Diablo IV

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

SomeGuyWithAnOpinion, you didn't need to delete that comment. It was a valid point.

I deleted it because I double-posted, so I moved the original comment into the second post, and deleted the first.

It's still there.

 

[Fedora Master]

There are codexers who like Dragon Age, Fallout 3, and Skyrim.

And we don't want them here either.

 

[KIss My Ass]

There are codexers who like Dragon Age, Fallout 3, and Skyrim.

And we don't want them here either.

What's this we shit? You got a turd in your pocket? Just accept that people have different opinions. Get over it Butthurt Master.

 

[Zlaja]

the experience was more about completing the dungeon with what you have, rather than mindlessly and endlessly farming the best gear. It's almost like a primitive roguelike. Diablo 2 shat all over that by making death meaningless

Death is not totally meaningless in D2. Even if you disregard hardcore you lose a certain amount of your gold and all your gear drops on the ground and has to be retrieved manually, which is inconvienient enough to make you groan when dying. If you choose to have your gear brought to you instead, then all monsters and dungeon layout respawns. And on higher difficulties you also lose some xp towards next lv. Not the best system, but it's something.

In D1, you simply load your latest save and that's it.

Also, can people stop bitching about this hack & slash loot fest being...you know...a hack & slash loot fest. There're legitimite complaints like the annoying level-scaling and always online crap, but whining about Diablo being Diablo in a fucking Diablo thread is just tiresome.

 

[Ryzer]

You can be an Hack&Slash and have interesting things going on for it like you know that game Westwood made called Nox.
But I guess, you need to be Westwood in order to make something remotely original from an uninspired genre.
Too bad, there is no Nox clone, otherwise they would have seen that H&S games can be more than piñatas.
So I found this complain about H&S loot fest entirely legitimate.

 

[Zlaja]

You can be an Hack&Slash and have interesting things going on for it like you know that game Westwood made called Nox.
But I guess, you need to be Westwood in order to make something remotely original from an uninspired genre.
Too bad, there is no Nox clone, otherwise they would have seen that H&S games can be more than piñatas.
So I found this complain about H&S loot fest entirely legitimate.

Yeah, let's mention Nox for like 16th time in this thread and pretend that was the only time someone tried to do something original in the genre. Dungeon Siege went with party-based hack & slash, Titan Quest let you mix & match between various skill trees freely, Sacred went with open world hack & slash, and Divine Divinity mixed the Diablo formula with traditional questing and dialogue trees.

Plenty of tries to innovate with mixed results.

 

[Kjaska]

I would trust Alk's expertise when it comes to melee characters:

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

Death is not totally meaningless in D2. Even if you disregard hardcore you lose a certain amount of your gold and all your gear drops on the ground and has to be retrieved manually, which is inconvienient enough to make you groan when dying. If you choose to have your gear brought to you instead, then all monsters and dungeon layout respawns. And on higher difficulties you also lose some xp towards next lv. Not the best system, but it's something.

In D1, you simply load your latest save and that's it.

Death being annoying is not the same as it being genuinely inconcenient.

"The level layout will respawn"

So the game punishes you with more grind for dying while grinding. Woohoo

The problem with D2 (and the death mechanics play into this) is that everything is focused towards the item grinding. Item grinding is not seriously affected by dying, and there's no real serious penalty for doing so.

D2 in Hardcore mode is a lot more punishing and is, IMO, the only fun way to actually play the game.

I know that "in D1 you just reload", but they could have built on this and made it work better and discourage save scumming. Instead they went on with the bad design of focusing everything towards items.

D1 is a flawed game, but ANY sort of restart/doover mechanic works better than...whatever D2 had.

Also, can people stop bitching about this hack & slash loot fest being...you know...a hack & slash loot fest. There're legitimite complaints like the annoying level-scaling and always online crap, but whining about Diablo being Diablo in a fucking Diablo thread is just tiresome.

Calling a bad game bad because it's in a genre known for bad games is legitimate.

