Diablo IV

[abija]

The casual audacity to want a decent build without having to trade after spending hundred hours in a char.

 

[HammyTheFat]

This is a game I see myself returning to for years just like I did for the last three.

people are going to play d2 even after d4 is dead (d3 already is).

Oh no D4 is going to die after a decade? What a total failure!

2 months at best

 

[Saravan]

After the wonderful experience that is PoE trade and the incredible success of D3 AH I can't imagine why a developer would increase drop rates and block trade.

Saravan
What's with this deal of listing random features of some games and considering them required. It's a different game and the systems combined are a step up in depth over diablo games (while still far away from PoE). How edgy do you have to be to list stuff like "max 2 sockets" ?

Repetitive and obnoxious dungeon mechanics -> huge issue. Everything you listed there, irrelevant crap.

These are not random features, they are all features that add depth to itemisation which greatly affects build diversity (besides simplistic skill tree). Itemisation is key to longevity for any ARPG and a fundamental issue for D4 is that these things will never be fixed because the game simply wasn't designed for it. Max 2 sockets mean for instance that there is no possibility to introduce runewords or a similar system, it also narrows the customization of items with gems or jewels (but these don't exist either in D4).

Understandable, however, that a D4-enjoyer doesn't get this. D2 isn't perfect, but provided a perfect base to expand upon, going the opposite direction is a straight downgrade.

 

[mediocrepoet]

After the wonderful experience that is PoE trade and the incredible success of D3 AH I can't imagine why a developer would increase drop rates and block trade.

Saravan
What's with this deal of listing random features of some games and considering them required. It's a different game and the systems combined are a step up in depth over diablo games (while still far away from PoE). How edgy do you have to be to list stuff like "max 2 sockets" ?

Repetitive and obnoxious dungeon mechanics -> huge issue. Everything you listed there, irrelevant crap.

These are not random features, they are all features that add depth to itemisation which greatly affects build diversity (besides simplistic skill tree). Itemisation is key to longevity for any ARPG and a fundamental issue for D4 is that these things will never be fixed because the game simply wasn't designed for it. Max 2 sockets mean for instance that there is no possibility to introduce runewords or a similar system, it also narrows the customization of items with gems or jewels (but these don't exist either in D4).

Understandable, however, that a D4-enjoyer doesn't get this. D2 isn't perfect, but provided a perfect base to expand upon, going the opposite direction is a straight downgrade.

I agree with most of what you said, but they actually could change that in an update or expansion. D2 didn't have runewords at first, they were introduced in... the expansion. Go figure.

You're comparing a newly released game with one that had literally decades of updates and a full retail expansion.

Anyway, the bigger issue is level scaling. That would require either new non-scaling areas introduced or a total overhaul of the existing content.

 

[Saravan]

After the wonderful experience that is PoE trade and the incredible success of D3 AH I can't imagine why a developer would increase drop rates and block trade.

Saravan
What's with this deal of listing random features of some games and considering them required. It's a different game and the systems combined are a step up in depth over diablo games (while still far away from PoE). How edgy do you have to be to list stuff like "max 2 sockets" ?

Repetitive and obnoxious dungeon mechanics -> huge issue. Everything you listed there, irrelevant crap.

These are not random features, they are all features that add depth to itemisation which greatly affects build diversity (besides simplistic skill tree). Itemisation is key to longevity for any ARPG and a fundamental issue for D4 is that these things will never be fixed because the game simply wasn't designed for it. Max 2 sockets mean for instance that there is no possibility to introduce runewords or a similar system, it also narrows the customization of items with gems or jewels (but these don't exist either in D4).

Understandable, however, that a D4-enjoyer doesn't get this. D2 isn't perfect, but provided a perfect base to expand upon, going the opposite direction is a straight downgrade.

I agree with most of what you said, but they actually could change that in an update or expansion. D2 didn't have runewords at first, they were introduced in... the expansion. Go figure.

You're comparing a newly released game with one that had literally decades of updates and a full retail expansion.

Anyway, the bigger issue is level scaling. That would require either new non-scaling areas introduced or a total overhaul of the existing content.

It's not an unreasonable standard to expect a triple A company to leverage good ideas and mechanics from previous installments of a game when they also ask for 70 USD. I honestly find this argument a bit of a cope precisely because D3 itemisation is still garbage even after all its changes, which D4 itemisation is clearly based upon.

