Diablo with Hellfire vs Diablo 2 with LOD

[agris]

Diablo 1, no hellfire.

What's wrong with Hellfire? from what i know it allowed you to walk faster in towns (which was a great qol),, added two optional dungeons(they're good but nothing amazing, great music though), new class, quests and a bunch of items. You can change difficulty from the start.

I can not see a reason to ever go back to vanilla unless i missing something out that 'ruined' the vanilla experience.

If you want to educate yourself, you can see a lively discussion of their differences here.

There's some mechanical differences that make the overall game easier with Hellfire (start for sorcs, being able to learn apoc for everyone else, runes/pots), but my problem with Hellfire is much more a sum-of-its-parts argument.

The new classes are shoe-horned in, the mechanics made easier, the art and art direction - one of the absolute highlights of OG Diablo - is terrible in the add-on. The creatures and tilesets are so bad, and unlocking / progressing in them is terribly disconnected from the main game story. The runes suck, the new pots suck, etc etc.

To me, appreciation for Hellfire is akin to thinking more is better. More is just more. Diablo 1 is a well crafted, wholly contained and coherent experience - and it's visually captivating. Reminds me of Fallout 1 in that way. Hellfire did not even try to fit into it, and it shows. Once you learn that Blizzard was antagonistic to the very notion of Sierra making Hellfire, and understand that there was almost no working relationship outside of business units, Hellfire as the product I describe above makes even more sense.

 

[octavius]

I'd rather replay Diablo 2. So much loot I never saw despite completing it on Hell with all classes, and then there's also the difference between the various patches.
With Diablo 1 I feel there's nothing new to experience after having completed all three base classes, and I also tried the "secret" classes.

 

[agris]

I'd rather replay Diablo 2. So much loot I never saw despite completing it on Hell with all classes, and then there's also the difference between the various patches.
With Diablo 1 I feel there's nothing new to experience after having completed all three base classes, and I also tried the "secret" classes.

I would argue that's OK - the hallmark of a good game shouldn't be it's ability to addict you to endless replays. Playing each of Diablo 1's classes through to Hell once and then setting it aside until you want to revisit it later is perfectly acceptable. Maybe you never want to revisit it, but if you do it's not out of chemical compulsion owing to unsatiated dopamine receptors, but because you appreciate what it is and think back to it fondly.

Hell, I'd argue that's healthier on top of time better spent.

PS: If you just want to see new items drop, check out Progress Quest. It's practically tailor-made for the D2 crowd!

edit: I don't mean to be ungracious octavius, the PQ mention is mostly tongue in cheek

Spoiler

after I wrote this, I actually checked up on PQ and it turns it a new Windows build was released after 17 years! I currently have a level 3 Double Wookie Bastard Lunatic...

 

[Diggfinger]

I like 1. Such an incredible atmosphere, the first game I really got into as a kid (before Fallout).

The music and sound was haunting - love the baby-cries around level 5.
And the little things, such as random starting quests. Even if the harlequin crest sucked, I loved getting it and restarting the game in hopes I would get it.

I remember being so hyped for 2 it wasnt even funny.
And very disappointed when it finally came out. The levels were just so boring and bland. Except perhaps the last part of Act 1, it was really a step down from the first game.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Tough call. The last time I played through D1 was in 2003. Co-op got ruined by friendly fire. D2 was about the same period. D1 has generally superior art, atmosphere, and spells. Its also more focused. I liked spells being advanced with tomes, and I preferred the more tame items.

D2 much better quests, monsters, bosses, and having different acts were great. Everybody loves Act 2. While I preferred D1 magery, D2 classes added a lot. D1 warrior and rogue were strong early, but finished like glorified gimped sorcerers.

While D1 did some things better, D2 edges it out as better overall. Balance got a bit messed up with LoD and synergies, but it was otherwise net positive.

 

[Dadd]

Act 2 is the worst part of the game, even worse than act 3 or 4. D2's quests aren't better than anything.

 

[Snorkack]

Once you learn that Blizzard was antagonistic to the very notion of Sierra making Hellfire, and understand that there was almost no working relationship outside of business units, Hellfire as the product I describe above makes even more sense.

Source? Sounds like there's an interesting story to be found...

I'd rather replay Diablo 2. So much loot I never saw despite completing it on Hell with all classes, and then there's also the difference between the various patches.
With Diablo 1 I feel there's nothing new to experience after having completed all three base classes, and I also tried the "secret" classes.

And this is exactly why I think D1 was the better game. The older I get, the more I appreciate games that value my time and show most of the good stuff in one or two playthroughs instead of expecting me to grind the lod boss over and over again.

