Diablo IV

[BlackAdderBG]

Microcosms of gaming decline in this thread. If you ever wonder why RPGs are so shit just look at the last page. One retard played Diablo for the story, another thought min maxing in an RPG is accounting, third suggests the genre should had gone the puzzle route (Nox).

 

[Immortal]

W8, so this thing has enemies scaling to your level, but also allows multiple players in the same instance. How does one mechanic interact with the other, if your level is 20, and the other guy's 2?

Oh that's the best part.
All incoming and outgoing damage is personally scaled. So from your perspective your level 3 buddy is doing a lot of damage and from his perspective your a manlet.
That has been going on in WoW for years. Welcome to nuu-gaming.

EDIT:
The obvious outcome.. that literally anyone but a retard monkey at blizzard could of told you was:

You lose all sense of progression
and worse than that - You feel weaker the higher level you are - because your items scale worse for you

Imagine a game design where the more you level up the weaker you fucking get. Brilliant.

Microcosms of gaming decline in this thread. If you ever wonder why RPGs are so shit just look at the last page. One retard played Diablo for the story, another thought min maxing in an RPG is accounting, third suggests the genre should had gone the puzzle route (Nox).

> Nox is a puzzle game

Hey thanks for your opinion guy-who-makes-shit-up

 

[Dadd]

PoE fags shit on every ARPG that's not PoE with such autistic devotion that is difficult to understand. Labeling Nox the "puzzle route" is amazing.

 

[Storyfag]

All incoming and outgoing damage is personally scaled.

Ah, that could be reasonable.

So from your perspective your level 3 buddy is doing a lot of damage and from his perspective your a manlet.
That has been going on in WoW for years. Welcome to nuu-gaming.

EDIT:
The obvious outcome.. that literally anyone but a retard monkey at blizzard could of told you was:

You lose all sense of progression
and worse than that - You feel weaker the higher level you are - because your items scale worse for you

Imagine a game design where the more you level up the weaker you fucking get. Brilliant.

Lulz, that is NOT reasonable. SWTOR scales you down if you overlevel an area, but you still mop the floor with a supermajority of the mobs. No scaling up for lowbies tho.

 

[Arbiter]

Imagine a game design where the more you level up the weaker you fucking get. Brilliant.

In The Frozen Throne Arthas loses a level in every mission and this mechanic feels fresh and challenging in that game. NuBlizzard is only capable of rehashing old ideas, whether they fit new games or not.

 

[Kjaska]

I don't understand why all the nostalgic fags in this thread have to lament "muh good old days" when Soulsborne games exist. They have everything you niggers are asking for:

- slow, intimate and meaningful combat
- minimal loot
- build variety
- thicc atmosphere
- lore

aRPGs should be about killing, looting, leveling, min-maxing and feeling the progression of your character towards godhood. Why can't you just let us fun-havers have our fun and go play those grognard games, you grognards?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Why can't you just let us fun-havers have our fun and go play those grognard games, you grognards?

Because this is the Codex and the stuff you like is rancid diarrhea in the form of a game.

 

[Old Hans]

The first time I played diablo back in the 80's or whenever it came out, I had no concept of the action rpg looter genre, so I approached it like a normal RPG and after I finsiehd it I thought "14 dungeon levels? THAT'S IT???? what is this NAZI HORSE SHIT?"

and I literally never played it again

 

[Tyranicon]

I don't understand why all the nostalgic fags in this thread have to lament "muh good old days" when Soulsborne games exist. They have everything you niggers are asking for:

- slow, intimate and meaningful combat
- minimal loot
- build variety
- thicc atmosphere
- lore

aRPGs should be about killing, looting, leveling, min-maxing and feeling the progression of your character towards godhood. Why can't you just let us fun-havers have our fun and go play those grognard games, you grognards?

There's "arpgs" and then there are arpgs. Most people in this thread are talking about diablo-likes, which is a genre onto itself much like souls-likes.