Sure, in theory they can introduce some of these changes. In theory Blizzard North can also swoop in and take over the development. I also don't see how they can reconcile the idea of level scaling with, for example, not making early-game / low level items perpetually useless as you progress. You aren't going to fix the biggest issues concerning itemisation with an expansion because we are talking about fundamental issues in the game design and not a balance oversight.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

I agree with most of what you said, but they actually could change that in an update or expansion. D2 didn't have runewords at first

First runewords are terrible system that killed a lot of D2 itemization. Second I highly doubt they can change the item's affixes without codding the game from scratch, the best D4 can become is D3 pre-smart loot. Majority of D4 item affixes are too specific and the classes are too broad. For example all characters benefit from Cooldown reduction so any item that can roll it you want it. Same with all damage reduction , skills, health etc. modifiers. So you end up with every build wanting the same items only difference is the legendary power on them. They can improve it by at least doubling the skill tree and make the new skills benefit form broad modifiers, like skill that scales with Wisdom for example or skill that benefits from mana regeneration for it's damage etc. Anything that is not a top down build that the developer created. That ofc will not happen as seen by D3 and D4 nerfs over the years, when a build was made by players and wasn't part of the devs ideas it gets nerfed to unusability. Only approved fun is allowed.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I agree with most of what you said, but they actually could change that in an update or expansion. D2 didn't have runewords at first

First runewords are terrible system that killed a lot of D2 itemization. Second I highly doubt they can change the item's affixes without codding the game from scratch, the best D4 can become is D3 pre-smart loot. Majority of D4 item affixes are too specific and the classes are too broad. For example all characters benefit from Cooldown reduction so any item that can roll it you want it. Same with all damage reduction , skills, health etc. modifiers. So you end up with every build wanting the same items only difference is the legendary power on them. They can improve it by at least doubling the skill tree and make the new skills benefit form broad modifiers, like skill that scales with Wisdom for example or skill that benefits from mana regeneration for it's damage etc. Anything that is not a top down build that the developer created. That ofc will not happen as seen by D3 and D4 nerfs over the years, when a build was made by players and wasn't part of the devs ideas it gets nerfed to unusability. Only approved fun is allowed.

Yeah I didn't like runewords either. It was about that specific claim though. It wasn't a D2 launch feature so acting as if it's impossible to add in post launch is strange, at minimum.

Otherwise, I have no idea but I dont doubt that D4 is mechanically inferior just based on what I saw. But to be fair, D3 started as a complete shit show that got overhauled with an expansion to be fun, if shallow and still with a godawful story, but I look at Diablo more like the evolution of Gauntlet than anything.

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[toro]

... big pile of shit...

Uniques are not really uniques as they will drop with higher level therefore you comparison is retarded.

Items with 725+ power level are end game items. The rest are trash.

 

[Saravan]

... big pile of shit...

Uniques are not really uniques as they will drop with higher level therefore you comparison is retarded.

Items with 725+ power level are end game items. The rest are trash.

What sort of retarded take is this. Having items with MMO-trash 'power level' is the reason why all early game items become instantly useless as you progress. If you find a frostburn or magefist in D2 at normal difficulty that can be a key item that stays with you throughout the game. You don't have to find it once more at hell difficulty just for it to stay relevant.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

... big pile of shit...

Uniques are not really uniques as they will drop with higher level therefore you comparison is retarded.

Items with 725+ power level are end game items. The rest are trash.

What sort of retarded take is this. Having items with MMO-trash 'power level' is the reason why all early game items become instantly useless as you progress. If you find a frostburn or magefist in D2 at normal difficulty that can be a key item that stays with you throughout the game. You don't have to find it once more at hell difficulty just for it to stay relevant.

You got SoJ that is Item level 724 and gives you +1 to all skills, tough luck time to farm it for Item level 725+ where it gives you +2 to skills.

Spoiler

I'm joking, there is no SoJ in D4

 

[Lovely Feather Pillow]

Just in case it wasn’t clear enough who the target audience is

 

[lycanwarrior]

Diablo® IV Crosses $666 Million Sell-Through within Five Days of Launch, Setting New Blizzard All-Time Record

https://investor.activision.com/new...ses-666-million-sell-through-within-five-days

Activision sure loves their "Mark of the Beast" symbolism for some odd reason...

 

[Tehdagah]

Diablo® IV Crosses $666 Million Sell-Through within Five Days of Launch, Setting New Blizzard All-Time Record

https://investor.activision.com/new...ses-666-million-sell-through-within-five-days

Activision sure loves their "Mark of the Beast" symbolism for some odd reason...

But the internet said Blizzard was about to go bankrupted?

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Holy mother of marketing speech and still didn't say any numbers or that it sold better than D3. (coz it didn't). Still funny to listen to retards buying this and making Bobby's yacht jokes feeling smug.

 

[lycanwarrior]

Diablo® IV Crosses $666 Million Sell-Through within Five Days of Launch, Setting New Blizzard All-Time Record

https://investor.activision.com/new...ses-666-million-sell-through-within-five-days

Activision sure loves their "Mark of the Beast" symbolism for some odd reason...

But the internet said Blizzard was about to go bankrupted?

Don't care either way. The old Blizzard died a long time ago.

 

[Saravan]

Diablo® IV Crosses $666 Million Sell-Through within Five Days of Launch, Setting New Blizzard All-Time Record

https://investor.activision.com/new...ses-666-million-sell-through-within-five-days

Activision sure loves their "Mark of the Beast" symbolism for some odd reason...

But the internet said Blizzard was about to go bankrupted?

Don't care either way. The old Blizzard died a long time ago.

Since when is this even an argument? D3 also sold really well, still a garbage game. I'm sensing a lot of redditor aura amongst D4 enjoyers.

