Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

No teleport

No finishing the game then.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Challenge isn't the only criterium for having fun, you know.
Fallout for example had zero challenge but decapitating or melting hobos with the toy of your choice was so much fun.

D:OS is even more fun because in addition to that sort of specul effects the game actually has some depth to its combat and char building mechanics so you can fool around trying to find the builds that are the most op ...
Pretty much the same kind of fun Morrowind had, only that imo that was the only kind of fun Morrowind had to offer (I know, this is outrage, I will shut up about Morrowind ;P).

Just sayin' ...

 

[J_C]

Challenge isn't the only criterium for having fun, you know.
Just sayin' ...

That's why I don't cry about the balance, despite I'm steamrolling the opposition in the last third of the game. Because I earned it. I did some pretty tough fights in the beginning, because I visited the higher level places earlier than I was meant to. I gained a lot of levels, so right now I feel comfortable to be stronger than anyone.

To be honest, I'm nearing 100 hours, and the game wore me down a little, I welcome the easy fights at the end.

 

[Aeschylus]

Challenge isn't the only criterium for having fun, you know.
Fallout for example had zero challenge but decapitating or melting hobos with the toy of your choice was so much fun.

True enough, but if challenge is absent then it needs something else to hold it up. D:OS has some of these things -- good exploration, very flexible game systems, and some well designed fights. However, since it's a game that rests mostly on its combat given the relatively weak nature of its narrative/atmosphere, the game providing consistent challenge all the way to the end in support of its largest element (combat) would have been a good thing.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I have found myself having to cut through large swaths of enemies well below my level because my party was fighting over their weight after missing whole areas. This is really underlining the loot system as I can safely ignore EVERY PIECE.

Still, I like the openness. I tend to beat these games completely off script and I follow my whims.

 

[Gord]

Finished it earlier today. Took me a bit longer due to limited free time and summer vacation.

All in all, pretty cool.
Not perfect (mostly due to minor annoyances, some missed opportunities here and there and the merely serviceable writing - anyone else thought that the writing style of the dialogues is a bit contrived at times?), but still one of the best games released in the last years (that I've played).

After playing Cyseal since the beta days, I'll probably wait a while before I replay it, however. Maybe a bit of co-op with a friend, but that's it.

 

[sbb]

anyone else thought that the writing style of the dialogues is a bit contrived at times?)

"contrived"? I'm not sure I understand

 

[Jaesun]

"contrived"? I'm not sure I understand

contrived
[kuh n-trahyvd]
adjective
1. obviously planned or forced; artificial; strained:
"a contrived story."

 

[sbb]

"contrived"? I'm not sure I understand

contrived
[kuh n-trahyvd]
adjective
1. obviously planned or forced; artificial; strained:
"a contrived story."

I know the definition of contrived, I just didn't see how a could be contrived at first.

 

[Gord]

Hm, maybe "contrived" isn't exactly the rigt word here. Non-native speaker and all...

At times the language (words, sentence structure) used in D:OS seemed a bit, hm, flowery?, exaggerated? to me.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

It makes sense alright, considering the writer is flemish and was probably high as fuck when he wrote that.

 

[sbb]

Ok, sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Mangoose]

anyone else thought that the writing style of the dialogues is a bit contrived at times?

Somewhat. I think it's more that they tried to hard to be silly. Div2 was better in not being so excessive. Probably DivDiv too, but I never finished that.

---

On the RPS minigame. I agree it's stupid (again trying to hard to be silly?). I like J_C 's idea - my only concern is that it might have difficulties to implement depending if Larian, in the scripting, differentiated between "big decisions" and "little decisions."

An alternative idea - assuming J_C's idea is not feasible could be to have the RPS only during banter, and RPS not occur during any quest choices.

Third idea I had was just to present the player the option of having non-random checks. In other words, if your "score" is higher than the opponents, you automatically win. Again I'm not sure how feasible this is. But I think this would solve a lot of complaints.

ForkTong any thoughts on the above three ideas?


However, while I agree that the complaints on the RPS are valid, there are many ways to avoid it. Set no AI, set loyal AI, turn off dual dialogues.. can't remember if there is another option. I agree that it's wasted potential when you take out the disagreements, but I don't think you can say any worse than that.

So again perhaps VentilatorOfDoom is right, prioritize balancing the mid-to-endgame and the skills before worrying about the RPS.

 

[sbb]

I haven't really gotten how the writing is too much or "trying too hard". It pretty convincingly gets across the mood, tells some funny jokes but it stops there mercifully, I think so far.

 

[Coriolanus]

I have found myself having to cut through large swaths of enemies well below my level because my party was fighting over their weight after missing whole areas. This is really underlining the loot system as I can safely ignore EVERY PIECE.

Still, I like the openness. I tend to beat these games completely off script and I follow my whims.

D:OS to me is openness done wrong. Yes, you can go tackle the harder areas first - this is cool. However, coming back to earlier areas (which you will, if you want to complete the story) you'll be rewarded with a complete snoozefest.

 

[Mangoose]

I have found myself having to cut through large swaths of enemies well below my level because my party was fighting over their weight after missing whole areas. This is really underlining the loot system as I can safely ignore EVERY PIECE.

Still, I like the openness. I tend to beat these games completely off script and I follow my whims.

D:OS to me is openness done wrong. Yes, you can go tackle the harder areas first - this is cool. However, coming back to earlier areas (which you will, if you want to complete the story) you'll be rewarded with a complete snoozefest.

