Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[Russia is over. The end.]

Just take a minute and appreciate the fact that some no-name Estonian dude got some oligarch's ear and financing. And then made a game that the entirety of Cucklifornia wasn't able to do in 20 years.

All your false gods Sawyers, Avellones, Zietses, Fargos, all they can do is sniff Robert Kurvitz's balls and ass.

The imagery, the texts, the voice actors quality, the game design, everything is a hundred times better than your mundane fnvs and poes.

Compare this:


To this:


The first one is inane, boring music and picture, bad voice actor reading boringly into the mic. They change the voice actors so you wouldn't fall asleep. It's all meaningless and trite.

The second one grips you immediately, you wanna hear what he's got to say. Instant interest.

That's how do you it. Anyone who says FNV isn't shit is just a fortnite kid from FNV's era. Probably their first video game. Probably haven't played Fallout 1 and 2 even.

 

[Butter]

I'd rather replay Dead Money than Disco Elysium right about now.

Hot take: The ancient reptilian brain and limbic system are the worst written parts of the subconscious.

 

[Prime Junta]

so anyone knows or have a screenshot of what you say to Kim that is super racist to him if you fail the Authority check when you're breakdancing at the Church/Nightclub

Didn’t take a screenie. Told him to DANCE, you yellow monkey fucker. Then I talked to a goddess.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.

 

[Tigranes]

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.

Is the conclusion that only the "why the hell not" patronage of super-rich individuals can create good video games

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Anyone who says FNV isn't shit is just a fortnite kid from FNV's era. Probably their first video game. Probably haven't played Fallout 1 and 2 even.

You had me for a minute. And then you went full retard.

 

[Egosphere]

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.

How does it evolve the genre, though? It's a well written game that replaces a lot of game mechanics with (optional) text that is either fed to, or withheld from, the player based partially on the whims of a stochastic process.

 

[Trashos]

Bester , you are fucking kidding me. The whole Dead Money, the vid you posted included, is an aesthetic masterpiece (with very few specific flaws, but anyway).

The music and the voice acting are great (although for some reason the music is very low in that clip). It is possible, I am assuming, that you are just not in the mood for it. Dead Money aggressively sets a very specific mood. You get to this slide *eventually*, it is a whole journey (literally and emotionally) to get there.

You need a better example for your argument.

 

[frajaq]

Didn’t take a screenie. Told him to DANCE, you yellow monkey fucker. Then I talked to a goddess.

is talking to a goddess a Shiver passive check?

 

[luj1]

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre.

It's the original core systems and art direction. Bold setting. Not (just) the writing.

 

[Trashos]

it is one of the top three best-written games ever.

What are the other two? PST, I assume, and...?

 

[aeroaeko]

Don't spoil anything for me but is it possible to miss key story details? I'm at the end of the first night and Kim is telling me that we missed some details. Does this happen no matter what??

 

[Shadenuat]

You can miss case details. what qualifies for key story details is debatable. you don't miss best stuff generally.

Spoiler

don't forget to rest on island.

 

[GloomFrost]

I ve been thin2ing that i can only give my final verdict to DE after I finish it for the second time with a different build. If i really get to see new staff, content, different quest endings, dialogues then it is still a GOTY otherwise I m going to waste my spare time on the Outer Worlds!! I mean it, dont make me do it DE!

 

[Saduj]

Don't spoil anything for me but is it possible to miss key story details? I'm at the end of the first night and Kim is telling me that we missed some details. Does this happen no matter what??

I don’t know if it always happens but it happened with me too. I’m towards the end of Day 2 and I’ve discovered my biggest miss already. So I wouldn’t stress about it. In general I felt pretty lousy about Day 1 but things really started moving along on Day 2.

 

[Luckmann]

it is one of the top three best-written games ever.

What are the other two? PST, I assume, and...?

Desu Sex?

Don't spoil anything for me but is it possible to miss key story details? I'm at the end of the first night and Kim is telling me that we missed some details. Does this happen no matter what??

I can't imagine that you can get all details on the first day, except perhaps concerning the corpse specifically. You can certainly miss "key" "story details", but to the best of my knowledge it is not possible to miss anything major by advancing "prematurely", so to say.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre.

It's the original core systems and art direction. Bold setting. Not (just) the writing.

I agree, and also I don't mean to say that the writing is everything that makes it great. The graphics are also a big part of it, at least for me. But the same character system, which in itself isn't something we haven't seen before, would not have made such an impression if it weren't for the writing.

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.

Is the conclusion that only the "why the hell not" patronage of super-rich individuals can create good video games

They are the ones who should answer that, but I think it's not really possible to end up with something innovative without undertaking a big monetary risk. Whether this innovative thing will be good, depends more on the team.

 

[Luckmann]

Just take a minute and appreciate the fact that some no-name Estonian dude got some oligarch's ear and financing. And then made a game that the entirety of Cucklifornia wasn't able to do in 20 years.

All your false gods Sawyers, Avellones, Zietses, Fargos, all they can do is sniff Robert Kurvitz's balls and ass.

The imagery, the texts, the voice actors quality, the game design, everything is a hundred times better than your mundane fnvs and poes.

Compare this:
MEDIA=youtube]eWu-32hR4GY[/MEDIA

To this:
MEDIA=youtube]id=yAiaY1YC3F4;t=25[/MEDIA

The first one is inane, boring music and picture, bad voice actor reading boringly into the mic. They change the voice actors so you wouldn't fall asleep. It's all meaningless and trite.