Although to be fair, I think unlike D2, I couldn't stomach a vanilla D1 playthrough thanks to the clunky ui and controls any more. Something like Hell or Beelzebub mod is mandatory imo.

 

[Vic]

Do you guys not have phones?

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

D2. I prefer melee classes, and playing Warrior in D1 is a pain in the ass. Because of all the time you spend walking after ranged enemies that are walking away from you.

 

[Norfleet]

I prefer 1. It has more focus. People compare it to roguelikes but it's more of a Gauntlet clone, and a comfy one at that.

How can it be a Gauntlet clone if it lacks the most important gameplay element of Gauntlet? Remember, don't shoot food!

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I prefer 1. It has more focus. People compare it to roguelikes but it's more of a Gauntlet clone, and a comfy one at that.

How can it be a Gauntlet clone if it lacks the most important gameplay element of Gauntlet? Remember, don't shoot food!

Go into a room, kill all the things in said room, go to the next. Reviews of the day compared it to Gauntlet a lot, although not in a positive light.

 

[Dadd]

Why no Diablo Immortal in the poll?

 

[agris]

Once you learn that Blizzard was antagonistic to the very notion of Sierra making Hellfire, and understand that there was almost no working relationship outside of business units, Hellfire as the product I describe above makes even more sense.

Source? Sounds like there's an interesting story to be found...

Mostly this, with a bit of this as well.

Regarding modern conveniences, check out DevilutionX. It's a faithful source port with all the modern conveniences you want - and they're even optional. There's a link in my signature to a hype post about it.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

As other people said, too much trash mob action in Diablo 2. Diablo 1 is designed in a way that killing every single enemy feels satisfying, while in Diablo 2, the action is just mindless. Also the atmosphere is perfect, while D2 has no atmosphere.

I wouldn't say D2 has no atmosphere, its just that the gameworld is too large, too much trash mob action. It ruins the atmosphere. At some you are fighting like 30 dudes casually and that ruins the atmosphere. You have to use 8 players command if you want it to feel like the original game.
In D1 if you are fighting 30 demons at once, you fucked up your positioning, got into an ambush or are overleveled.

Which brings up another matter... positioning. How you navigate and position yourself in D1 is very important. You need to:
1. Avoid enemy ranged attacks and spells
2. Avoid being mobility-killed by enemy mobs
3. Avoid enemies that are too strong to tackle alongside mobs, before you get rid of the mobs and make it a propa 1v1
4. Chase down ranged enemies capable of fleeing

D1 amps the difficulty through the enviroment as well, starting you with the relatively enclosed and compact levels of the Church Dungeon. Then the further you go down, the more open the levels get and the bigger issues you will have simply chokepointing the enemy.

Meanwhile in D2... a good part of the world is open. Closed, tight dungeons are exception not rule. You also have more mobility because you can run. The issue is that most enemies don't seem to have been designed taking in mind the fact you can run. You can easily outrun like 80% of all types of enemies. Zombie-type enemies were already fodder in D1 and now are super-useless because you can just run up, stunlock and kill. Running is also too trivial, you can practically run to your heart's content, instead of running being something you pull out to get out of serious jams. Because its so easy to just spend all the day running in full heavy plate armor, apparently.

(its also a bit silly that there's no armor vs speed/stamina decision regarding running. Then again, I will never be a fan of Armor = AC systems)

Notice that the hardest fights of D2 come from being somehow denied, unable to run or fully design around running. Duriel's fight, for example, is just you vs Duriel duking it out inside a compact tomb, Duriel has his special Unholy Freeze Aura AND can run fast so he's unkitable. Diablo feels like he was designed for the actual mobility you have in-game, with his Bone Prison, Cold Touch, Fire Nova and Red Lightning Hose attacks. You HAVE to run against Diable and you have to know how, or he will fry your ass.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

So many Diablo threads these days. Makes me think the Codex is secretly enthusiastic about D4. It's probably going to be one of those games that the Codex loves to shit on while secretly playing (like with Skyrim & The Witcher 3).

 

[nlfortier]

I prefer Diablo 2 because of the variety in scenery and dungeon themes. Also, the faster movement speed is nice.

 

[Maxie]

why yes I prefer my games so murky that you're physically incapable of seeing what the fuck is on screen at any given time
thankfully diablo 2 rectified this if only for a handful of chapters (kurast is still unreadable)

 

[Skinwalker]

Diablo 1 without hellfire, which was trash.

