Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[BosanskiSeljak]

The only real criticism I have about this game is that the

end game spoiler

murder mystery was a complete red herring. To not have the actual murderer be known until the final 20 minutes of the game is beyond retarded. I don't care if it has any deeper meaning or any of that -- dont advertise it as a murder mystery game if it's not solvable. The rest of it was really charming and the writing was great but the fucking murder mystery pissed me off to ever rate this more than a 7.5 because I was trying to find motivations and evidence where there wasnt any. Fuck you, dumbasses, for baiting me into thinking about the game instead of just watching it like a movie

Disco Elysium presents numerous clues pointing to the identity of the murderer; although he isn't encountered before the climactic confrontation, you should already be aware of much about him:

I'm not saying that it wasn't well foreshadowed, it was, it's just not how murder mysteries usually work . The murderer fits with the plot and theme quite well, but I think they could have made it less focused on harry being a detective trying to bring someone to justice in such a shithole, and more him being sent there to stop any future murders and restoring order. That would have gone a long way for me not trying to put the puzzle pieces together. Eventually I did just stop thinking about it because the clues never pointed to anyone we knew, I picked up on that. It's just early on I even took some brief notes because I was expecting having to do a scene where at the end you select someone for the crime. The game felt very reliant on choices up until the end which was pretty railroaded. Being able to frame some person whose ideology you dont like would have been pretty funny. But hey, endings are hard and I cant really blame them for not wanting to write multiple when 90% of people just pick the good boy option in every game.

You're looking at it from an autist point of view. This was never a murder mystery, the first 5 minutes is an indicator. I've said it many times and I'll say it again. This is a personal journey through addiction, love and heartbreak. Everything else, the murder mystery, policework, politics, is all a backdrop to the themes of the adventure.

 

[TheDarkUrge]

The only real criticism I have about this game is that the

end game spoiler

murder mystery was a complete red herring. To not have the actual murderer be known until the final 20 minutes of the game is beyond retarded. I don't care if it has any deeper meaning or any of that -- dont advertise it as a murder mystery game if it's not solvable. The rest of it was really charming and the writing was great but the fucking murder mystery pissed me off to ever rate this more than a 7.5 because I was trying to find motivations and evidence where there wasnt any. Fuck you, dumbasses, for baiting me into thinking about the game instead of just watching it like a movie

Disco Elysium presents numerous clues pointing to the identity of the murderer; although he isn't encountered before the climactic confrontation, you should already be aware of much about him:

I'm not saying that it wasn't well foreshadowed, it was, it's just not how murder mysteries usually work . The murderer fits with the plot and theme quite well, but I think they could have made it less focused on harry being a detective trying to bring someone to justice in such a shithole, and more him being sent there to stop any future murders and restoring order. That would have gone a long way for me not trying to put the puzzle pieces together. Eventually I did just stop thinking about it because the clues never pointed to anyone we knew, I picked up on that. It's just early on I even took some brief notes because I was expecting having to do a scene where at the end you select someone for the crime. The game felt very reliant on choices up until the end which was pretty railroaded. Being able to frame some person whose ideology you dont like would have been pretty funny. But hey, endings are hard and I cant really blame them for not wanting to write multiple when 90% of people just pick the good boy option in every game.

You're looking at it from an autist point of you. This was never a murder mystery, the first 5 minutes is an indicator. I've said it many times and I'll say it again. This is a personal journey through addiction, love and heartbreak. Everything else, the murder mystery, policework, politics, is all a backdrop to the themes of the adventure.

Lawrence block's novels have a similar humorous tone with philosophy thrown in and they still manage to actually make the mystery solvable, and the protagonist is a burglar not even an official detective. I'm not buying that excuse.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Lawrence block's novels have a similar humorous tone with philosophy thrown in and they still manage to actually make the mystery solvable, and the protagonist is a burglar not even an official detective. I'm not buying that excuse.

You still fail to understand what I said. I said the humorous parts are still a backdrop, or did you fail to see that? Even then, depending on your build, you can rule out everything you encounter within the first few hours of the game. Again, let go of your autism, go experience life, and come back to me.

 

[TheDarkUrge]

Lawrence block's novels have a similar humorous tone with philosophy thrown in and they still manage to actually make the mystery solvable, and the protagonist is a burglar not even an official detective. I'm not buying that excuse.

You still fail to understand what I said. I said the humorous parts are still a backdrop, or did you fail to see that? Even then, depending on your build, you can rule out everything you encounter within the first few hours of the game. Again, let go of your autism, go experience life, and come back to me.

I'm addicted to the autism of solving mysteries so I actually did empathise with Harry's withdrawal. Btw I still liked the ending especially with the

end

monster at the end. I really liked that theme of not giving up on the sense of wonder when it actually ended up being real after crushing your hopes of finding it earlier.

 

[Sweeper]

This is a personal journey through addiction, love and heartbreak.

Sounds gay.

