Diablo IV

[Grotesque]

My opinion is probably in the minority, but aRPGs have developed into something I don't like. Now it's all about mathematically superior builds and shit you need specialized calculators for. Every time you smack an enemy with a sword you get a dozen numbers, conditions, and entire algorithms spat out on screen in five different colors and fonts.



WTF. That's disgusting.

I miss atmospheric dungeon crawling. Interesting stories that came with 10 pages of lore in the manual. Minimal loot, minimal build structure. You actually walk around like a normal person instead of being an autocast bot destroyer of worlds.

God I'm fucking old, and I'm even that old.

This is probably why I like Diablo 1 more than 2. Nothing in the arpg sphere was made for me after 2.

 

[Grotesque]

Diablo IV - the corridor simulator



why in this game & D3 and honestly, mostly other games, the map design is corridors, like you are in a cave or something? some corridor sare narrower than others, but still corridors.

what happened to maps that are just wide plains with different features and points of interests?

just look at these open maps from Divine Divinity where you can go anywhere and have the feeling of real exploration

Why didn't they make the same style of maps for Diablo 4?

How is the dungeon map design in D4 for the non-cave locations?

 

[Kjaska]

GW2 did a good job with level scaling.

And GW2 suffered from the same issue D4 is going to have: you feel no fucking character progression. It also featured no discernible classes, no interesting itemization and some of the most boring talent trees I've ever seen. It should never be brought up as an example of something done right.

Does it really take years of playing to understand the systems well enough to make a viable build that can complete most if not all end game content?

You'll be able to make trash builds that can clear the campaign fairly easily. It will require more knowledge and experience to create something that can get into red maps. It will require a lot of skill/research and practice in order to make something that can actually get into t15s on day 2 reliably and be able to kill some of the basic bosses. There was one young player who started fairly late into the game's lifespan and became the top2 player overall, but it still took him more than a year to get there and thousands of hours of practice.

 

[Dadd]

That hardly makes it a puzzle game.

edit: and "major gimmick"? Eh. They don't even sell it as "puzzles" in that image. If you play Nox expecting puzzles to be a major experience in the game, you'll be sorely disappointed.

Are you guys slow or didn't play Nox at all, switches, elevators, caves, hidden buttons, environmental manipulation with spells and all that shit is in the game and the main way to progress in a lot of levels. It's not THE MAIN THING, but it's the thing that separated it from Diablo at the time.

Another thing that separates it from Diablo is how the main character lives in a trailer. Does that make Nox a trailer resident simulator?

 

[Tyranicon]

why in this game & D3 and honestly, mostly other games, the map design is corridors, like you are in a cave or something? some corridor sare narrower than others, but still corridors.

Exploration stopped being a design pillar in arpgs a long time ago.

It's all about dopamine hits from leveling up, using the skill tree, getting new items, etc. Gameplay loop gravitates towards quickly clearing maps without stopping, over and over again, to increase power level marginally.

Big numbers go up.

I never understood the point of making games that are more like jobs, but without the paycheck.

 

[Dadd]

Except with level scaling it's like walking up a descending escalator

 

[BlackAdderBG]

It will require a lot of skill/research and practice in order to make something that can actually get into t15s on day 2 reliably and be able to kill some of the basic bosses.

It boggles my mind people here are complaining that you have to work with systems that are slightly more complex than mobile game, that it would require investment of time and practice to understand them, that having more than 3 different numbers equates to PHD in mathematics. that getting better in a game by playing it and diving in to the game mechanics is needed to "beat it". Fuckin storyfags are the bane of good games.

Exploration stopped being a design pillar in arpgs a long time ago.

Exploration died with internet.

Another thing that separates it from Diablo is how the main character lives in a trailer. Does that make Nox a trailer resident simulator?

Is the trailer integral part of the gameplay? If it is then it can be trailer resident simulator.

 

[Yosharian]

Installing Open Beta now.

 

[ArchAngel]

Installing Open Beta now.

I have it ready for tomorrow on Xbox. I will not bother trying it on my old PC where with anything younger than 5 years I am happy if I get around 30 FPS.

 

[Reever]

I seriously doubt this part will age well: https://youtu.be/37gTTnYhTs0?t=434

I know this is quin but is he really expecting blizzard to not sell wing cosmetics? I expect Tyrael's wings to be in the first Battle Pass since they know that will sell like rocket cakes.

 

[abija]

You get 60 fps on a 9yr old pc or smthing.

 

[ArchAngel]

TLDR: He does not like it

 

[Arbiter]

Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
cool story bro

Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
Bad Spelling

Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
retadred

Kjaska reacted to your post in the thread Diablo IV - coming June 6th with
retadred

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[BlackAdderBG]

TLDR: He does not like it

Totally agree with him about the looks of the game- "great looking generic". It doesn't help half the assets are from D3 and Immortal.
Also not changing the look/text of the items that drop on the ground immediately made the game feel old, like I was playing D3.

