Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[RK47]

I stuck at those death knights, is there anyway to not play Metal Gear Divinity?

Craft invis pot.
Air Resist + Armor Pot.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

So what was the statement that Swen made regarding MP making SP better? Was he referring to the increased amount of testing that has to be done in considering MP scenarios benefiting the SP experience?

All he's saying is that since the whole game is designed with MP in mind from the start - it has strengthened SP in some way.
This is hype speak. Even the evidence he presented didn't convince me at all.

PCG: Can you go into a little more detail on the kind of personalities that you're shipping in the update?

Vincke: We'll have a knight. That's what you can imagine. Then we'll have a rascal, a maniac, a judge— somebody who's very judgmental—a priest, and a free-spirit, They basically all have different traits that they prefer.

If you put in, let's say, a judgmental character, who would for instance refuse to hire a companion, that's a very big impact on your game right there. If you role-play through that, that really changes your game. It's something that can happen in multiplayer also, right? It's basically what we're trying to do. This gives single-players the feeling of what you get in co-op multiplayer, when you deal with the actions of somebody else.

Nice try, Sven. But people in co-op tend to...you know, cooperate. Not fucking randomly fuck the party up.
Which is what happened to Tigranes. His only solution is to outright murder his partner before talking to the guy. Then resurrect post quest completion.

PCG: Did you guys have a sense of the right way for someone to try to play this game? Is it really designed for multiplayer or is it designed to be single-player and the multiplayer is just a bonus for people who want to make that commitment?

Vincke: It's been designed from the bottom-up with the multiplayer in mind, under the motto that the multiplayer will make the single-player stronger. That sounds strange, so allow me to explain that.


[...] When you're playing it in multiplayer you can be rest assured that becomes very unpredictable, what people are doing. A lot of the development effort was actually focused around that. I'm really happy that we've done it, because typically people always say it dumbs a game down, the fact that you have the multiplayer, and I think in our case it actually strengthens it.

Which I concede it did not dumb the game down, MP is in no way strengthen the SP for me. In fact, whenever people bring up the irksome - 'multiple wallet in trade window' or the 'stupid discussion mini-game' it was all due to the co-op design taking place. That they simply didn't want to detach from the SP adds more to the annoyance. Party argument in SP should ALWAYS be disabled, there is no fix to 'random game of persuasion' to resolve C&C. It adds absolutely nothing to the game but extra clicks to resolve a persuasion check.

My only comfort in Multiplayer is the ability to spam pyramid teleport in real time to catch up with my party leader.
This way, I can lock camera on him, while leaving my character standing still. This way, I can see what was he doing, what's being said between conversations and actually get a better picture of the whole narrative instead of having him repeat what was discussed.

Some of that shit is pretty silly. I selected no AI so I have to click through all the fucking conversations and agree with myself, or I can disagree without consequence, making the whole fuckin thing pointless unless someone prefers to LARP both sides of a conversation.

I can see the angle of having to test against possible MP scenarios leads to discovery and fixing of more bugs but that's about it.

 

[RK47]

Some of that shit is pretty silly. I selected no AI so I have to click through all the fucking conversations and agree with myself, or I can disagree without consequence, making the whole fuckin thing pointless unless someone prefers to LARP both sides of a conversation.

Thing is those who minmax wants to have no AI so you can 'game the trait' system.
Example: Thief wants Cautious. Fighter wants Bold etc.
There's no point to have both members Pragmatic - cause +1 Crafting is enough for a single member etc.
Excidium calls it 'Power-larping.'
P.banal.

Post lunch edit:
If they wanted to have that involving kind of larpy interaction with a party member that adds C&C, why not put that in for Jahan and Madora?

All I've seen so far are nothing but bitching and whining from those 2 and they did absolutely nothing. They will not leave a party - except for one moment I used bloodletting to leech-heal Madora. Even then I can just return to the Homestead and pick her back up like it was nothing.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

RK47 So you are enjoying the game ... but also butthurt on Swen for some marketing speak?

