Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[†††]

What would you say the best skills are? we can make a distinction; best from an utilitarian standpoint (Perception?) and simply amusement (I love Inland Empire), as well as key skills for the plot.

 

[Egosphere]

What I would like to see in patches, is some kind of hardcore mode. For example, open up the ruleset so I can spend points in character creation directly on skills, instead of tying the skill to attributes.

It would open up a possibility for AoD-style meta-gamey playthroughs, where you can fuck your build entirely and have to juice your skills to progress, carefully manage your character and THC bonuses, avoid silly builds with 1hhp/1morale and so on.

Make it a little bit more gamey, basically.

You won't be able to fuck your build entirely, though, because the checks are probability based. I don't think you can actually fuck up and not progress in the game. The tribunal rolls around and then the island will open up, right?

 

[Egosphere]

What would you say the best skills are? we can make a distinction; best from an utilitarian standpoint (Perception?) and simply amusement (I love Inland Empire), as well as key skills for the plot.

H/E is very rare, but when it comes up it's important. Interfacing came up a few times on day 1, when performing 2 autopsies. Reaction is .. don't take it. It just hurts.

 

[Luckmann]

I've started to make a list of "narrative snafus" or oddities that stand out to me, beyond the whole "I've never talked to a third-positionist in my entire life" that permeates most of the political writing, which really deserves its own discussion and list of what the fucks. It's more of a commentary on things I've encountered that could be better or that doesn't mesh with the rest of the game. Some are probably going to be more serious than others, and some are just 100% opinion.

I was going to them all up until I've finished the game, but in case anyone has other experiences that relate to it and gives a shit, I thought I might as well share it now. I'm posting it here because I'm trying to avoid spoilers and don't want to go to the spoiler-y thread.

Genuine Spoilers

• If you end up not talking with Evrart (The Union Boss) until late the 2nd day and then work with him on the third and get him talking about the case - in other words, you've managed to do a bunch of other things - it's entirely possible that you've already worked out a ton of stuff concerning the Hardie boys, the murder, the hanging, and the woman on the balcony (whose name escapes me), including the lawyer woman fucking off, and you putting yourself on the track of Ruby. However, when you talk to Evrart about the case, he'll still be doing the usual spin (based on, as far as I'm aware as of writing this, the facts of the case as he actually knows it or have had it relayed to him, I guess) about how the victim was a mercenary and how they totally hanged him, why it was justified, etc.

You don't get a chance to correct this, or to interrupt him. This stood out to me as the first (and so far only) time in the game where I felt reactivity was lacking. Throughout most of the game prior to this point (at least), there's a lot of cross-pollination and interjections and changes based on what you've done prior, but here, it seems that the assumption is that you've talked to Evrart before working things out at the hostel, which - considering the rest of the game prior - stands out as an odd assumption.

• Also related to Evrart, he asks you to open a door. Fair enough. You can choose to lie. I love that. However, this was the first time I felt like a very reasonable option was simply.. missing. Why on Earth can't you open the door, check out the flat/basement, and then lock it, and then lie to Evrart about having left it unlocked? It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, assuming you don't want to be Evrart's lapdog, but still want to see if you can figure out *why* he wanted me to unlock *that* door or *who* lives there.

• Talking to Measurehead in the middle of the night results in some really odd comments and references to the racist lorry-driver down the street. Because the racist lorry-driver isn't there. Yet you point at him, and the racist lorry-driver is referenced as yelling to someone that enters the Frittte... which is closed. As opposed to the previous two "issues", this one is a genuine error or oversight or maybe even a bug, in my opinion.

• I wrote "I love Cuno" on the wall. Cuno acknowledges that I wrote on the wall, but he doesn't acknowledge *what* I wrote on the wall. He didn't even call me a fag. Literally unplayable.[/QUOTE]

 

[Egosphere]

Also, regarding the art, I've found

Cuno:

Spoiler

Joyce

Spoiler

Evrart

Spoiler

 

[Nameless Codexian]

I've started to make a list of "narrative snafus" or oddities that stand out to me, beyond the whole "I've never talked to a third-positionist in my entire life" that permeates most of the political writing, which really deserves its own discussion and list of what the fucks. It's more of a commentary on things I've encountered that could be better or that doesn't mesh with the rest of the game. Some are probably going to be more serious than others, and some are just 100% opinion.