They should have remade Diablo 1 first. Neat little game, full of atmosphere.

kurast is still unreadable

The third act is the best-looking level in the game, you retard.

 

[Incendax]

Levels of D1.
Classes of D2.

Generally D1 was a much tighter and more atmospheric game. It wins hands down. But I wouldn't mind the classes of D2 in the game of D1.

 

[Luka-boy]

Garbage poll, op. Sorry for being blunt.

Why there's no option to vote for merely Diablo I / Diablo II ??

Even worse, there is no kingcomrade option.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

But I wouldn't mind the classes of D2 in the game of D1.

Now you're making me wonder if they would work...
Barbarian = Warrior and Hellfire Barbarian, essentially.
Paladin = Essentially D1 Warrior, maybe add more emphasis on spells (Magic-Warrior)
Amazon = Essentially a souped-up Rogue with the possibility of going melee as well, also throwing weapons.
Assassin = Traps might be more interesting in the smaller, more compact D1 enviroment.
Necromancer = Summon-based, use corpses to summon. I think Necro would work very well in D1, maybe nerf corpse explosion to account for the smaller world and slower monsters.
Druid = Transformations and nature-themed spells? I don't see why not.
Sorceress = Sorcerer essentially

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Partially for posterity, but if anyone is looking to play Diablo 1 online and can't connect to Battle.net due to ports 6112-6119 being blocked, I just got in by doing the following:

Apply the official patch v1.09. https://www.moddb.com/games/diablo/downloads/diablo-v109-patch
Enter the game, choose multiplayer and it should start downloading another small update. After it's done, it will still block you, so exit out for now.

Run - cmd and type ipconfig to get your Default Gateway IP address. Should be eight numbers xxx.xxx.x.x
You should also take note of the IPv4 address for LAN. You'll need to input this later.
Copy the Default Gateway IP, and paste it in your web browser to get to your router's settings.
Login (Info/password should be on a sticker somewhere on your router.)
Go into your Firewall and then find Port Forwarding.

For Local LAN server port and IP information, you're gonna want to select your network's name as the device, which can be found in "This PC" under "Network". Note: this setting seems to have unbound itself after I stopped playing for a while. Not sure if that was due to me customizing my network name at some point or some other cause, but regardless, it's something you'll want to remember to verify anytime you leave the game for a long time (weeks/months/years) and plan on returning. Also if you upgrade your PC for that matter. You may need to modify each entry to your new network name and reapply.

Anyway, next you're going to want to select TCP for the protocol. For the IP address, you'll paste in the IPv4 address that you took note of. The starting port will be 6112 and the ending port will be 6119

Next, fill in the Starting RG WAN port as 6112 and the ending RG WAN port to 6119. Leave the Remote Internet IP Address as 0.0.0.0

Hit "Apply" and it will add the new port forwarding rule.


Next, you're going to add another rule but instead of TCP you're going to set the new one to UDP. The rest of the information will be identical to what was written above so just copy it all in. Just remember to hit "Apply" again.
When all's said and done, you should have two rules. Boot up the game and test it out.

Note: You may need to go into Windows Defender Firewall, click on Advanced Settings, right click Inbound Rules and add a new rule. Choose the "Port" option and then TCP, then put in 6112-6119. Name it something sensible. Then add another rule by the same method, but choose UDP instead. After they're both created, right click each of them and hit properties, click the advanced tab and make sure all three boxes (Domain, Private, Public) under "Profiles" are ticked and Allow Edge Traversal while you're at it. Like before, make sure you hit apply. This entire step may not be necessary at all, I tried it before I reapplied my network's name in the router's settings, just figured I'd mention it incase both are needed.

Feels great to slip into my Godly Plate of the Whale again.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

So many Diablo threads these days. Makes me think the Codex is secretly enthusiastic about D4. It's probably going to be one of those games that the Codex loves to shit on while secretly playing (like with Skyrim & The Witcher 3).

For someone who doesn't like the genre the D4 open beta certainly made a better impression than the D1 & D2 demos did back then. Still not enough to want to play it for more than a couple of days anyway.

 

[Radiane]

Diablo 2 is not that bad, with all the different classes and builds and whatnot, but the one thing where they really messed up is the ever respawning enemies whenever you reload your game. Really, what were they thinking?? And, maybe even more baffling, nearly noone (neither here nor anywhere else on the net) seems to be bothered about this "feature". Then again, it has been really long since i last played D2 so not sure if i mix up something
Basically, just because of this, D1 is better

 

[Dadd]

D2 had iconic skills like lightning fury, corpse explosion, blizzard. The first two are among the most satisfying skills to use in any ARPG.