 

[KVVRR]

Yeah you should've been able to solve the mystery by yourself one way or another, the game not allowing you to go to the island until the very very end just feels kinda cheap in retrospective. I've seen several people get stuck because they WANT to go to the potential sniper shots but it simply isn't an option.
I can forgive it because the ending itself is one of the best parts of the game, it's understandable they didn't want to dillute how hard it hits with the player spoiling himself by going there early before the tribunal or any potential sidequests related to the miracle. But still, surely there was a better way to pull that off? Imagine if the ending was like when you encounter Ruby instead quality wise. Player gets trapped, very little options besides questions that amount to little else besides "yeah she didn't do it", somewhat one note dialogue because of the setup. Poor implementation of the damage system into the dialogue due to it just giving you a gamer over with the only option being hearing it ALL again. And then a moral choice for a character you genuinely just don't really care about? It would've soured the experience in so many ways it's not even funny.

 

[Old Hans]

It's kind of hilarious you can totally ignore the hanging body and still finish the game.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

You fucking kidding me? There's a TV show of DE? A skeleton too with burning eyes too?

 

[AfterVirtue]

Yeah you should've been able to solve the mystery by yourself one way or another, the game not allowing you to go to the island until the very very end just feels kinda cheap in retrospective. I've seen several people get stuck because they WANT to go to the potential sniper shots but it simply isn't an option.

That is not necessary. There are currents in noir, oftentimes with political issues (not woke neither in themes nor in style, so no preachy, but with a strongpolitical weltashauung), in which the solution to "the mystery" isn't the point; it may be solvable, but the point is the socio-economic and human processes of which the "mystery" is just a result, or a small part. The spanish author Manuel Vázquez Montalbán, of communist provenience and his character Pepe Carvalho, for example. Mind this is completely different from "post-modern" and "post-Eco" sawyerism, the mystery isn't the point not because there is no objective truth and yadda yadda but because the truth is impotent when the situation is corrupted at the roots.

 

[ind33d]

The only real criticism I have about this game is that the

end game spoiler

murder mystery was a complete red herring. To not have the actual murderer be known until the final 20 minutes of the game is beyond retarded. I don't care if it has any deeper meaning or any of that -- dont advertise it as a murder mystery game if it's not solvable. The rest of it was really charming and the writing was great but the fucking murder mystery pissed me off to ever rate this more than a 7.5 because I was trying to find motivations and evidence where there wasnt any. Fuck you, dumbasses, for baiting me into thinking about the game instead of just watching it like a movie

yeah it's one of the worst endings of anything in history and really sours the entire game. the railroading in the last 33% of the game feels as though they frontloaded all the good content like Dark Souls 1 and assumed illiterate game journalists would never get that far

 

[Cohesion]

Disco Elysium is a great game. Quest for Glory is a great game. Not full fledged RPGs, but not CYOA either. One of the best adventure games (with mild RPG elements) they are. Totally storyfag games of course. It's not underrail.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Aren't there quite a few games in history where the front/first half are more is going relatively well but then the due date and overlord publishers push the developers into a crunch so the end becomes bland and rushed to fuck and damned be the original vision?

 

[Cohesion]

Aren't there quite a few games in history where the front/first half are more is going relatively well but then the due date and overlord publishers push the developers into a crunch so the end becomes bland and rushed to fuck and damned be the original vision?

Yes. Bg3, dos, pillars, pathfinders, etc. Not this game though. DE isn't frontloaded.

 

[KVVRR]

Yeah you should've been able to solve the mystery by yourself one way or another, the game not allowing you to go to the island until the very very end just feels kinda cheap in retrospective. I've seen several people get stuck because they WANT to go to the potential sniper shots but it simply isn't an option.

That is not necessary. There are currents in noir, oftentimes with political issues (not woke neither in themes nor in style, so no preachy, but with a strongpolitical weltashauung), in which the solution to "the mystery" isn't the point; it may be solvable, but the point is the socio-economic and human processes of which the "mystery" is just a result, or a small part. The spanish author Manuel Vázquez Montalbán, of communist provenience and his character Pepe Carvalho, for example. Mind this is completely different from "post-modern" and "post-Eco" sawyerism, the mystery isn't the point not because there is no objective truth and yadda yadda but because the truth is impotent when the situation is corrupted at the roots.

I'm not arguing for the player being able to solve the case from a narrative point of view, I'm arguing from a player agency point of view. The game tells you there are 3 sniper spots you should take a look at but bars you from going to the correct one up until the endgame, which doesn't really happen with any other thing in the game besides the second part of the map being locked, which is justified in the narrative. There's very little reason why the player can't ask for the boat to go the the island right away, it just isn't an option in the game. It creates a disconnect between your objective and what you can do that wasn't really there before even if you were trying to solve the murder.
It's the RPG part of the game failing in favour of a better narrative. Like I said, the ending hits so I don't mind, but it could've easily been a disaster and it is a point against the game for a lot of people rightfully so.

