backwards.

You spelled degenerates wrong. It's not spelled p-e-o-p-l-e

 

[Shannow]

D3 is technically an RPG.
As much as world peace would have been technically achieved if the NAZIs had won WW3.

 

[Turjan]

I was just looking here because I was curious why this topic was suddenly that lively again. And then I find this clusterfuck. This discussion is retarded. Pretty much as retarded as the existence of this stupid subforum.

This site should just go back to the Moby Games definition and be done with it.

 

[Akratus]

I played Diablo 3 for all of fifteen minutes. I have never been more infuriated about a game in my life. I had found enough problems in even those few minutes to dissect in my mind in my 10 minute bike ride back home.

The graphics are technologically bad, not too much of a problem considering low system requirements are good for many.
The aesthethic is straight out of a terrible, terrible comic book. http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/data/531/barb-m7.jpg WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?! Not only armors are bad however, the ground comes straight out of an alien planet, the environment objects have that ever present blizzard smoothing and shit texturing, making you feel like you're in some kid playpen (which it actually is, zing!)
The combat is very non visceral. The visceral workings of Diablo 2 as far as combat go was part of the reason that game played well. Enemy deaths were varied and flavorful as were the sounds that play an integral part in the feel of the combat. This is completely defenestrated in Diablo 3.
The interface was one of the few serviceable things in the game, but nothing great.
Skills and stats are a joke. This is a SIN in a diablo game! With these kinds of action rpg's you go UP, not DOWN. How the fuck was DIABLO 2 TOO COMPLICATED?!
This goes for the classes as well. I can't even tell if the barbarian is supposed to be the d2 one, although I don't really care. A witch doctor, a kung fu guy, a glowing, spikey, daemon hunter and a wizard. A fucking 3 year old would design characters like these. The Barbarian female has the face and hair of a model, too. That's blizz for you.
The moment I had my first dialogue was where I really rage quit. I felt like punching someone in the face at that point.

The comet!! cast! my uncle DECKARD CAIN! into the DEPTHS of the old cathedral.

The skills are shit, the combat is shit, the look of the game is shit, the story is shit, the cinematics are shit, the characters are shit, the progression is shit, the classes are shit and it's not worth playing.
Fuck this game, fuck blizzard, fuck people who like them and their games.

So those are my thoughts.

 

[suejak]

I mean, you just sound really dumb. Who on earth thinks the cinematics are bad?

 

[Stabwound]

I played Diablo 3 for all of fifteen minutes. I have never been more infuriated about a game in my life. I had found enough problems in even those few minutes to dissect in my mind in my 10 minute bike ride back home.

...

The skills are shit, the combat is shit, the look of the game is shit, the story is shit, the cinematics are shit, the characters are shit, the progression is shit, the classes are shit and it's not worth playing.
Fuck this game, fuck blizzard, fuck people who like them and their games.

The game might be shit, but you sure as hell couldn't deduce all of that from playing for 15 minutes. Your trying too-hard-to-fit-in-idness is showing.

 

[Akratus]

You can, it's a Blizzard game.

 

[Angthoron]

What did we call "visceral action" before "visceral" was a thing, anyway?

Also, to Potato Codexians, Google Translate suggests this for "visceral action", is this the right translation?

Działanie narządów wewnętrznych

 

[Zewp]

I mean, you just sound really dumb. Who on earth thinks the cinematics are bad?

The cinematics are perhaps the best part of the game, but that's not really saying much as the entire game is shit. The worst part about the cinematics is that they end, then you have to continue with the shit gameplay.

 

[DraQ]

What did we call "visceral action" before "visceral" was a thing, anyway?

Also, to Potato Codexians, Google Translate suggests this for "visceral action", is this the right translation?

Działanie narządów wewnętrznych

It's not the translation it needs, but it's the translation it deserves.

I mean, you just sound really dumb. Who on earth thinks the cinematics are bad?

The cinematics are perhaps the best part of the game, but that's not really saying much as the entire game is shit. The worst part about the cinematics is that they end, then you have to continue with the shit gameplay.

Would you be interested in Diablo 3: Youtube Edition, kind sir?

Also, I figure 15' is more than enough to realize that D3 is shit - most of us managed to do so based on only screens, vids, news and some second hand opinions.

 

[Akratus]

Diablo 3 cinematics are the worst part of the game. Blizzard asperger retardation writing at it's finest. Now, the Diablo 2 cinematics, those were awesome.