The second one grips you immediately, you wanna hear what he's got to say. Instant interest.

That's how do you it. Anyone who says FNV isn't shit is just a fortnite kid from FNV's era. Probably their first video game. Probably haven't played Fallout 1 and 2 even.

I've never wanted to both brofist and retardo a post at the same time before.

You forced me to meh you. You did this.

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.

Too bad it was the wrong genre.

​

 

[Tigranes]

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre.

It's the original core systems and art direction. Bold setting. Not (just) the writing.

I agree, and also I don't mean to say that the writing is everything that makes it great. The graphics are also a big part of it, at least for me. But the same character system, which in itself isn't something we haven't seen before, would not have made such an impression if it weren't for the writing.

I think the whole conceit of stats talking to you & the Thought Cabinet would be a largely pointless gimmick if it weren't (1) written superbly, and (2) a large part of development resources dedicated to making sure they are fully integrated into every situation, quest, dialogue, throughout.

It's kind of like turning skill checks into the fundamental basis of every other system. The underlying idea isn't new at all, but making it the basis of everything else is fairly distinct.

I do wonder if other games would be able to follow in this regard, though. You have to build your entire game this way.

 

[AwesomeButton]

What I mean is, the story feels like, pretty much as Kurvitz describes it in interviews, the genre was frozen for decades with only graphics improving while writing and systems either remained an approximation of tabletop cute in its deficiencies, or just ran more and more naked with regards to RPG mechanics.

The public and the critics were convinced that nothing better can come around in RPGs and the "Skyrim open world" succeeded by "Witcher 3 open world" is the RPG in its high form.

In the isometric world - dwarves romancing lizards and conversing with puppies is considered "as good as an RPG gets". The pinnacle of PnP-like roleplaying.

Then DE comes out and demonstrates a completely different direction for the evolution of RPGs. Who knew the sun will keep rising even if we don't give it sacrifices? Where is the pinnacle of PnP-like roleplaying now?

 

[AwesomeButton]

I think the whole conceit of stats talking to you & the Thought Cabinet would be a largely pointless gimmick if it weren't (1) written superbly, and (2) a large part of development resources dedicated to making sure they are fully integrated into every situation, quest, dialogue, throughout.

We already saw that (it being a pointless gimmick) - the much touted NPC interjections and relationship system in Deadfire! And in the end, everyone was: "so what?"

 

[Alpan]

In my Codex preview, I said how well this is done will determine where the game sits on the scale between 'interesting, stylish game' and 'truly revolutionary' (as ZA/UM liked to say). So far, I think I am getting what I expected to get: a game that is truly unique, and also the game that TTON should have been instead of the bloated mess that we got - but whether it 'evolves the RPG genre' is harder to say. Will other games follow in its footsteps?

The skill system is the (to humor ZA/UM) "truly revolutionary" aspect of Disco Elysium, though I regard it more evolution than revolution. This is not just in the way the skills constantly interject but also in the way the skills are very finely tailored for the character, setting, and plot. Stuff like Esprit de Corps could only exist in a cop show, and it's absolutely brilliant (it is my favorite skill) despite having nearly no effect on the game. Similarly, Shivers only really makes sense in an urban setting. Visual Calculus only because the character is a detective, Electrochemistry only because the detective is already a drunkard wreck, etc. Overall DE makes a very strong argument for other games to pay close attention to skill design. No other game has achieved such a marriage between a skill system and the game's central themes, and it is probably the single most important lesson other games could learn from it.

 

[Shadenuat]

Then DE comes out and demonstrates a completely different direction for the evolution of RPGs

wot direction?
you guys just haven't seen good writing for so long that you take it for evolution in the genre.

Stuff like Esprit de Corps could only exist in a cop show

 

[AwesomeButton]

In my Codex preview, I said how well this is done will determine where the game sits on the scale between 'interesting, stylish game' and 'truly revolutionary' (as ZA/UM liked to say). So far, I think I am getting what I expected to get: a game that is truly unique, and also the game that TTON should have been instead of the bloated mess that we got - but whether it 'evolves the RPG genre' is harder to say. Will other games follow in its footsteps?

Of course, depends on your definition of "evolve". For me, the new branch exists even if it has only one representative. They have proven it's possible to pull of an RPG with this amount of reactivity.

 

[AwesomeButton]

wot direction?
you guys just haven't seen good writing for so long that you take it for evolution in the genre.

I've seen great writing fairly recently - in Witcher 3, in Red Dead Redemption 2, in Age of Decadence.

The writing in DE is an integral part of the systems and the quality of the writing determines the quality of the game as a whole, in a way in which it hasn't determined it for any RPG since. This is what is really new here.

Good writing and crazy attention to detail is especially important when you are writing a crime mystery. I'm too lazy right now to dig up the interview quote on that, because Kurvitz was well aware of that.

This is not just in the way the skills constantly interject but also in the way the skills are very finely tailored for the character, setting, and plot.

They not only interject, but often give unique dialogue lines which result in different outcomes, i.e. more than token reactivity. No one has had the balls to put so much reactivity in their dialogue, they've always just raised their hands and said, ah, it costs too much.

Personally, I think it's not up to money but up to talent, but that's another story.