Diablo IV

[Yosharian]

There's something cool about going somewhere you shouldn't .. overcoming or getting your ass handed to you.. bringing higher level friends or getting stronger yourself.
I have fond memories having my more powerful friends help me through difficult content or me helping my friends through content they shouldn't be in.

Yes but we need to sell MTX and cosmetics so be quiet and consume product

 

[Yosharian]

plays a wizard in LOTR but do you think he goes home and shoots lightning bolts into his boyfriends asshole?

 

[Hobo Elf]

Hobo Elf,
Well, it seems sort of hard to believe that the locals killed the hard stuff and forgot the easy stuff, but I'm happy to suspend disbelief here.

Think of it this way: there's a reason why goblins and gibberlings are on the same tier as giant rats and spiders. They are literally vermin, not an existential threat. You can thin them out but getting rid of them entirely is impossible. But you can cause predators to go extinct.

 

[Sykar]

I mean, fuck, this sites slogan is "doesn't scale to your level" and I get it. I prefer a goblin to be a goblin forever and to fight harder monsters rather than scaled monsters as the game progresses.

But, at the same time, It wouldn't break the lore to leave Candlekeep in Baldurs Gate and walk straight into a Red Dragon. Is it just luck that in RPGs you always run into enemies appropriate to your level? All BG1 and you never run into any level 20 monsters yet wander down to Amn and suddenly you'll never find a level 1?

Like, it's just a game. You just suspend disbelief. Ian McKellen plays a wizard in LOTR but do you think he goes home and shoots lightning bolts into his boyfriends asshole? Just accept the fantasy. Focus on the story and the sound and graphics and just enjoy the ride without picking it to bits. There's plenty of immersion if you allow it.

Power leveling is fun but you'd have to agree it's breaking the game. I beat BG with a solo character because, for some reason, you get 6 times more XP when you don't have to share it around. But if you think about the roleplay, how does that make any sense? Surely there would be more experience to be had from working as a team and establishing some party coordination and tactics?

I don't think there's really any downside. In games there's sort of no wrong answers, lots of ways to do the same things. PoE removing gold and using ID scrolls and stuff for money is perfectly valid but there's nothing inherently wrong with good old gold, either.

If you make act 1 of 5 exclusively for level 1 to 20 then at end game you end up with only 20% of the content. I think its better to keep it open and let people do any of the 140 dungeons in the whole game rather than just the 25 in act 5. It's easy to see the reasoning behind the decisions made for D4.

At the end of the day, you can play whatever you want. If you're still having fun with PoE or something then that's awesome and you should keep playing. But I've played everything and I'm bored of everything and can't wait to play more D4 because it's a new game with its own take on things and it all seems to work really well for the type of game it is.

Dragons are rare. Goblins are not. The likelihood of randomly meeting those low level monsters is a lot higher than most high level monsters simply due to population. In fact most dragons are rather lazy once they have their hoard and rarely leave their cave so usually you have to seek them out. That is true for many other powerful monsters as well.

 

[abija]

While you ramble about level scaling:
- zones seem to have a min level (there was a lvl 35 monster in beta near a closed zone)
- Kripp was exaggerating (or he lost his marbles and doesn't realize that his statements about barb starting hard and getting stronger with levels contradict his theory about level scaling and skills only improving a char by max 10%)

 

[Angthoron]

- Kripp was exaggerating (or he lost his marbles and doesn't realize that his statements about barb starting hard and getting stronger with levels contradict his theory about level scaling and skills only improving a char by max 10%)

I take it you're lucky enough not to have played WoW in the recent years.

