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My issue with this question and all of its past and future incarnations is that it rests on the idea that art can be evaluated in some sort of objective way that doesn't rely on an individual's subjective heuristic. Most people buy into this idea, either explicitly or by implication, and the result is that much of this forum engages in pedantic hair-splitting over whether this game evokes the Platonic ideal of "RPG" versus the Platonic ideal of "toaster oven," or whether or not in rates 7 or 8 or even 9 on some abstract scale, etc
I think there are some people who can believe in the objective value of things and remain consistent. For example, a theist already buys into metaphysical presuppositions such as the existence of moral forces, and if you believe that people and actions can have moral value its not really a stretch to believe that art can have aesthetic value. However, the mental gymnastics required for a secular materialist to defend the idea that somewhere in the universe there is this magical property of "good art," or maybe a spiritual 10-point scale by which all hentai should be measured, are simply obscene in their complexity.
Does this mean you should stop pretending like your opinion is any more valid than anyone else, or stop derailing every single fucking thread into "my god game is better than your god game" or "this isn't an RPG - its an action-adventure game with roleplaying elements"? No, shitposting can fun; if it makes you happy, go ahead and knock yourself out, or shove metal rods into your urethra, or what have you. But personally, when I read this forum, sometimes I feel like the only agnostic in a convent of hermeticists who spend half of their day discussing gnostic knowledge and the principles of alchemy and ranking the entities within the metadaemonic pantheon, and I begin to wonder.
If this is how you truly feel about the 'question' which my posts usually revolve around, then put me on ignore and/or rate my posts as shit, retard, etc... and if you think I also affect others in the same manner then I also would advise them to do the same.
I won't begrudge you for it. Do not let my actions besmear with dirt whatever memories and experiences you have with the game.
What I mean is, there are a lot more skills that can sway the conversation this or that way in DE over PST. PST really has the one correct approach to dialogue, just by maxing out intelligence, wisdom & that other skill I've forgotten, whilst in DE you can still get reactions depending on all the eccentricities you've ticked off in chargen.
Reposting the last paragraph from my rant (no spoilers):
I'd like to quickly mention my own opinion of the comparisons with PST. Is Disco as good as Torment? Is it better? I would say no, not at all. Don't get me wrong, it has some incredible writing and a fantastic cast; its dialogue system is far more advanced and ambitious than PST and it does have some unforgettable moments. Many individual facets are much stronger, but comparing them as two wholes I think PST comes out on top. PST's quality follows a wave function: it's incredible for the first 4 or so hours, but then starts to sink when you find Pharod. Then you find the tomb and it's awesome again, but then it goes a bit stale in the back alleys. But then you enter Lower Ward and experience all the joys that place brings. Then you go to Curst and it's a bit shit. Then comes Fortress of Regrets and it ends on an epic high. So even when you're in a trough, you feel the incline up ahead. For me, DE hit its high at the end of day 1, flatlines on day 2, starts to sink on day 3 and then crashes at the very end. It also doesn't help that most of the places mentioned in DE are just that, places that get mentioned, not actually visited. There's a lot of lore in PST, but there are also a lot of locations to back it up. You hear something and you pay attention, because what if you'll wind up there at some point? Never got enough of that in DE.
I am surprised people have this opinion that game starts funny but then--
For me moment I exited starting area and talked with girl trying to sell books I felt that this one gets it: it's like Numanuma where most characters are written like Rhin, not like fountains of purple fish.
If this is how you truly feel about the 'question' which my posts usually revolve around, then put me on ignore and/or rate my posts as shit, retard, etc... and if you think I also affect others in the same manner then I also would advise them to do the same.
I won't begrudge you for it. Do not let my actions besmear with dirt whatever memories and experiences you have with the game.
What? This has nothing to do with DE, this is a broad epistemological (I think) disagreement I have with the vast majority of people involved in this type of discourse. I've made peace with it long ago, otherwise I wouldn't even bother to read this forum.
To your credit, your question was phrased more fairly than most. My post was directed not at you specifically but at the Masses. I am akin to brave Sisyphus, happily pushing a boulder up a hill, or to a Nietzschean Ubermensch, bravely shouting into the abyss.