He is the founder and CEO of Larian FFS. He has to give some retarded justification to the manboons who interview him for why it isn't a railroaded cinematic QTE fest ...

He used to try earlier to mention those dudebro interviewers about system interaction in Ultima 7 for instance...

 

[sqeecoo]

People who think Witcher is better than DOS should be banned from the Codex.

Are you being serious here or are you trollin? I mean, about DOS being clearly better than the Witcher, because I'd genuinely like to hear your reasoning on that. Sure, combat is infinitely better in DOS (if only because TW combat is shit), but the story is infinitely better in TW (if only because the DOS story is shit). Quests and gameplay are about equal, with flaws to both games, but good sides too. Atmosphere and art direction way better in TW, puzzles and such better in DOS.

But while good mechanics can make a RPG good, I've always valued story over mechanics, which is why I'd consider PST the best RPG despite utterly shitty combat and why I love TW but only enjoy DOS.

Where do we disagree?

 

[RK47]

RK47 So you are enjoying the game ... but also butthurt on Swen for some marketing speak?

I enjoyed the game but disliked the overly positive spin on co-op. I still stick to my guns that Co-Op adding nothing much to the game.
Aside from that, the story lost momentum at halfway point and I simply couldn't care to finish the game in single player once a single strategy was sufficient to beat 75% of the encounters.
What surprised me is how some people defended him and claimed I'm making a big deal out of it. (Shut up, it's fun) These people who were so critical about Todd's lies and Bioware's Story above Gameplay principle - suddenly gave Sven a free pass for spouting nonsense. Just because Larian is a small time company who needed the sales and positive marketing? Or is it because it's just like Obsidian who made GREAT unfinished game?

I like it, and I hate it. Why can't I feel like that? How can I absolutely like it? The story is just one generic epic trash thrown in your face one after another. The flimsy presentation and pacing didn't help. Nor the notion of balance is pr. much crumbled at the mere min-maxing of 'logical' skill choices.

Experiencing so many single player aspect being 'strengthened' didn't help.
I'm not Roguey. I played it - I saw what's wrong, post it and wanted them to at least acknowledge these flaws and maybe not make the same mistake in future game they're developing.
I'm not opposed to buying another game with this engine - but please don't make the same mistakes again. What a terrible waste! Post-Cyseal the whole thing just unraveled. Invulnerable enemies, poorly worded dialogues and exposition. Shit that made me not care about finishing the game.

It's such a waste, isn't it?

To me D:OS is a flawed gem, I played it as far as I could go, credit to co-op partner for bearing with me.
I got to the end and that was it. My motivation to replay it just vaporizes.

Sure, combat is infinitely better in DOS (if only because TW combat is shit), but the story is infinitely better in TW (if only because the DOS story is shit).

So...which would you like to...'play' more? Or... do you want to watch the whole story thing play in youtube?

 

[Crooked Bee]

I stuck at those death knights, is there anyway to not play Metal Gear Divinity?

Feather Fall. There's a place there where you can teleport your guys over a chasm and reach the inner sanctum door without encountering any or most of the knights.

 

[sqeecoo]

Sure, combat is infinitely better in DOS (if only because TW combat is shit), but the story is infinitely better in TW (if only because the DOS story is shit).

So...which would you like to...'play' more? Or... do you want to watch the whole story thing play in youtube?

TW over DOS, sure. PST over TW
I said combat was shit, not gameplay. Quests are good, exploration is good, dialogues are good in TW, to name a few gameplay elements. Even saying combat is shit in TW is overstating it a bit. It's better than in PST, I think.

 

[RK47]

It really depends on what is important to each gamer.
I think a lot of people would rather have better gameplay than story.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

PST stick to reading books for story then. Or better yet MOOBIES.

Also sqeeco did you steath tag me?
Also RK, Swen does put gameplay above story and he is nowhere near the filthy scammer fuck Brian Fargo is, or thebig fraud that Chris Avellone is. Or the Zenimax Cocksucker Todd is. Or the humongous faggot of epic proportions that David Gaider is.