I was going to them all up until I've finished the game, but in case anyone has other experiences that relate to it and gives a shit, I thought I might as well share it now. I'm posting it here because I'm trying to avoid spoilers and don't want to go to the spoiler-y thread.

Genuine Spoilers

• If you end up not talking with Evrart (The Union Boss) until late the 2nd day and then work with him on the third and get him talking about the case - in other words, you've managed to do a bunch of other things - it's entirely possible that you've already worked out a ton of stuff concerning the Hardie boys, the murder, the hanging, and the woman on the balcony (whose name escapes me), including the lawyer woman fucking off, and you putting yourself on the track of Ruby. However, when you talk to Evrart about the case, he'll still be doing the usual spin (based on, as far as I'm aware as of writing this, the facts of the case as he actually knows it or have had it relayed to him, I guess) about how the victim was a mercenary and how they totally hanged him, why it was justified, etc.

You don't get a chance to correct this, or to interrupt him. This stood out to me as the first (and so far only) time in the game where I felt reactivity was lacking. Throughout most of the game prior to this point (at least), there's a lot of cross-pollination and interjections and changes based on what you've done prior, but here, it seems that the assumption is that you've talked to Evrart before working things out at the hostel, which - considering the rest of the game prior - stands out as an odd assumption.

• Also related to Evrart, he asks you to open a door. Fair enough. You can choose to lie. I love that. However, this was the first time I felt like a very reasonable option was simply.. missing. Why on Earth can't you open the door, check out the flat/basement, and then lock it, and then lie to Evrart about having left it unlocked? It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, assuming you don't want to be Evrart's lapdog, but still want to see if you can figure out *why* he wanted me to unlock *that* door or *who* lives there.

• Talking to Measurehead in the middle of the night results in some really odd comments and references to the racist lorry-driver down the street. Because the racist lorry-driver isn't there. Yet you point at him, and the racist lorry-driver is referenced as yelling to someone that enters the Frittte... which is closed. As opposed to the previous two "issues", this one is a genuine error or oversight or maybe even a bug, in my opinion.

• I wrote "I love Cuno" on the wall. Cuno acknowledges that I wrote on the wall, but he doesn't acknowledge *what* I wrote on the wall. He didn't even call me a fag. Literally unplayable.

[/QUOTE]

In your opinion, does this game really deserves to be called as the planescape torment of modern video gaming?

 

[Prime Junta]

In your opinion, does this game really deserves to be called as the planescape torment of modern video gaming?

Spoiler

careful with your words here

 

[mibbles]

<pic>

I love you.

 

[Van-d-all]

Genuine Spoilers

• Talking to Measurehead in the middle of the night results in some really odd comments and references to the racist lorry-driver down the street. Because the racist lorry-driver isn't there. Yet you point at him, and the racist lorry-driver is referenced as yelling to someone that enters the Frittte... which is closed. As opposed to the previous two "issues", this one is a genuine error or oversight or maybe even a bug, in my opinion.

Damn if you want to be nitpicky there's shitloads more.

Spoiler

• Kim doesn't even open his doors when he goes to sleep.
  
  
• Kim teleports to be crouching near the body when you perform an autopsy
  
  
• When going through the intercom recording without Kim, you get parts of his dialogue anyways.
  
  
• You can talk to Joyce about the drug trafficking twice, with and without Kim as if the first dialogue never happened, and even get the XP.
  
  

Just from top off my head. And there are generally several dialogues that mention place or time specific details, that make little sense in some circumstances in which you might trigger them.

 

[Lithium Flower]

Some disco-ass mother uploaded a few of the tracks. None of the climactic greats, sadly, but I rather enjoy this one:

 

[Shadenuat]

Thing is, I managed to succeed at all the visual calculus checks

It is extremely cool skill with its visual effects but surprisingly, it doesn't affect game progression that much and is fairly optional.
Logic is a better skill I think.

Spoiler

When you begin the game you use visual calculus for your car quest, then for the footprints that help you to break hardies.
When inspecting the body it helps to reduce the shooting requirements. Also you can guess the guy Age.
Then you use visual calculus at the end.
I think visual calculus is far more useful than Logic in main quest.

you find car and learn what happened regardless of skill check. and that's how many things go for skills in this game.
it almost feels like they just overlap and serve similar purpose often.

 

[Shadenuat]

In your opinion, does this game really deserves to be called as the planescape torment of modern video gaming?