Same for me. It's been a long time since I actually felt anything when playing a game, and that last (and only) time was with PST.
It starts out as a funny FASCIST HOBOCOP DISCO SUPERSTAR romp but the more you progress in the game, the more melancholic it becomes, and the ending was actually pretty good too, even though I was initially ambivalent about it.
And that dream with the apricot-scented one... damn.
What the game definitely shows is that whoever wrote the main character knows what it's like to:
- be a man who's drowning his sorrows in booze but doesn't acknowledge that this is the reason he drinks
- be a man who lost his love long ago but can't move on from it no matter how much time has passed
- have hit rock bottom and wake up in an unfamiliar place with a splitting headache
No other game I ever played portrayed these things so convincingly.
Every character is excellently written.
The skill system is fun, and different skills give you different vibes for your character.
The side quests are pretty good too, and you can screw them up by missing things or making wrong decisions.
The atmosphere - visuals, music, everything - really pulls you in.
The main mystery is actually pretty fun to uncover.
I like the structure of the game being split into days, and every action and dialogue choice advancing time (rather than time advancing automatically in real time).
Only the ending was a little disappointing, and I hoped for more occasions where your gun would come in handy.
Now that Disco Elysium is out – and people seem to be diggin’ it – let’s talk about all the drugs you can do in it. Let’s talk about Pyrholidon, The Lightning, Al Gul and the sumptuous Tabac herb. Think of this as a little designer-tutorial on how to get the best out of those bad boys. Or how to make due without them, because…
1. First, your detective doesn’t have to do drugs. A straight edge run is a great way to play the game. (One favoured by our writers, for example). It makes the game more challenging and adds some extra role playing tension – in the form of temptation. After all, there is no temptation without abstinence.
2. Drugs kill. If you do go down that route, know this: drugs give flat bonuses to your main Stats. But they also damage your Health and Morale. Which can lead to heart attacks and giving up. This means you should at least aim to heal any damage immediately after taking a hit. Hands shaking from the Lightning? Smooth it over with some magnesium. Smoking got you groggy? Nosaphed will clean those sinuses!
3. Number one trick – drugs also raise the learning caps of your Skills. In Disco Elysium, your initial Stats decide how many points you can put in the Skills under them. Because drugs (temporarily) raise your main Stat, they also raise your learning caps. When the effect wears off, you get to keep the point you put into your Skill. (Fun fact: this started out as a bug, but we kept it because testers liked it.)
4. Most drugs have sub-types, or “brands”. (Cigarettes, for example, can be Astra or Tioumoutiri.) These are cosmetic. Just like in real life, brands do nothing. They’re just random fetishism – speed is speed, nicotine is nicotine, wine doesn’t kill you any less if it’s expensive.
5. Drugs have charges. Electrochemistry gives you extra charges. The base amount of charges for all drugs is 3. If you have 4+ Electrochemistry at the time of first acquiring the drug, you get 4 charges instead; 7+ Electrochemistry gives you 5 charges.
6. You might wanna top up. One charge lasts 1 hour of in game time. Most big scenes take longer than that to complete. So if you blast your drug of choice before going in – in preparation, as you would a spell before combat – you’ll run out half way through the ordeal. Amend this by further blasting in the thick of it! Bring that brewskie, that ciggy, or that anti-radiation drug to the lion’s den by keeping it your held slot. Then keep an eye on the clock and take a preventive hit.
7. Containers with legal drugs (smokes and alcohol) are visible for all – while containers with illegal drugs (pyrholidon and speed) become visible only after first using the drug. There might be some surprises waiting in, say, Cindy’s coal room. Or the fish market. But only for the initiated. If you’re innocent you won’t know what to look for.
8. There is one drug for each of the four main Stats in the game. You can use this to “fix” a weakness in your character build. Low Intellect detectives might find themselves smoking a lot, while low Psyche detectives have more to gain from doing Pyrholidon. Low Physiqe detectives are prone to sucking on a bottle. Even a low Motorics detective is stupid enough to try that jump when they’re on the Lightning Rail.
Here is a summary on all the drugs in the game, where to find them and how they interact with your thoughts.