 

[sqeecoo]

It really depends on what is important to each gamer.
I think a lot of people would rather have better gameplay than story.

Sure, fair enough. And some games may legitimately prioritize one over the other. Some of my favorite (5/5 ) games like x-com or JA2 have only serviceable story but great gameplay.

 

[RK47]

Also RK Swen does put gameplay above story and he is nowhere near the filthy scammer fuck Brian Fargo is...

If he is above story....then please just no saving the world trope next time.
Give us a simple adventurer defending a town stuff. Don't waste players' energy and developers time in adding these shenanigans.
I can't believe I'm advocating TOEE approach to storytelling but that's just how bad I felt when forced to go through the whole narrative.
Its almost impossible to larp when the whole setup is almost unpalatable. If a DM throws this kind of shit on PnP most of the players would've taken their doritos and left.

 

[Mangoose]

Also RK Swen does put gameplay above story and he is nowhere near the filthy scammer fuck Brian Fargo is...

If he is above story....then please just no saving the world trope next time.
Give us a simple adventurer defending a town stuff. Don't waste players' energy and developers time in adding these shenanigans.
I can't believe I'm advocating TOEE approach to storytelling but that's just how bad I felt when forced to go through the whole narrative.
Its almost impossible to larp when the whole setup is almost unpalatable. If a DM throws this kind of shit on PnP most of the players would've taken their doritos and left.

Kinda weird, their previous games were mostly about saving/defending a region or a town.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Stuff

Valid criticism, and it's nice to see someone with a balanced opinion that doesn't ignore every flaw because 'It's fun'.
Gotta disagree that co-op adds nothing though, to the singleplayer, obviously not. But co-op doesn't need to add anything besides the ability to play through with your friends, obviously biased because I bought this game primarily for the co-op, but I think it's well done, can't think of anything better for it in recent memory.

 

[cvv]

Co-Op adding nothing much to the game.

Agreed.

The story is just one generic epic trash thrown in your face one after another....poorly worded dialogues and exposition......I'm not opposed to buying another game with this engine - but please don't make the same mistakes again.

Agreed, the story and writing is frankly terrible, I'd expect this level from a 15 year old boy who just read Eragon and though "I can do this too!"

When someone says "fuck story and setting gameplay is everything" I pick up the phone and call Karl the Bullshit Man on their ass. It's called role playing for a reason, a good story is always a plus and a good setting is uber important. Immersion does matter. The reason Codex ridicules Bioware is not because they obsess over immershun in an RPG but because they shit on everything else. If you ignore writing you get games like Divinity II that are very good mechanically but because of the bad teenage-level exposition and setting you simply lose the drive to play halfway through.

Then again, to be fair, there's isn't a single fantasy game with a genuinely interesting plot, adult characters and skillful writing save for PST. Witcher at least aims for maturity and non-generic setting although the rest is still p.lackluster. Everything else, including all the Baldur's Gates and Icewind Dales and Dragon Ages, is generic fantasy-fodder trash cobbled together by developers who think writing is easy, they can do it themselves and save $3.50 on a professional. It's like those Hollywood dumbfucks who think a script the least important thing in a movie.

I'm still enjoying DOS immensely because of the fantastic combat and exploration and itemization but I agree it's such a missed opportunity for Larian. They could've thrown a couple of grand dorra to a really good professional writer to sketch some solid plot, setting and characters for them and the game would be a couple of grand times better.

 

[Mangoose]

RK47 I don't at all disagree with your opinions/conclusions but I feel like you're barking up the wrong tree. Your criticism would probably be better served on the Larian forums. Though from a glance at those forums, it seems half the people there also agree with some stuff you (and others here) say like gameplay getting boring/unbalanced as the game continues. And then there are some fanboys but it seems most likers of the game are pretty moderate and accepting of some of the criticism.