But I'll burn my grognard cred by saying that because of this thread, I finally decided to listen to a buddy of mine and picked up V Rising. Despite initially hating it due to its blasphemous mix of crafting survival mechanics, I actually think it's well designed and... fun? It's not really an arpg though, even though it scratches the same itch.

I'm only two hours in, but I... like it.

A good vampire game? I'm sure people are on their way to tell me why this opinion is wrong.

 

[Immortal]

Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
cool story bro

Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
Bad Spelling

Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
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Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
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--

 

[Anomander]

Microcosms of gaming decline in this thread. If you ever wonder why RPGs are so shit just look at the last page. One retard played Diablo for the story, another thought min maxing in an RPG is accounting, third suggests the genre should had gone the puzzle route (Nox).

Let me just put here a video:

 

[Cyberarmy]

I finally decided to listen to a buddy of mine and picked up V Rising.

V Rising is a really good vampire game, it's "survival" mechanics being tied to sun light and blood sucking are really well done. Best part I like is you are what you eat.
I just need some slave or thralls in this kind of games, to build housing in my place. I can eat and sack whole villages by myself but building my chateau bores me to dead after a short while.

 

[Jimeh]

Oh that's the best part.
All incoming and outgoing damage is personally scaled. So from your perspective your level 3 buddy is doing a lot of damage and from his perspective your a manlet.
That has been going on in WoW for years. Welcome to nuu-gaming.

EDIT:
The obvious outcome.. that literally anyone but a retard monkey at blizzard could of told you was:

You lose all sense of progression
and worse than that - You feel weaker the higher level you are - because your items scale worse for you

Imagine a game design where the more you level up the weaker you fucking get. Brilliant.

It's your choice whether you want to see the glass as half-empty or half-full.

Is it really a problem that you can group with your friends regardless of your levels or is this a solution to the problem? I grouped with a level 25 when I was level 13 and it was great. He wasn't overpowered, I wasn't underpowered. It was just like I was playing a brawler like Double Dragon at the arcades and someone else joined the game.

All the progression systems still function perfectly. You don't get any less XP because you're partied with a high level player. You both get your own drops appropriate for your level. You don't feel weaker the higher level you are until your items are getting old but the system to extract the legendary aspect from an item then attach it to a new one means you can keep your favourite item for quite a long time. It does all scale but it seems to be done really well.

Sacred 2 is an example of scaling done poorly. I remember I even started again just so I could pick 1 skill and never get another one because it would make me weaker. It didn't feel like this in D4. In fact, using Barbarian as an example, I started off feeling quite weak but as I gained more skills though levels and found good items I ended up feeling very strong.

Edit: So, I was just wondering how far the level gap could be and I think the limiting factor will be the World Tier. Anyone can start on "Adventure" (easy) or "Veteran" (normal) but you need to be level 50 to start playing on Nightmare, where a new tier of items start to drop. Then even higher there's Torment where extremely rare Ancestral tier items start to drop. Bliz said Ancestral items are so rare you might only find 2 or 3 a season.

I guess if a level 90 was happy to play on Veteran they could still play with a level 10 friend but the level 10 wouldn't be able to join a Torment game. The only thing would be the level 90 probably wouldn't want any Veteran world tier items, but I assume they'd still get xp and appropriate level drops up to Legendary quality but no Sacred or Ancestral, which would be what they want for gear progression.

 

[Arbiter]

The first time I played diablo back in the 80's or whenever it came out,

SVGA graphics in the 80s?

"14 dungeon levels? THAT'S IT???? what is this NAZI HORSE SHIT?"

16 levels, 4 per tileset.

 

[abija]

W8, so this thing has enemies scaling to your level, but also allows multiple players in the same instance. How does one mechanic interact with the other, if your level is 20, and the other guy's 2?

A little more elaborate but dmg is transformed in % enemy hp. Lvl 1 player hits lvl 1 enemy and produces x% dmg, lvl 10 player -> lvl 10 enemy produces y% dmg.