SMOKES
Bonus: +1 Intellect.
Damages: -1 Health (-1 Endurance)
Healed by: Nosaphed, Drouamine.
Get it from: Frittte, Rosemary, containers on the map
Brands: Astra, Tiomoutiri
Thoughts: “Boiadeiro” from passing Manana’s Conceptualization check amplifies smokes.
Did you know: tracking the “Tioumoutiri” brand of smokes can lead to revelations in your main investigation.
PYRHOLIDON
Bonus: +1 Psyche
Damages: -1 Health (-1 Endurance)
Healed by: Nosaphed, Drouamine
Get it from: Roy, after passing an Electrochemistry white check.
Brands: none
Thoughts. “Cop of the Apocalypse” doubles Pyrholidon’s effect.
Did you know: Pyrholidon is an anti-radiation drug. Using anti-radiation drugs recreationally was a beloved pastime of Soviet hippies and punk-rockers. (Tareen was one such drug.)
ALCOHOL
Bonus: +1 Physique
Damages: -1 Morale (-1 Volition)
Healed by: Magnesium, Hypnogamma
Get it from: Fritte, Rosemary, from containers on the map
Brands: Commodore Red, Potent Pilsner, Pale-Aged Vodka
Thoughts: “Revacholian Nationhood” unlocks the full heroic power of alcohol. “Waste Land of Reality” does… the opposite.
Did you know: Disco Elysium is produced by reformed alkies who quit “the Ghoul”; turns out it’s not possible to get a 60+ hour RPG and a drink on simultaneously.
SPEED
Bonus: +1 Motorics
Damages: -1 Morale (-1 Volition)
Healed by: Magnesium, Hypnogamma
Get it from: Klaasje’s medicine cabinet, a quest after passing Cuno’s Empathy check.
Brands: Preptide, trucker speed with a straw in it
Thoughts: “Lonesome Long Way Home” makes speed also give +1 Psyche too.
Did you know: The logos you see for drugs, including the one for amphetamine, are their actual molecules. (Or, in Pyrholidon’s case, their fictitious molecules). We enrolled the help of a chemist to make sure they make sense. Thanks, chemist!
So that’s it. Drugs are a multi-tool offering more flexibility and role playing options. But, on the other hand, they distort your personality and are completely incompatible with staying alive after you’re 30 (trust us). And it’s quite possible to make do without them. If there were a character sheet in Disco Elysium, the last field would be: Drug of Choice. The strongest DoC is the fifth, hidden drug we like to call Life and Your Mother’s Love.
True bad asses get high on that
Until next time,
Roberto Kurvitzo, maker of RPG’s; reformed Narcomaniac.
PS. Thank you for playing and sharing your stories in forums and media. It’s you who make it all worthwhile.
Like people said, not on the level of Planescape sadly, but i did enjoy playing it, it has good ideas and i honestly want to see the developer do either more with the setting, or use their experience making this game to make another game like Disco Elysium but better.
Either way, some bugs and flaws in this game that drag it down a little, but hopefully they will be patched out, also, maybe i am just looking at the right places, but it seems the game is selling much better than i expected, i mean, it's a 40 bucks game without the best graphics in the world, partial voice acting and it's pretty much dialogue based, yet people are talking about it and getting it, seriously, this is the kind of game that normally i wouldn't expect to sell even if it cost 19.99 but i am glad to have been proven wrong.
This is actually consistent with most respectable detective stories and cop dramas (think The Wire, The Shield etc. rather than, uh, 24) -- more often than not the gun is an ornament rather than something that actually gets fired.
This is actually consistent with most respectable detective stories and cop dramas (think The Wire, The Shield etc. rather than, uh, 24) -- more often than not the gun is an ornament rather than something that actually gets fired.
But those shows have to consider airing and censorship shit, whereas Disco Elysium doesn't, and shouldn't. Also, there's many ways to use a gun that doesn't require discharging it, whether it's putting it in someone's mouth (or your own).
Every character is excellently written.
The skill system is fun, and different skills give you different vibes for your character.
The side quests are pretty good too, and you can screw them up by missing things or making wrong decisions.