 

[Zlaja]

The problem with D2 (and the death mechanics play into this) is that everything is focused towards the item grinding

But you don't really have to spend massive amount of time grinding for ultra epic gear. The goal for most people is, after all, to beat the game on all difficulties (or just normal mode even), and then either move on or play a different class. The only time you're really required to do some grinding is when playing a melee build and going from nightmare mode to hell mode. And even that transition can be made much faster if you have some great gear in your shared stash you got while playing a previous character. You can also trade for some stuff (not my cup of tee tho).

Trying to level up to LV.99 and get best gear possible is just extra autism mode. In all my years of playing D2, I have never spend that much time just grinding same boss/location over and over again to maximize my chance of phat loot drops.

 

[ArchAngel]

@King Crispy are you going to bro-op Diablo 4 with me on thursday? I think I'm going to play as a Wizard or Rogue as my first character. What about you?

I'm going to wait until this is available for free from Game Pass then I'll laugh seeing how stupid it is.

That depends on if Microsoft manages to buy Activision and still it would make everyone that cashed out 70 to 90$ angry

 

[d1r]

One step closer to in-game ads.

 

[Fedora Master]

I would trust Alk's expertise when it comes to melee characters:

Typical. The modern Blizzshart audience is even too lazy to figure out the game on their own, they immediately look for "da best builds" before the game is even out.

Blizzard Fans deserve the rope.

 

[Perkel]

Yeah seriously the best part about playing new games is exploring what it offers. The moment you search for build you lose that fun and you are playing effectively someone else game not yours.

This goes double for ARPG like diablo.

 

[Kjaska]

This less an aRPG and more an MMO like Lost Ark is. If you enjoy building your own character above all else, then I suggest playing something else instead. That said, just because there are guides out there and people who prefer to follow them, doesn't mean that you are somehow now forbidden from ignoring all that info and just building your character yourself.

 

[lycanwarrior]

https://wccftech.com/review/diablo-iv-great-albeit-safe-hack-n-slash-action/

That said, it sticks a little bit too closely to the rulebook, which works against it in a few areas. The open world is not as dynamic as one could have hoped, with events getting repetitive rather quickly. The side content doesn't provide any real narrative juice, and the endgame replayability may not be as deep as needed due to limited randomization and lack of certain features.

 

[Perkel]

First reviews are dropping, predictable 9/10 across.

This less an aRPG and more an MMO like Lost Ark is. If you enjoy building your own character above all else, then I suggest playing something else instead.

Spoken like someone who didn't try it. There is nothing lost arc about it and build complexity is pretty great.

 

[ind33d]

D4 doesn't have a Horadric Cube? Is this a fucking joke?

 

[Hellion]

From what I recall in the closed beta back in November, you could craft/buy horadric cube-like recipes at specific vendors, like adding sockets or changing legendary suffixes

 

[Perkel]

D4 doesn't have a Horadric Cube? Is this a fucking joke?

It doesn't. Vendors are doing similar role.

 

[Morgoth]

Diablo 4 review-in-progress: The transition to live service buries what makes it great​

By Tyler Colp
published about 1 hour ago
Clicking demons for the live service of it all.

(Image credit: Activision Blizzard)



When it comes to clicking demons until glowing loot pops out, Diablo 4 is the most Diablo any Diablo has ever been. That delicious loop that's fed Diablo players for years is all over Diablo 4, as it has been in every other Diablo game, even Diablo Immortal. Nobody does it quite like Blizzard: it takes seconds for your character to blanket the screen in light, leveling up and earning their first skill point—the first bite in a buffet of class-based abilities.
The more I play Diablo 4, the more I'm reminded of Warcraft's transition from a real-time strategy series to an MMO, a genre shift that capitalized on people's desire to embed themselves directly into the fabric of Blizzard's fantasy world and live in it. Even though I started with WoW and then discovered the series backwards, I can't deny that some of Warcraft's original identity was lost in the process.
Diablo 4 feels like an echo of that same point in history. It may still be an isometric hack-and-slasher but all of its familiar systems exist in a significantly different context. Diablo 3 was a live service game before "live service" was a term anyone knew; Diablo 4 embraces live service from the start. The tormented world of Sanctuary is now a platform for Diablo's endless grind, a playground for legendary heroes to earn a few tiers on their battle pass. It's not sacrilege for a series that has always thrived on this type of play to expand on infinite repetition, but by reconfiguring its entire structure around what used to be relegated to the endgame, Diablo 4 sacrifices a significant part of its appeal for me.
I've completed the six-act campaign and spent over 20 hours carving through dungeons and am finding it hard to continue in an action RPG that spends so much of its time teasing the next thing instead of indulging in the present.
Diablo 4 is like playing a new MMO expansion where every piece of loot is a temporary step towards the next. Instead of picking up rare and legendary items that modify your skills and encourage you to play your class differently for a session or two, you're mostly given meager hors d'oeuvres for the feast to come at level 50 and onwards.