 

[Sykar]

Sacred 2 is an example of scaling done poorly. I remember I even started again just so I could pick 1 skill and never get another one because it would make me weaker. It didn't feel like this in D4. In fact, using Barbarian as an example, I started off feeling quite weak but as I gained more skills though levels and found good items I ended up feeling very strong.

What? That is just blatant nonsense. The scaling is not great but everything else you said is plain nonsense. I can only assume that you did not understand the system enough to make an effective character build. Both Sacred games are rather unforgiving on that front.

 

[Jimeh]

Are you sure? I'm not saying other builds aren't viable but did you ever try only spending a single skill point?

 

[Yosharian]

Oh that's the best part.
All incoming and outgoing damage is personally scaled. So from your perspective your level 3 buddy is doing a lot of damage and from his perspective your a manlet.
That has been going on in WoW for years. Welcome to nuu-gaming.

EDIT:
The obvious outcome.. that literally anyone but a retard monkey at blizzard could of told you was:

You lose all sense of progression
and worse than that - You feel weaker the higher level you are - because your items scale worse for you

Imagine a game design where the more you level up the weaker you fucking get. Brilliant.

It's your choice whether you want to see the glass as half-empty or half-full.

Is it really a problem that you can group with your friends regardless of your levels or is this a solution to the problem? I grouped with a level 25 when I was level 13 and it was great. He wasn't overpowered, I wasn't underpowered. It was just like I was playing a brawler like Double Dragon at the arcades and someone else joined the game.

All the progression systems still function perfectly. You don't get any less XP because you're partied with a high level player. You both get your own drops appropriate for your level. You don't feel weaker the higher level you are until your items are getting old but the system to extract the legendary aspect from an item then attach it to a new one means you can keep your favourite item for quite a long time. It does all scale but it seems to be done really well.

Sacred 2 is an example of scaling done poorly. I remember I even started again just so I could pick 1 skill and never get another one because it would make me weaker. It didn't feel like this in D4. In fact, using Barbarian as an example, I started off feeling quite weak but as I gained more skills though levels and found good items I ended up feeling very strong.

Edit: So, I was just wondering how far the level gap could be and I think the limiting factor will be the World Tier. Anyone can start on "Adventure" (easy) or "Veteran" (normal) but you need to be level 50 to start playing on Nightmare, where a new tier of items start to drop. Then even higher there's Torment where extremely rare Ancestral tier items start to drop. Bliz said Ancestral items are so rare you might only find 2 or 3 a season.

I guess if a level 90 was happy to play on Veteran they could still play with a level 10 friend but the level 10 wouldn't be able to join a Torment game. The only thing would be the level 90 probably wouldn't want any Veteran world tier items, but I assume they'd still get xp and appropriate level drops up to Legendary quality but no Sacred or Ancestral, which would be what they want for gear progression.

This is all well and good but some players don't want to group with others at all and for those players this system offers nothing in exchange for a pretty big penalty to immersion.

 

[Angthoron]

IIRC GW2 did a good job with level scaling.

Higher level chars would scale down to the zone's "recommended" level, but if they'd get to a higher level zone, they'd get their regular levels back. Scaling down would bring stats to "recommended" + downscaled bonus stats that you would have. Plus whatever other sources of power you'd have that a regular character of that level range couldn't. So your character would never feel weaker to play in that downscaled area, you WOULD be helping out your lowbie friends, but at the same time, things wouldn't die just from you sneezing at them, either.

I don't know, is this really rocket surgery?

 

[Yosharian]

rocket surgery?

 

[Angthoron]

rocket surgery?

I saw that utterance here and found it amusing.

 

[Immortal]

It's your choice whether you want to see the glass as half-empty or half-full.

Is it really a problem that you can group with your friends regardless of your levels or is this a solution to the problem? I grouped with a level 25 when I was level 13 and it was great. He wasn't overpowered, I wasn't underpowered. It was just like I was playing a brawler like Double Dragon at the arcades and someone else joined the game.