Uh.. so you want level scaling?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Well to be fair, ToME handles level scaling superbly.

 

[Jaesun]

Well to be fair, ToME handles level scaling superbly.

How exactly?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

play it and see.

 

[Coriolanus]

I have found myself having to cut through large swaths of enemies well below my level because my party was fighting over their weight after missing whole areas. This is really underlining the loot system as I can safely ignore EVERY PIECE.

Still, I like the openness. I tend to beat these games completely off script and I follow my whims.

D:OS to me is openness done wrong. Yes, you can go tackle the harder areas first - this is cool. However, coming back to earlier areas (which you will, if you want to complete the story) you'll be rewarded with a complete snoozefest.

Uh.. so you want level scaling?

A non-sequitur right there.

I want openness done right, or not done at all. It's clear D:OS makers had a clear path in mind for you to take through the first two areas and you'd be punished with a lopsided difficulty curve if you wandered around, like I did.

I love open environments and freedom of exploration, so in D:OS I ran around the Cyseal area running into things far above my level - dying, reloading, finding the right approach etc. was hard, but rewarding. I don't mind the 'find 100 ways to screw with the dumb AI' game when it's fresh and the odds are against you. However, soon I realized I missed Black Cove and went to explore there at level 10 - bam, everything there is level 7 and it's 3-4 hours of my life wasted on trash combat. Same with the winter zone that I didn't find until I was almost done with Silverglen; the Frost King died in one round. Another 6+ hours of trash combat. Why didn't they at least bother to put one optional, harder enemy in the easy areas to spice things up (e.g. BG2 had Liches hidden around)? I hate to say it, but RTwP handles trash combat much better.

Let's not even talk about the fact your characters become immortal/godlike once you get the 'right' skills/spells. I'm sure it was mentioned in this thread too many times already.

First 10 hours: "this is a 10/10 RPG, finally!"

20: "well it has many flaws but it also has fun turn-based combat, fun writing and a great soundtrack! 9/10"

30: "I hope it gets more challenging, this is turning into a slog. 8/10"

Final 40-50: "I hope this will be over soon. Good for what it is, at least. 7/10"

Openness is fine with good encounter/system design, e.g. in Gothics being stronger simply means you can end monsters faster but you can die just as easy if you're not careful. You feel powerful but not all-too-powerful. Hell, in the original Divinity the threat of death was always real. That was openness done *right*, or at least not as disastrously wrong as in D:OS where lower level/equal level things are never a threat.

I'm actually in the minority here I think since I liked the tongue-in-cheek writing for the most part. I didn't mind the simple plot. I loved the challenge and the freedom of exploration for the first 1/4 of the game. However, I don't think I'll ever replay it unless there are some really good mods to fix combat, encounter design, broken skills and the dumb AI.

 

[Mangoose]

Openness is fine with good encounter/system design, e.g. in Gothics being stronger simply means you can end monsters faster but you can die just as easy if you're not careful. You feel powerful but not all-too-powerful. Hell, in the original Divinity the threat of death was always real. That was openness done *right*.

Those are action RPGs.

 

[Coriolanus]

Openness is fine with good encounter/system design, e.g. in Gothics being stronger simply means you can end monsters faster but you can die just as easy if you're not careful. You feel powerful but not all-too-powerful. Hell, in the original Divinity the threat of death was always real. That was openness done *right*.

Those are action RPGs.

You're nitpicking and missing the point. I already gave the example of BG2 where areas often had some hard, optional enemies that would challenge you even if you came there at a different time that you were supposed to without dragging you down with trash combat since it was over in a few seconds. Many problems in D:OS could simply be fixed by better encounter design, e.g. adding a few cool optional encounters/bosses to lower level areas.

I'm not even stressing this as the main flaw of the game since you could just read up on the way things are supposed to be done in advance and save yourself from the frustration, even though it does make the appeal of future replays next to nil.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I don't mind plowing through weaker enemies, the fights are fast and it's cool to see some one shot kills on a nice crit from time to time. The levelled loot is the real drag. If they are going to level loot, level with me.

 

[Mangoose]

Openness is fine with good encounter/system design, e.g. in Gothics being stronger simply means you can end monsters faster but you can die just as easy if you're not careful. You feel powerful but not all-too-powerful. Hell, in the original Divinity the threat of death was always real. That was openness done *right*.

Those are action RPGs.

You're nitpicking and missing the point. I already gave the example of BG2 where areas often had some hard, optional enemies that would challenge you even if you came there at a different time that you were supposed to without dragging you down with trash combat since it was over in a few seconds.

Are you sure you've actually explored every single niche? BG2's hard optional enemies were quite often hidden and hard to find or activate.

The levelled loot is the real drag. If they are going to level loot, level with me.

Agreed here. Well actually I'd prefer hand placed loot, and perhaps equipment that isn't necessarily stronger just because it's higher level. Though I do have some lower leveled equipment that are lower in armor/damage but have effects I like more, like resistances or +stats or a certain element (e.g. poison procs annoy me because I use fire a lot which causes explosions that hit damage my own melee guys as well as put up annoying smokescreens).

 

[Tigranes]

I wonder what's with so many recent RPGs fucking up loot? DS3, D:OS, R3, etc - and TW2 wasn't stellar on that front either. Is it a consequence of devs shifting to random loot tables and still learning to make it work good? I'd prefer a combination where key loot is handplaced to ensure some degree of progression and excitement.