The atmosphere - visuals, music, everything - really pulls you in.
The main mystery is actually pretty fun to uncover.
I like the structure of the game being split into days, and every action and dialogue choice advancing time (rather than time advancing automatically in real time).
Only the ending was a little disappointing, and I hoped for more occasions where your gun would come in handy.
So while everyone is focused on Steam, I just noticed DE still at the top of bestselling games on GOG.
In another fun experiment, I went and found where it currently is under everything when listed by bestselling (all time). Page 25, which isn't much, but if the order is truly correct, this means on the other hand that on GOG it has already outsold the standard edition of Deadfire, which is on the next page. Still another edition ahead of it as well, though...
Kasparov Roberto! Robertini! Qué pasa? Come va amico? Thank you for the game. Playing straight is hilarious. It's the good shit amigo. Love the necktie / electro-chemistry bromance. If Harry wasn't already a cop, he'd be a good lawyer to Hunter S Thompson.
So while everyone is focused on Steam, I just noticed DE still at the top of bestselling games on GOG.
In another fun experiment, I went and found where it currently is under everything when listed by bestselling (all time). Page 25, which isn't much, but if the order is truly correct, this means on the other hand that on GOG it has already outsold the standard edition of Deadfire, which is on the next page. Still another edition ahead of it as well, though...
Again, more than i expected, i see that whenever a niche game or one that isn't made by an AAA developer with the best graphics ever is being sold for 40 bucks, there are always people complaining about it being too expensive, how there's a lack of content or that other games like it are cheaper and yadda yadda.
Not Disco Elysium, sure, there are still people complaining about the price, but people are quite willing to pay for this game, maybe i just had the wrong impression of gamers, but i expected this to be a really small game that only a few RPG gamers would buy at full price while the rest waited for a sale, i really did, thankfully, this game has been selling well enough i hope the developer makes more games like it.
Well, Disco Elysium has a very high aggregate score among major reviewers, and as mentioned earlier, even got major newspapers into the mix. Not to mention something like 93% positive on Steam, 8.2 player average on metacritic, etc. That doesn't happen very often with non AAA type games. $40 for such a highly praised game seems quite reasonable, compared to $60 for any kind of new AA-AAA game.
I don't understand how people are saying there are no choices, either you played similar to how you did before or you're exaggerating. I played twice and got wildly different results on each play-through. Your actions have have huge consequences both for yourself and the setting, even if the game doesn't shove them in your face through ending slides.
Since people don't seem to believe me, here are my two different endings:
First: I don't tell Joyce about Evrart or his plans and leave the quest open. I don't have a gun. I completely fuck up the Tribunal - everyone is killed and Kim is in the hospital. The mercenaries cause a massacre and civil war seems inevitable, as Wild Pines will send in more mercenaries.. Cuno joins me on my way to the island. I fail to establish the Deserter as the killer nor do I find out his motive. I don't get a picture of the Phasmid, so the police force not only thinks I'm a complete failure but also insane. Revachol is fucked and I'm kicked off the force, the only silver lining I have is that Cuno gets recruited into the force.
Second: I continue the Harbour quest until the ending, convincing Joyce to not send in the mercenaries. She goes away and decides to give the Harbour to Evrart. I speak to him and it turns out this was his plan all along, the talk of a civil war being a bluff. I get my gun from the Pigs. I pass all the possible checks for the Tribunal, but since I didn't stall for time 4 of the Hardie boys die. Nonetheless, the mercenaries are killed - averting a massacre. Kim is also saved and joins me. Due to the mercenaries being killed and Joyce giving up the harbour to Evrart civil war is avoided (for now) and Revachol is in a much better position. Kim and I go to the island together. I get a confession out of the Deserter, establish him as the killer *and* get a motive. Kim gets a picture of the Phasmid. I solved the case and averted a civil war. Kim is able to vouch for me and my work. Since we have the picture I will become the superstar cop I've always wanted to be because I discovered a new species. Not only does the force take me back, I get Kim to be recruited as well.
I've criticised repeatedly the railroading the game has at the end. But to say there is neither choice nor consequence and you get the same ending no matter what is a lie.