No, it's simply too basic. Lacks replayability too.
But writing and setting is good. No arguing there.

What would you say the best skills are?

blue + purple + shivers + perception.

Pickpocket got Traps treatment from AoD lol.
some yellow skills are alright, but you know, clothes + Speed if you really want this.

 

[vota DC]

What would you say the best skills are? we can make a distinction; best from an utilitarian standpoint (Perception?) and simply amusement (I love Inland Empire), as well as key skills for the plot.

INTELLECT:
Visual Calculus and Logic are the most useful. Visual Calculus also is quite amusing.
Rhetoric is quite useful and very funny.
Conceptualization is often used in quests, it isn't so funny.
Encyclopedia isn't that useful for your case but has some use for you character since it unlocks some great thoughts, it is very amusing for the case.
Drama seems the least useful of the group often you use empathy to detect lies....but is the most funny in thought dialogue amount your blue skills.

PSYCHE:
Volition isn't just morale points that you can heal during dialogue, it gives you very important check and it is quite funny too.
The other are all both funny and useful maybe suggestion and esprit de corps are a little less useful than authorithy, empathy and inland empire but still they are great to have....psyche is very balanced.

PHYSIQUE:
Endurance gives you hitpoints but you can heal during dialogue so 1 or 10 isn't different. You will use it on day 1.
Pain Threshold unlocks a great place, you can also use it to avoid damage and spare healing items.
Physical Instrument is very funny to use but often the alternate way is the better one. With the trash bin you can just ask keys with zero skill check!
Electrochemistry is a good skill with funny dialogue and unlock many mini-quests. While it is good you get many content even without investing on it since most of check are very low and you get early game +2 from items.
Shivers is bad early game for the main case but it is always useful for sidequest and become useful for main case later in game, interaction is amusing too.
Half Light unlocks great dialogue but right now I haven't find any use

MOTOTICS:
Perception is the most useful by far. It helps finding objects both for becoming rich but also secret passages and clues for your case.
Interface isn't funny itself but you unlock doors and phone that gives you good content.
Hand eye is used at the very beginning and at the very end, the few interactions are awesome of course.
Savoir Faire and composure are quite funny for being yellow but you can freely skip them. High composure unlocks a great gameover.
Reaction speed is both useless and boring.

 

[Shadenuat]

Honestly if I could dump Encyclopedia I'd do it just because it spams my dialogue with sawyerisms.

 

[frajaq]

Half Light is one of my favorites by how fucking psychopathic and insane it can be

 

[Nameless Codexian]

In your opinion, does this game really deserves to be called as the planescape torment of modern video gaming?

Spoiler

careful with your words here

I want to hear his opinion on the matter.

Whether I possess the same or contrary opinion matters not.

 

[Lithium Flower]

My issue with this question and all of its past and future incarnations is that it rests on the idea that art can be evaluated in some sort of objective way that doesn't rely on an individual's subjective heuristic. Most people buy into this idea, either explicitly or by implication, and the result is that much of this forum engages in pedantic hair-splitting over whether this game evokes the Platonic ideal of "RPG" versus the Platonic ideal of "toaster oven," or whether or not in rates 7 or 8 or even 9 on some abstract scale, etc

I think there are some people who can believe in the objective value of things and remain consistent. For example, a theist already buys into metaphysical presuppositions such as the existence of moral forces, and if you believe that people and actions can have moral value its not really a stretch to believe that art can have aesthetic value. However, the mental gymnastics required for a secular materialist to defend the idea that somewhere in the universe there is this magical property of "good art," or maybe a spiritual 10-point scale by which all hentai should be measured, are simply obscene in their complexity.

Does this mean you should stop pretending like your opinion is any more valid than anyone else, or stop derailing every single fucking thread into "my god game is better than your god game" or "this isn't an RPG - its an action-adventure game with roleplaying elements"? No, shitposting can fun; if it makes you happy, go ahead and knock yourself out, or shove metal rods into your urethra, or what have you. But personally, when I read this forum, sometimes I feel like the only agnostic in a convent of hermeticists who spend half of their day discussing gnostic knowledge and the principles of alchemy and ranking the entities within the metadaemonic pantheon, and I begin to wonder.

 

[Prime Junta]

I want to hear his opinion on the matter.

Whether I possess the same or contrary opinion matters not.