Player at iLevel 370 will be running into enemies at, say, 500K health, and their attacks feel impactful
Player at iLevel 385 will be running into enemies at, say, 640K health, and their attacks will, again, feel impactful
Player's armor went up by 4 points, health went up by 2K, time to kill the enemy mob went up by 15%

Yeah, at some point your gear climbs over this cliff, since it's all in tiered brackets, and your performance at the moment you enter the bracket will be drastically different than at the point you're about to exit it, but nevertheless, you're basically stuck on an endless treadmill that's stacked against you. I don't see them doing it too differently with Diablo 4, except I'd imagine it to be a lot more casual and the brackets being a lot less noticeable.

It's similar to D3's levelling experience, there are certain brackets which you enter with your L24 gear, and you feel weak as fuck, then you get to L32 and you feel like you're trashing your opposition at last, and then wham, you're 33 and suddenly, the trash is you.

So yeah, no, Kripp knows what he's talking about, it's typical Blizz scaling design.

 

[abija]

You aren't exaggerating for effect either I suppose? You talk about WoW and D3 leveling and you use "stuck on endless treadmill" ? God at 32, trash at 33... Really?

 

[Angthoron]

You aren't exaggerating for effect either I suppose? You talk about WoW and D3 leveling and you use "stuck on endless treadmill" ? God at 32, trash at 33... Really?

It may be a minor exaggeration, but it's still very noticeable. There are "power brackets" that Blizzard seems to love to use in their "evergreen content".

It's there in WoW's open world, it's there in D3 levelling, etc.

This is why Kripp mentions the bit where you might end up hunting for the same legendary items of a higher item level just to keep up in terms of power.

It really is that way, and it's a really lazy bit of design.

 

[ArchAngel]

Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
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Kjaska is our zoomer version of Lilura.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

While you ramble about level scaling:
- zones seem to have a min level (there was a lvl 35 monster in beta near a closed zone)

That is another problem though.It's pure laziness of design as even the retards at Blizzard understand that you need some enemies that are not level scaled to present some sort of anchor, but don't want to spent time creating tailored encounters all the time. It's telling that the most interesting thing in the D4 beta was the 25 lvl world boss that is not level scaled and that 35 lvl mob that is also not down scaled. Most people don't notice how bad level scaling is when stating a new game, but when you know the system going into a game it's jarring and I suspect a lot of complains will be made and I hope this becomes hated feature in a larger scale.

 

[d1r]

Are class-locked item drops still a thing?

As offensive as level scaling tbh.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Are class-locked item drops still a thing?

As offensive as level scaling tbh.

What you think? Ofc it's still a thing, when retarded system is introduced it's here to stay. There is some mobs that have their loot table and you can get non-class uniques, but that may be a bug. Not to mention the stats are so watered down and homogenized that it doesn't even matter. What you will want in d4's items is the unique modifiers (aspects) like in the later d3 and Immortal. Having +50 strength or +50 dexterity on item is meaningless , when the point is to have a stat that gives your specific spell +100% damage.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

My favorite scuffed kiwi Quin69 covers it very well.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

> Nox is a puzzle game

Hey thanks for your opinion guy-who-makes-shit-up

That was one of the main gimmicks of Nox guy-who-dont-remember-shit.

Spoiler

My favorite scuffed kiwi Quin69 covers it very well.

Love when the first thing he zooms in at 6:16 to praise the graphics is horrendous looking tree. lol

 

[Peachcurl]

That hardly makes it a puzzle game.

edit: and "major gimmick"? Eh. They don't even sell it as "puzzles" in that image. If you play Nox expecting puzzles to be a major experience in the game, you'll be sorely disappointed.

 

[Storyfag]

Over 1 million people played the pre-order beta. Must be doing something right?

This argument? Here, of all places?

It's all subjective, anyway.

No amount of simping will turn shit into not-shit. And you finding enjoyment in shit is not a subjective thing, it is called being an untermensch of low standards.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

That hardly makes it a puzzle game.

edit: and "major gimmick"? Eh. They don't even sell it as "puzzles" in that image. If you play Nox expecting puzzles to be a major experience in the game, you'll be sorely disappointed.