Tonal troubles​

(Image credit: Activision Blizzard)
Diablo 4's RPG structure is far too transparent for any of it to feel elegantly rooted in the fiction.
After the events of Reaper of Souls, Sanctuary has become a bit of a Diablo 4: Apocalypse Reloaded situation. What's left of the human population survive in ramshackled settlements and dusty cathedrals. Most of Diablo 4's campaign drenches you in human misery through side quests and dungeons that are grotesque to the point of absurdity. I couldn't walk to a town without stepping (and inexplicably exploding) the half-eaten remains of a horse or passing by bodies impaled onto wooden spikes.
Diablo 4's tonal and aesthetic "return to darkness"—a tagline that promises Diablo 3's biggest haters that this one is for big strong adults who liked Diablo 2—is so afraid of levity and color that it misses what made Diablo 2 and 3 so evocative. Diablo has always had to balance its dark fantasy world with your character's ridiculous presence in it. As you fling godlike powers at buckets of demons and the occasional treasure goblin, the previous games, whether by the technical limitations of the time or differing creative directions, found a way to make the eternal conflict between heaven and hell worth caring about—largely by injecting surrealist art into otherwise mundane environments and having characters like Deckard Cain provide a hit of gravitas.
Somehow Diablo 4 didn't give me a truly threatening villain or dungeons with demon statues puking blood red lava until the last third of the campaign. If I wanted to fall asleep in gray dungeons and abandoned cathedrals, there are plenty of other action RPGs out there. I come to Diablo to feel like I'm cutting demons apart in a death metal band's airbrushed album art. This is a series where the final boss is literally in the title; the lack of subtlety is its strength.
Diablo 4 adopts a muted aesthetic and a slow-burn narrative that seems desperate to mimic Game of Thrones or Sony's God of War reboot, but it's constantly in tension with how massively unsubtle the series' worldbuilding has always been. "It was probably demons," would have been an exceptionally useful dialogue choice to have for every person who asked me if I could investigate what happened to their loved ones. And, I'm sorry, I can't take it seriously when a sad quest where I end the life of a tortured man tied to a tree ends by giving me the spear I used as a temporary weapon upgrade.

(Image credit: Activision Blizzard)
Only when Diablo 4 embraces the over-the-top horror of a world being ripped apart by two selfish factions is it able to wield this stronger focus on narrative with its well-oiled systems. One early dungeon set in a monastery had me chasing after a lead on Lilith, the demonic mother of Sanctuary who is positioned early on as the primary villain. I expected demons and dead monks but what I found were eerily empty hallways with no enemies in sight. In the distance I heard doors slam shut and screaming just outside my view. I was following in the bloody footsteps of a murderer, like I was chasing after another Diablo player gone rogue. The complete silence, with only the sound of my character's footsteps echoing through the halls, made for a surprisingly chilling sequence.
Blizzard's command of Diablo and its ability to upend years of well-established expectations rarely appears in the quests scattered around this world. Everyone has a few lines of dialogue before they send you to a dungeon or a location where you conveniently pass by some open world activities, like randomly spawning world events or objective-driven Strongholds. Diablo's RPG structure is far too transparent for any of it to feel elegantly rooted in the fiction.