 

[Kjaska]

Kripp was exaggerating (or he lost his marbles and doesn't realize that his statements about barb starting hard and getting stronger with levels contradict his theory about level scaling and skills only improving a char by max 10%)

Kripp wasn't talking about Barb getting stronger through levels. He postulated that because Barb gets more 2-handers to wield than every other class and because 2-handers get bigger bonuses on their legendary effects and because you get stronger mainly through your gear, that potentially Barb could become the best scaling class in the the absolute end-game. It's still high copium.

My favorite scuffed kiwi Quin69 covers it very well.

Quin is the biggest clown on twitch. He also killed 4 of the 7 Ubers on SSFHC with a build he made himself, which is a feat 99% of the PoE playerbase cannot claim. He can be insightful, when he is earnest. He is to gamers what Trump is to "real" conservatives: you don't like him and don't want to associate with him, but you agree with him on many points.

tl;dw:

- D4 shouldn't be compared to D3 or PoE
- Quin wants a game that you can play for thousands of hours. Things like lore and atmosphere do not concern him
- Quin makes an argument for the Beta being a very good indicator of what to expect in the end-game, despite it only going up to lvl25. The only big hope for improvements is the Paragon System and the Season Mechanics.
- the visual presentation of the game is amazing
- you can draw a penis in the snow
- Quin compares the aesthetics of the game favorably against the "anime" of Lost Ark and the "too much" of PoE
- Quin notes the suspicious absence of naked corpses (present in D1/D2/PoE), despite having high fidelity gore on display everywhere
- boss music was mediocre
- Quin downplays the importance of lore and cutscenes in a game of this nature, but gives them a high rating for what it's worth
- Lilith's voice acting is very good
- Quin reminds everyone of his Diablo:Immoral misadventure and tells a cautionary tale of how Blizzard might and probably will rape your wallet down the line
- UI is mind-bogglingly bad
- itemization gets boring very fast
- some legendary affixes feel mandatory
- Quin feels like there is never anything to "solve" in D4 with a character build, unlike you would normally do in an aRPG (no resists, attributes etc)
- Quin feels the crafting is very similar to D3 and hopes there will be more interesting ways of crafting in the Season Mechanics
- skill tree is too simple (only 2 options per skill vs 5 from D3)
- Quin doesn't have high hopes for the Paragon boards to save the limited skill tree
- Barbarian Arsenal System feels very passive, doesn't give you the feeling that you're actually customizing anything
- Quin thinks the Sorceress system is much better designed compared to Barbarian
- Quin thinks the Sorceress system could be transplanted on every other class and it would be a net benefit
- Gameplay/Combat feels very good. Responsive and smooth.
- Quin likes the setup/pay-off flow of the combat
- Quin dislikes the level-scaling. He says "fuck the lvl3 guy". Quin wants them to disable the level-scaling at least for the higher level difficulties.
- Quin dislikes the "claim your reward" type of progression/content that happens only in the UI
- pack size/monster density is too uneven and/or should be higher at least for events
- currently you can repeat events by logging out and logging in again, which he wants disabled
- game is way too easy, you can facetank everything even on veteran mode
- skill slots are too limiting
- no grace period is a massive problem for Hardcore Mode
- Quin feels that the Health Potion and the pick-ups are too generous and eliminate all tension
- the open world feels much more WoW than Diablo
- Quin is afraid that D4 will have a bunch of MMO elements he dislikes, namely Dailies/Weeklies and similar chore activities
- dungeons are very repetitive and annoying
- Quin likes that the Paragon system will have a cap instead of the infinite grind of D3
- Quin thinks that the end-game would be improved if D4 had aspirational static bosses or similarly difficult content
- Quin is optimistic about the Seasonal content of D4 based on an interview with one of the devs he isn't allowed to post on YouTube for some reason
- Quin wants an SSF flag for bragging purposes
- Quin concludes that D4 is going to be at least good for one playthrough with the potential to be a great game to play every season

 

[Gargaune]

Hello,

Please tell me if Diablo IV will:
- support fully offline single-player?
- require some stupid Blizzard account or other rubbish like that?
- allow modders to fix its heartbreaking lack of bewbage?

Thanks in advance,
Guy who last played Diablo II decades ago

 

[Kjaska]

Hello,

Please tell me if Diablo IV will:
- support fully offline single-player?
- require some stupid Blizzard account or other rubbish like that?
- allow modders to fix its heartbreaking lack of bewbage?

Thanks in advance,
Guy who last played Diablo II decades ago

no
yes
no (apparently you get some underboob by default)

 

[Gargaune]

no
yes
no (apparently you get some underboob by default)

Thanks! I'm out.

 

[Grotesque]

why spells/skill effects don't have dynamic lightning?

in the majority of beta gameplay footage, there is none!?

 

[Tyranicon]

- dungeons are very repetitive and annoying

I feel like this is a big problem.

Is this actually a big problem, or do people who play these games (ie go through 60 dungeons in a row) not care?

 

[Immortal]

- dungeons are very repetitive and annoying

I feel like this is a big problem.

Is this actually a big problem, or do people who play these games (ie go through 60 dungeons in a row) not care?