Unfortunately the time to be vocal was during beta, and I myself never beta-ed the game and gave feedback while I did have the opportunity to. I'm definitely going to not do the same thing next time there is a promising game.

Also I believe a lot of Larian employees are on a break until the 8th of August. Two more companions are planned to be released in August, by the way. I'm looking forward to that because then you won't have to avoid Man-at-Arms, Aero, and Hydro on your heroes if you want diversity of skills in your party.

 

[cvv]

Unfortunately the time to be vocal was during beta, and I myself never beta-ed the game and gave feedback while I did have the opportunity to. I'm definitely going to not do the same thing next time there is a promising game.

Unfortunately, as far as the plot, setting and characters are concerned, the time to be vocal is during pre-production.

 

[Mangoose]

Unfortunately the time to be vocal was during beta, and I myself never beta-ed the game and gave feedback while I did have the opportunity to. I'm definitely going to not do the same thing next time there is a promising game.

Unfortunately, as far as the plot, setting and characters are concerned, the time to be vocal is during pre-production.

Well then I can blame all of us for not being vocal enough, lol. But I don't think we had an inkling of what they wanted to do, especially since (from what I remember) DivDiv and Div2 and FoV had average stories - not bad or good.

At least we made it clear that combat was shit in Larian's previous games, and while DOS is not perfect, it was definitely a step up.

Speaking practically, I suppose the best we can do is to be vocal (about plot, setting, characters) when they plan their next game, or possibly expansion to DOS.

 

[cvv]

At least we made it clear that combat was shit in Larian's previous games, and while DOS is not perfect, it was definitely a step up.

True that.

 

[Cadmus]

At least we made it clear that combat was shit in Larian's previous games, and while DOS is not perfect, it was definitely a step up.

True that.

I don't actually know what more you would want from a combat system. I think this one might be one of the best TB system's in an open world game I've ever seen. There's some technical details about it that annoy me but the system is awesome. WHat's "not perfect" about it?

 

[cvv]

At least we made it clear that combat was shit in Larian's previous games, and while DOS is not perfect, it was definitely a step up.

True that.

I don't actually know what more you would want from a combat system. I think this one might be one of the best TB system's in an open world game I've ever seen. There's some technical details about it that annoy me but the system is awesome. WHat's "not perfect" about it?

The combat actually is almost perfect, I was agreeing with Mangoose's upbeat suggestion that Larian listened to player feedback combat-wise so maybe they'll listen writing-wise too.

 

[Mangoose]

At least we made it clear that combat was shit in Larian's previous games, and while DOS is not perfect, it was definitely a step up.

True that.

I don't actually know what more you would want from a combat system. I think this one might be one of the best TB system's in an open world game I've ever seen. There's some technical details about it that annoy me but the system is awesome. WHat's "not perfect" about it?

Oh fuck off. I praised the combat for being better so what the fuck jumping to defense for? Secondly, there are plenty of examples in this thread where combat could be better, mostly in the later game. Thirdly, I said combat as a whole, which means system + encounters + itemization + AI + etc. And fourthly, "not perfect" doesn't mean it's not pretty good.

 

[t]

Lower than CS go on the charts, what the balls is going on.

 

[Cadmus]

At least we made it clear that combat was shit in Larian's previous games, and while DOS is not perfect, it was definitely a step up.

True that.

I don't actually know what more you would want from a combat system. I think this one might be one of the best TB system's in an open world game I've ever seen. There's some technical details about it that annoy me but the system is awesome. WHat's "not perfect" about it?

Oh fuck off. I praised the combat for being better so what the fuck jumping to defense for? Secondly, there are plenty of examples in this thread where combat could be better, mostly in the later game. Thirdly, I said combat as a whole, which means system + encounters + itemization + AI + etc. And fourthly, "not perfect" doesn't mean it's not pretty good.

calm down, I wasnt jumping anywhere and I havent read the past 200 pages so I was really only asking, yknow?

 

[Lhynn]

The combat system is one of the best ive seen, it just needs a lot of tweaking.