 

[abija]

What sort of retarded take is this. Having items with MMO-trash 'power level' is the reason why all early game items become instantly useless as you progress. If you find a frostburn or magefist in D2 at normal difficulty that can be a key item that stays with you throughout the game. You don't have to find it once more at hell difficulty just for it to stay relevant.

Depends on slot and important rolls actually. But keep on codexing.
Probably won't get through, but there are reasons for many of these systems. A "low level" unique that is build defining will be used in D4 until you get a better version of it, same as in D2. The difference is, the ones that aren't that strong enough to overcome a lot of affix difference will still be used in a final build.

Since when is this even an argument? D3 also sold really well, still a garbage game. I'm sensing a lot of redditor aura amongst D4 enjoyers.

People said d3 sold only because of d2 and that d3 and immortal fiascos will bankrupt bliz. Considering the way it's worded it sold less units than D3 but still very profitable.

 

[Saravan]

What sort of retarded take is this. Having items with MMO-trash 'power level' is the reason why all early game items become instantly useless as you progress. If you find a frostburn or magefist in D2 at normal difficulty that can be a key item that stays with you throughout the game. You don't have to find it once more at hell difficulty just for it to stay relevant.

Depends on slot and important rolls actually. But keep on codexing.
Probably won't get through, but there are reasons for many of these systems. A "low level" unique that is build defining will be used in D4 until you get a better version of it, same as in D2. The difference is, the ones that aren't that strong enough to overcome a lot of affix difference will still be used in a final build.

Since when is this even an argument? D3 also sold really well, still a garbage game. I'm sensing a lot of redditor aura amongst D4 enjoyers.

People said d3 sold only because of d2 and that d3 and immortal fiascos will bankrupt bliz. Considering the way it's worded it sold less units than D3 but still very profitable.

Slot and important roll might apply to a handful of uniques (out of like 60-70 in total, which is abysmal to begin with). For the vast majority of items, item power will be the defining factor. It's definitely not anything like D2's take on uniques. In D2, most great uniques are so hard to find that unless you grind yourself to death you are just going to see one or two Griffons, Death's Fathom etc. Regardless of the rolls on these items they will always be great. In D4, the item power severally affects the usability of all items, including uniques. The guy I quoted even admitted himself that anything past a certain item power threshold is automatically trash. But keep on fanboying.

Btw, there is barely any build defining uniques in D4 because for one thing, build diversity is non-existent, and second being that the stat depth in the game simply doesn't provide the necessary complexity for itemisation to be good.

 

[abija]

You are very confused with uniques and item power. They only drop sacred/ancestral and the difference between those isn't that big. Only active weapon slot would make the unique unusable if too low item level.
And the rare ones are super rare, at least atm.

Where did you get those build stats? They all seem fast leveling focused.

 

[Saravan]

You are very confused with uniques and item power. They only drop sacred/ancestral and the difference between those isn't that big. Only active weapon slot would make the unique unusable if too low item level.
And the rare ones are super rare, at least atm.

Where did you get those build stats? They all seem fast leveling focused.

Affix tiers are directly tied to the item power. If the item power is higher past a certain breakpoint, it will affect the range of all the affixes the item has. This includes the uniques, which is why, for example, the unique below with the highest item power has a higher minimum value for thorns damage than what the lowest item power version can possibly roll. This does not happen for D2 uniques.

The result of this system is that chance of the unique being replaced by literally any other item rarity increases by every level as you get items with higher item power. It also makes the 'unique' not actually be particularly unique, because its usefulness has been narrowed to a few levels before monster level scaling becomes an issue.

Yes, in very few instances there might be a handful of uniques, for specific builds, where the unique effect is the only thing that matters, so a low item power unique may still be useful for a longer duration. However, those situations are exceptionally rare in a game that only has approx. 70 uniques in total. Many of which, will never be even relevant to your class or build. Really grasping at straws here.

I haven't touched upon how basic the itemisation is due to lack of stat depth, but that's an entirely different issue.

 

[toro]

You are very confused with uniques and item power. They only drop sacred/ancestral and the difference between those isn't that big. Only active weapon slot would make the unique unusable if too low item level.
And the rare ones are super rare, at least atm.

Where did you get those build stats? They all seem fast leveling focused.

From 11 equipment slots I have uniques in 8 of them. Very rare.

 

[ArchAngel]

It is just the way it is! :D

BTW, what is that WK40 game he references there and is it any good?

 

[abija]

From 11 equipment slots I have uniques in 8 of them. Very rare.

There are some items that barely dropped: Harelquin, Grandfather, etc
Though getting 8 useful uniques for a build is quite impressive, even for the higher drop rate ones.

@Sarava
Yeah uniques are in the 2 last breakpoints, so the difference isn't that big. Even in the example you provided with the chest, the lucky hit has similar range and builds that need it will use that unique until they get a better version of it.
Builds that don't depend on the unique afix might still use it if it has high rolls, which wouldn't happen in D2.

 

[kinzadza]

Good to see codexers finally pushing for diversity.