You didn't ask for my take but I'll give it anyway -- another variant of it in any case.

PS:T and DE made me feel the same way. I haven't felt that way with any other games.

 

[Egosphere]

In your opinion, does this game really deserves to be called as the planescape torment of modern video gaming?

Reposting the last paragraph from my rant (no spoilers):

Spoiler

I'd like to quickly mention my own opinion of the comparisons with PST. Is Disco as good as Torment? Is it better? I would say no, not at all. Don't get me wrong, it has some incredible writing and a fantastic cast; its dialogue system is far more advanced and ambitious than PST and it does have some unforgettable moments. Many individual facets are much stronger, but comparing them as two wholes I think PST comes out on top. PST's quality follows a wave function: it's incredible for the first 4 or so hours, but then starts to sink when you find Pharod. Then you find the tomb and it's awesome again, but then it goes a bit stale in the back alleys. But then you enter Lower Ward and experience all the joys that place brings. Then you go to Curst and it's a bit shit. Then comes Fortress of Regrets and it ends on an epic high. So even when you're in a trough, you feel the incline up ahead. For me, DE hit its high at the end of day 1, flatlines on day 2, starts to sink on day 3 and then crashes at the very end. It also doesn't help that most of the places mentioned in DE are just that, places that get mentioned, not actually visited. There's a lot of lore in PST, but there are also a lot of locations to back it up. You hear something and you pay attention, because what if you'll wind up there at some point? Never got enough of that in DE.

 

[Luckmann]

In your opinion, does this game really deserves to be called as the planescape torment of modern video gaming?

Oh dear god no.

 

[Shadenuat]

its dialogue system is far more advanced and ambitious than PST

I am not sure about this.
At minimum your alignment in PST unlocked NPCs and factions I believe. And factions were pretty big chunks of content.

And I would say factions in PST beat the shit out of DE politics no problemo, by the way.

 

[Luckmann]

its dialogue system is far more advanced and ambitious than PST

I am not sure about this.
At minimum your alignment in PST unlocked NPCs and factions I believe. And factions were pretty big chunks of content.

And I would say factions in PST beat the shit out of DE politics no problemo, by the way.

Yeah, it's not even a contest. The would-be "politics" of PS:T is also on a much higher level than Disco Elysium, with the added benefit of being divorced from reality (whereas in Disco Elysium, it tries not to be but ironically end up being divorced anyway - except in the opposite of a good way).

Edit: Sure, PJ, just bury your head in the sand. If anyone here is butthurt, it's you.

 

[Nahel]

Great game but below Planescape Torment for sure. Some linear choices. If we could avoid the mandatory fight with dialogue and had some extra alternatives solutions. Ending too abrupt, which is a pity. Still worth a purchase and made me have some feels.

Spoiler

Harry fucking ex. That last conversation. Every man who had his heart broken will feel it

 

[Egosphere]

its dialogue system is far more advanced and ambitious than PST

I am not sure about this.
At minimum your alignment in PST unlocked NPCs and factions I believe. And factions were pretty big chunks of content.

And I would say factions in PST beat the shit out of DE politics no problemo, by the way.

What I mean is, there are a lot more skills that can sway the conversation this or that way in DE over PST. PST really has the one correct approach to dialogue, just by maxing out intelligence, wisdom & that other skill I've forgotten, whilst in DE you can still get reactions depending on all the eccentricities you've ticked off in chargen.

 

[JarlFrank]

I want to hear his opinion on the matter.

Whether I possess the same or contrary opinion matters not.

You didn't ask for my take but I'll give it anyway -- another variant of it in any case.

PS:T and DE made me feel the same way. I haven't felt that way with any other games.

Same for me. It's been a long time since I actually felt anything when playing a game, and that last (and only) time was with PST.

It starts out as a funny FASCIST HOBOCOP DISCO SUPERSTAR romp but the more you progress in the game, the more melancholic it becomes, and the ending was actually pretty good too, even though I was initially ambivalent about it.

And that dream with the apricot-scented one... damn.

What the game definitely shows is that whoever wrote the main character knows what it's like to:
- be a man who's drowning his sorrows in booze but doesn't acknowledge that this is the reason he drinks
- be a man who lost his love long ago but can't move on from it no matter how much time has passed
- have hit rock bottom and wake up in an unfamiliar place with a splitting headache

No other game I ever played portrayed these things so convincingly.