What does "Repetitive and Annoying" mean?
When you rely on RNG generation for corridors.. Repetitive is kinda a given.. There is no dungeon in Diablo 2 that I wouldn't call "Repetitive"

Annoying is a product of Corridor Layout and Enemy Types I guess..
I think every ARPG needs to have a few of the "annoying dungeons" it builds community around skipping or rushing them as fast as possible and makes for good memes.. if ALL dungeons are "annoying" well..

 

[Jimeh]

Hobo Elf,
Well, it seems sort of hard to believe that the locals killed the hard stuff and forgot the easy stuff, but I'm happy to suspend disbelief here.

Think of it this way: there's a reason why goblins and gibberlings are on the same tier as giant rats and spiders. They are literally vermin, not an existential threat. You can thin them out but getting rid of them entirely is impossible. But you can cause predators to go extinct.

Sure, but there's also nothing in the rulebook that says there is any limit to how many dragons I can put in my campaign. You could walk out of Candlekeep and have to fight Sarevok right away or some of those Wyverns came south a little so your first fight is 6 of them.

The point is scaling encounters to your level is always happening whether its hand placed or automatic. In the case of Diablo4 it's obviously the correct decision to have a method of automatic scaling in order to maximize the endgame content. There's over 140 dungeons in the game and you can grind all of them at endgame. You also unlock a permanent affix to put on weapons for the first clear of every dungeon so there's a very meaningful reward there.

I mean, fuck, this sites slogan is "doesn't scale to your level" and I get it. I prefer a goblin to be a goblin forever and to fight harder monsters rather than scaled monsters as the game progresses.

But, at the same time, It wouldn't break the lore to leave Candlekeep in Baldurs Gate and walk straight into a Red Dragon. Is it just luck that in RPGs you always run into enemies appropriate to your level? All BG1 and you never run into any level 20 monsters yet wander down to Amn and suddenly you'll never find a level 1?

Like, it's just a game. You just suspend disbelief. Ian McKellen plays a wizard in LOTR but do you think he goes home and shoots lightning bolts into his boyfriends asshole? Just accept the fantasy. Focus on the story and the sound and graphics and just enjoy the ride without picking it to bits. There's plenty of immersion if you allow it.

Power leveling is fun but you'd have to agree it's breaking the game. I beat BG with a solo character because, for some reason, you get 6 times more XP when you don't have to share it around. But if you think about the roleplay, how does that make any sense? Surely there would be more experience to be had from working as a team and establishing some party coordination and tactics?

I don't think there's really any downside. In games there's sort of no wrong answers, lots of ways to do the same things. PoE removing gold and using ID scrolls and stuff for money is perfectly valid but there's nothing inherently wrong with good old gold, either.

If you make act 1 of 5 exclusively for level 1 to 20 then at end game you end up with only 20% of the content. I think its better to keep it open and let people do any of the 140 dungeons in the whole game rather than just the 25 in act 5. It's easy to see the reasoning behind the decisions made for D4.

At the end of the day, you can play whatever you want. If you're still having fun with PoE or something then that's awesome and you should keep playing. But I've played everything and I'm bored of everything and can't wait to play more D4 because it's a new game with its own take on things and it all seems to work really well for the type of game it is.

Dragons are rare. Goblins are not. The likelihood of randomly meeting those low level monsters is a lot higher than most high level monsters simply due to population. In fact most dragons are rather lazy once they have their hoard and rarely leave their cave so usually you have to seek them out. That is true for many other powerful monsters as well.

See the above post. At the end of the day, it's all up to the DM. I doubt you'd want to play with a DM who doesn't scale encounters to your level.

Over 1 million people played the pre-order beta. Must be doing something right?

This argument? Here, of all places?

It's all subjective, anyway.

No amount of simping will turn shit into not-shit. And you finding enjoyment in shit is not a subjective thing, it is called being an untermensch of low standards.

What's your reply to the argument?

If I like "shit" then I wouldn't want it to be turned into "not-shit", would I?

 

[Reinhardt]

no resists

wait, wut

 

[Hobo Elf]

Think of it this way: there's a reason why goblins and gibberlings are on the same tier as giant rats and spiders. They are literally vermin, not an existential threat. You can thin them out but getting rid of them entirely is impossible. But you can cause predators to go extinct.

Sure, but there's also nothing in the rulebook that says there is any limit to how many dragons I can put in my campaign. You could walk out of Candlekeep and have to fight Sarevok right away or some of those Wyverns came south a little so your first fight is 6 of them.

The point is scaling encounters to your level is always happening whether its hand placed or automatic. In the case of Diablo4 it's obviously the correct decision to have a method of automatic scaling in order to maximize the endgame content. There's over 140 dungeons in the game and you can grind all of them at endgame. You also unlock a permanent affix to put on weapons for the first clear of every dungeon so there's a very meaningful reward there.

Technically you could do whatever you want, but generally people try to design something that makes sense. Throwing enemies without thought at the player is what we call bad game design. In an RPG where having convincing world building is a very important part of the experience it's a death sentence.

Diablo 4 doesn't scale encounters, it scales enemies. Which as I already explained is very different. D2 is one of the longest lasting games in the industry and it did it without having endlessly scaling content.

 

[Yosharian]

The fucking beta download keeps stalling godammit

Anyone else having this issue?

Edit: hmm seems to be working ok now