Locked in​

I wish it was easier to ignore Diablo 4's tonal stumbles once you're properly knee-deep in demons. I played rogue, Diablo 4's ranged and melee hybrid class that echoes both demon hunters and amazons from the previous games. I was a fan of Diablo 3's runes, which let you swap skills and modify them on the fly, and Diablo 4's skill tree suggests a similar level of customization. You choose from a healthy variety of simple abilities at the start and then work your way into passive skills that augment your attacks with status afflictions.
My rogue's arrows inject shadow bombs into her enemies that explode when they die, turning large packs of mobs into firework shows. Against single targets, I can lace my arrows with poison to keep ticking damage on a boss while I dodge their MMO-like, telegraphed attacks. There are few things as satisfying in videogames as setting off a chain reaction of kills and damage numbers in a horde of demons.

(Image credit: Activision Blizzard)
By level 30, I was deep enough in the skill tree that respeccing incurred a significant gold cost and risk. The most build-defining skills sit at the top of the skill tree, which also happens to be the points you can't individually refund because later skills unlock based on what you chose. You have to reset the entire thing to radically alter your playstyle.
Just like the repetitive side quests, I imagine this serves the balance of the endgame, locking you into a build so you can't swap for every challenge you face. But the appeal of Diablo for me is the sheer amount of creativity you can apply to the skills in your arsenal.
I love my current build, but what if there's something even better? In the past, rare and legendary items gave you free skill points and modifications to your abilities to encourage you to experiment. Now, the powerful items that don't come with synergistic stats are a waste of inventory space. You can craft your own legendaries by completing dungeons for class-specific affixes or by extracting affixes and moving them to other items, but it ignores the fun of a loot game: the surprise.
Nothing has convinced me the endgame is so brilliant that it's worth stripping everything fun out of the leveling process.
It's possible that you'll earn enough gold or legendary items to loosen these restrictions in the endgame activities. Diablo 4 spawns randomized events that you can complete every day for a sack of items and higher world tier difficulties increase your gold gain. But, once again, Diablo 4 sacrifices one of Diablo 3's strongest aspects to prepare you for the endgame, where the real game begins, apparently.
So far, nothing has convinced me the endgame is so brilliant that it's worth stripping everything out of the initial leveling process. The thin storytelling doesn't help either—thankfully you can skip it on subsequent characters. Diablo 4 is a live service game that puts an insulting amount of effort into trying to convince you it's not. It's backwards; trying to build up to the most robust part of itself instead of starting with it. The moment entering a fresh dungeon feels more like a chore than a ride is the moment Diablo loses me, and I've been worryingly close to that feeling in my time with it so far.
An exciting, modern version of Diablo is in here—I can see parts of it poking through the surface—but I'm starting to lose patience waiting for it to show its face.

Just stop beating around the bush and say it's shit, you paid shills.

 

[Yosharian]

This guy seems to know what he is talking about?

 

[Dexter]

I'm not watching Blizzard shit, but lol is this true?

 

[Perkel]

​

Just stop beating around the bush and say it's shit, you paid shills.

I mean it's good from what i played in beta. Like really good. Obviously it was only up to lvl25 but from what I played it was great. Also live service is strange argument in arpg genre where live service is bread and butter. I don't remember any arpg that was released and abandoned just like that. Spending 100s of hours is part of diablo likes.

I'm not watching Blizzard shit, but lol is this true?

Yes Gamesradar had booked devs for QA where gamesradar readers were supposed to ask questions. They got 0 questions so they faked them.

 

[mediocrepoet]

This guy talks about all sorts of stuff. Didn't have much time, but the discussion of monetization and how easy it is is probably worthwhile for most people here if you're interested at all in the game. Video is timestamped to the monetization talk, the concerns about difficulty is right after.

 

[ArchAngel]

You can be an Hack&Slash and have interesting things going on for it like you know that game Westwood made called Nox.
But I guess, you need to be Westwood in order to make something remotely original from an uninspired genre.
Too bad, there is no Nox clone, otherwise they would have seen that H&S games can be more than piñatas.
So I found this complain about H&S loot fest entirely legitimate.

I have no idea why people mention Nox all the time. I tried it twice and it was shit both times. It not a Diablo like.