All the progression systems still function perfectly. You don't get any less XP because you're partied with a high level player. You both get your own drops appropriate for your level. You don't feel weaker the higher level you are until your items are getting old but the system to extract the legendary aspect from an item then attach it to a new one means you can keep your favourite item for quite a long time. It does all scale but it seems to be done really well.

Your argument is basically "This design lets me play with my friend.. there's no downsides so stop complaining!"

But there is a huge downside to this.

There's something cool about going somewhere you shouldn't .. overcoming or getting your ass handed to you.. bringing higher level friends or getting stronger yourself.
I have fond memories having my more powerful friends help me through difficult content or me helping my friends through content they shouldn't be in.

Rushing people through acts or power leveling them..

All of this is gone.
You've even lost all motivation to catch up to a friend or a group of friends who are ahead of you because you joined a week late, these motivations to achieve something are important.. or pausing your miller box loot hunt to go help a friend in a similar boat.

Now, everything is catered and scaled to your level at all times so you are never inconvenienced. It's so gay and boring.

Frankly - I completely and wholeheartedly reject the "I work 30 hours a day with 12 kids so I can't be inconvenienced at all in my video games! Cater to me!" type arguments - it's literally killing game enjoyment for everyone else.

 

[Jimeh]

I mean, fuck, this sites slogan is "doesn't scale to your level" and I get it. I prefer a goblin to be a goblin forever and to fight harder monsters rather than scaled monsters as the game progresses.

But, at the same time, It wouldn't break the lore to leave Candlekeep in Baldurs Gate and walk straight into a Red Dragon. Is it just luck that in RPGs you always run into enemies appropriate to your level? All BG1 and you never run into any level 20 monsters yet wander down to Amn and suddenly you'll never find a level 1?

Like, it's just a game. You just suspend disbelief. Ian McKellen plays a wizard in LOTR but do you think he goes home and shoots lightning bolts into his boyfriends asshole? Just accept the fantasy. Focus on the story and the sound and graphics and just enjoy the ride without picking it to bits. There's plenty of immersion if you allow it.

Power leveling is fun but you'd have to agree it's breaking the game. I beat BG with a solo character because, for some reason, you get 6 times more XP when you don't have to share it around. But if you think about the roleplay, how does that make any sense? Surely there would be more experience to be had from working as a team and establishing some party coordination and tactics?

I don't think there's really any downside. In games there's sort of no wrong answers, lots of ways to do the same things. PoE removing gold and using ID scrolls and stuff for money is perfectly valid but there's nothing inherently wrong with good old gold, either.

If you make act 1 of 5 exclusively for level 1 to 20 then at end game you end up with only 20% of the content. I think its better to keep it open and let people do any of the 140 dungeons in the whole game rather than just the 25 in act 5. It's easy to see the reasoning behind the decisions made for D4.

At the end of the day, you can play whatever you want. If you're still having fun with PoE or something then that's awesome and you should keep playing. But I've played everything and I'm bored of everything and can't wait to play more D4 because it's a new game with its own take on things and it all seems to work really well for the type of game it is.

 

[Storyfag]

Is it really a problem that you can group with your friends regardless of your levels or is this a solution to the problem? I grouped with a level 25 when I was level 13 and it was great. He wasn't overpowered, I wasn't underpowered.

Grouping with others regardless of level is not a problem. Being scaled down to not being overpowered, even slightly, compared to them is a fuckhueg problem, which, as noted before, SWTOR and GW2 managed to avoid.

Being scaled down so as to become worse than the low level friend is... a whole new, ahem, level of problem.

 

[ItsChon]

I don't mean to turn this into a PoE thread but I'm genuinely curious, and this does relate back to Diablo 4. I always assumed that after you played Poe for a few months, did one-two builds to max level/completion, you would understand enough about the games systems to start to plan a build, albeit with some help/assistance. Is this not the case? Does it really take years of playing to understand the systems well enough to make a viable build that can complete most if not all end game content?