 

[Itoh]

You can't travel to the island because of the implicit understanding that your character is working as a detective on a murder case, and with his limited time and resources he has to explore the likeliest-seeming options first. As I recall, the island shot was estimated to be by far the most difficult, with the other two being much easier(and besides, you spent a decent chunk of the midgame hunting down potential suspects. Again, a much better use of your time than fucking off to some island). The narrative only allows you to sail to the island when it makes sense to - ie, when you've exhausted other, more plausible-sounding possibilities and have only the fainter lead remaining.

 

[KVVRR]

You can't travel to the island because of the implicit understanding that your character is working as a detective on a murder case, and with his limited time and resources he has to explore the likeliest-seeming options first. As I recall, the island shot was estimated to be by far the most difficult, with the other two being much easier(and besides, you spent a decent chunk of the midgame hunting down potential suspects. Again, a much better use of your time than fucking off to some island). The narrative only allows you to sail to the island when it makes sense to - ie, when you've exhausted other, more plausible-sounding possibilities and have only the fainter lead remaining.

That doesn't really apply to DE though. You can blow entire days doing nothing but reading books or talking politics with the locals. You can complete the game without even looking at the corpse in the first place even, and all of this is supported and even accounted for (for the most part, salve for very extreme cases) by the narrative.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Another autist doesn't realize the case/police work is just a backdrop to the true themes of the game: The thread.

 

[Infinitron]

I think it's true that Disco's endgame plot gate wasn't executed well. I wonder how it could have been improved.

Perhaps the weather - a storm that reaches its peak on the day of the tribunal? Or if that's too extravagant, maybe the tides making it too dangerous to approach the island.

 

[Hace El Oso]

I think it's true that Disco's endgame plot gate wasn't executed well. I wonder how it could have been improved.

Perhaps the weather - a storm that reaches its peak on the day of the tribunal? Or if that's too extravagant, maybe the tides making it too dangerous to approach the island.

I don’t think that would address the core issue that some people have with the area being gated off and the mystery unsolvable until the end of the game.

If you could have gotten to the area, investigated and found clues, but with Lilianovich and his rifle nowhere to be seen (except for your sensation that someone is there, which is already in the game), that would probably be an improvement.

 

[Hydro]

I think it's true that Disco's endgame plot gate wasn't executed well. I wonder how it could have been improved.

Perhaps the weather - a storm that reaches its peak on the day of the tribunal? Or if that's too extravagant, maybe the tides making it too dangerous to approach the island.

wow, bioware should hire you

 

[Hydro]

I think it's true that Disco's endgame plot gate wasn't executed well. I wonder how it could have been improved.

Perhaps the weather - a storm that reaches its peak on the day of the tribunal? Or if that's too extravagant, maybe the tides making it too dangerous to approach the island.

I don’t think that would address the core issue that some people have with the area being gated off and the mystery unsolvable until the end of the game.

If you could have gotten to the area, investigated and found clues, but with Lilianovich and his rifle nowhere to be seen (except for your sensation that someone is there, which is already in the game), that would probably be an improvement.

Or they should have just allowed spergs to reach the island in no time finishing the game immediately sparing us from these dumb threads

 

[Utgard-Loki]

the game is actually just about trying to make your homosex kipt partner die from a brain aneurysm from sheer anger at your antics.
"i did it, kim! i teleported!"

 

[KVVRR]

I think it's true that Disco's endgame plot gate wasn't executed well. I wonder how it could have been improved.

Perhaps the weather - a storm that reaches its peak on the day of the tribunal? Or if that's too extravagant, maybe the tides making it too dangerous to approach the island.

That'd be fun. The only problem I see with doing that is that you'd be messing up the weather system the game already had, which actually affects the dialogue and heavily affects shivers checks which so many people love.

 

[Daemongar]

I was annoyed with the ending - at first. Maybe a better configuration would be to make it more of a difficulty check: if you still haven't solved the murder by the time the island opens up, obvious clues are found there that point you to the murderer on the mainland. Then, you go back to the mainland and can accuse anyone you damn well please based on what you discovered during the story.

Ultimately the ending wasn't about solving the murder. It was also the other half of the story - who is that gal Harry is mourning over? That's tied up on the same island. That could have been handled better - maybe tie that one up a day earlier, and have it more based on thought closet learning. Just too much going on in the end, it kind of throws off the tempo of the endgame.

 

[Dopparn]

Just finished this game.

I liked it, but it felt way too railroaded. So many characters, so many skill checks, so many quests, and so much fucking text, but in the end they never amounted to anything substantial.

You have a lot of choices but the consequences are non-existent. They didn't even bother adding end slides or something to feel what your actions actually did on Martinaise.

Also, in so many occasions I stumbled on a cool lead on the case I thought I could progress on my own, get frustrated over not finding the solution, check the wiki for the answer being "just progress the main quest and it will resolve itself". And that's basically the game, it solves itself.