Are you guys slow or didn't play Nox at all, switches, elevators, caves, hidden buttons, environmental manipulation with spells and all that shit is in the game and the main way to progress in a lot of levels. It's not THE MAIN THING, but it's the thing that separated it from Diablo at the time.

 

[abija]

I seriously doubt this part will age well: https://youtu.be/37gTTnYhTs0?t=434

 

[Peachcurl]

That hardly makes it a puzzle game.

edit: and "major gimmick"? Eh. They don't even sell it as "puzzles" in that image. If you play Nox expecting puzzles to be a major experience in the game, you'll be sorely disappointed.

Are you guys slow or didn't play Nox at all, switches, elevators, caves, hidden buttons, environmental manipulation with spells and all that shit is in the game and the main way to progress in a lot of levels.

No, you just seem to think that pressing a button is a puzzle.

edit after your edit: Diablo 1 also had buttons. :>

 

[Grotesque]

My opinion is probably in the minority, but aRPGs have developed into something I don't like. Now it's all about mathematically superior builds and shit you need specialized calculators for. Every time you smack an enemy with a sword you get a dozen numbers, conditions, and entire algorithms spat out on screen in five different colors and fonts.



WTF. That's disgusting.

I miss atmospheric dungeon crawling. Interesting stories that came with 10 pages of lore in the manual. Minimal loot, minimal build structure. You actually walk around like a normal person instead of being an autocast bot destroyer of worlds.

God I'm fucking old, and I'm even that old.

This is probably why I like Diablo 1 more than 2. Nothing in the arpg sphere was made for me after 2.

 

[Grotesque]

Diablo IV - the corridor simulator



why in this game & D3 and honestly, mostly other games, the map design is corridors, like you are in a cave or something? some corridor sare narrower than others, but still corridors.

what happened to maps that are just wide plains with different features and points of interests?

just look at these open maps from Divine Divinity where you can go anywhere and have the feeling of real exploration

Why didn't they make the same style of maps for Diablo 4?

How is the dungeon map design in D4 for the non-cave locations?

 

[Kjaska]

GW2 did a good job with level scaling.

And GW2 suffered from the same issue D4 is going to have: you feel no fucking character progression. It also featured no discernible classes, no interesting itemization and some of the most boring talent trees I've ever seen. It should never be brought up as an example of something done right.

Does it really take years of playing to understand the systems well enough to make a viable build that can complete most if not all end game content?

You'll be able to make trash builds that can clear the campaign fairly easily. It will require more knowledge and experience to create something that can get into red maps. It will require a lot of skill/research and practice in order to make something that can actually get into t15s on day 2 reliably and be able to kill some of the basic bosses. There was one young player who started fairly late into the game's lifespan and became the top2 player overall, but it still took him more than a year to get there and thousands of hours of practice.

 

[Dadd]

That hardly makes it a puzzle game.

edit: and "major gimmick"? Eh. They don't even sell it as "puzzles" in that image. If you play Nox expecting puzzles to be a major experience in the game, you'll be sorely disappointed.

Are you guys slow or didn't play Nox at all, switches, elevators, caves, hidden buttons, environmental manipulation with spells and all that shit is in the game and the main way to progress in a lot of levels. It's not THE MAIN THING, but it's the thing that separated it from Diablo at the time.

Another thing that separates it from Diablo is how the main character lives in a trailer. Does that make Nox a trailer resident simulator?

 

[Tyranicon]

why in this game & D3 and honestly, mostly other games, the map design is corridors, like you are in a cave or something? some corridor sare narrower than others, but still corridors.

Exploration stopped being a design pillar in arpgs a long time ago.

It's all about dopamine hits from leveling up, using the skill tree, getting new items, etc. Gameplay loop gravitates towards quickly clearing maps without stopping, over and over again, to increase power level marginally.

Big numbers go up.

I never understood the point of making games that are more like jobs, but without the paycheck.

 

[Dadd]

Except with level scaling it's like walking up a descending escalator