Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[Mareus]

The RPS minigame is currently bugged, I think somebody in this thread told it will be fixed in a patch?
Assuming it will turn into a dice roll with chances of success based by your charisma stat, I'm fine with that. You don't really influence "moral choices" that way. Your character makes his choice/solves his deep moral dilemma/whatever and subsequently either fails or succeeds to influence his party based on a roll that is tied to one of his stats.
This is a generally silly/lighthearted game where larping deep moral choices doesn't really apply, so I don't understand why this would bother somebody so much.

What I dont understand is the argument that just because the game is lighthearted that deep moral choices don't really apply. With that kind of reasoning you could defend lack of any depth.

 

[Internet]

DOS is a funny and lighthearted stomp with great tb combat and some interesting mechanics and environment interactions to play with. That's at least the way I see it.
The story and setting are simply made so that they are flexible ("neutral", if you want) enough that Larian can throw into them whatever quirky and nonsensical ideas/sidequests/encounters they come up with and nothing really feels out of place.
Keeping this in mind, I feel that a stronger focus on story and moral choices would feel out of place and possibly even detract from the overall experience as it is currently presented.
This is not a game like, say, Mask of the Betrayer with a strong focus on following an overarching narrative that can be tweaked and manipulated by your decisions. It's more like a series of "somewhat loosely connected" stuff to play with and fuck aruond for your amusement.
Having a serious discussion about the nature of religions/purpose of life/"you get the idea" between cooking a talking clamp and fighting a suicidal zombie automaton would, in my opinion, feel out of place and forced (the opposite is also true).
That's the best way I can put it and I understand why this could be a fault for somebody.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Ohh....the of storyfags...

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

fyi you can really feather fall Icara out of the ice block and then unfreeze her, but she won't talk

still discussing the awesomeness of this RPS crap? hint: in singleplayer it's utter shit, replaying the game it's utter shit, seriously, how long did they think a normal human will put up with playing this idiotic minigame, time and again? Spacebar it is, all the way.

 

[Lhynn]

The RPS minigame is currently bugged, I think somebody in this thread told it will be fixed in a patch?
Assuming it will turn into a dice roll with chances of success based by your charisma stat, I'm fine with that. You don't really influence "moral choices" that way. Your character makes his choice/solves his deep moral dilemma/whatever and subsequently either fails or succeeds to influence his party based on a roll that is tied to one of his stats.
This is a generally silly/lighthearted game where larping deep moral choices doesn't really apply, so I don't understand why this would bother somebody so much.

What I dont understand is the argument that just because the game is lighthearted that deep moral choices don't really apply. With that kind of reasoning you could defend lack of any depth.

Eric is right.

 

[Gord]

I want to know WHY do you think that this is how it should be done, and when I say WHY I mean, please make a valid argument for a change.

I don't really give a shit if you find my argument valid, but I like the mechanic because I consider it (the personalities and its ramifications, not the RPS mini game, see also below) a novel and interesting way to (potentially) give the characters some will of their own and add some unpredictability to the game.
As it's not mandatory and can be evaded or just switched off, I don't consider it a problem either, should someone not like the concept.

And as I have already explained, I have put two points into charisma and I keep failing the RPS minigame. I honestly win on a 50:50 ratio, but even if I was winning on a 80:20 ratio, I still think it is plain stupid to let luck determine how to handle moral dilemmas. And as I already explained there are ways around this problem even in 2 player co op.

Some things about your issues with the RPS minigame:
1) the points you get from winning is decided by your points in charisma, the situation/approach and the opponents skills. 2 is not really much, most of the time you won't see much effect below 3 or 4 charisma even early in the game. The situational modifier (-1,0,+1) is also relatively minor. This is something that should be balanced a bit, imho.
2) You can bypass RPS completely by hitting space. That should bring up a role based on your charisma, the situation/approach and the opponent. However Larian has allegedly confirmed that it's currently bugged and will always give a 50:50 chance. Hoping for next patch.
3) I'm under the impression that RPS is not a pure random matter but that there's some simple AI behind it that takes into consideration your last moves. At least I seem to be able to win somewhat reliably by applying some strategy (like choosing the opposite of what would win against your last draw or not always choosing the same). I don't have proof for that, though, it might be an illusion.
4) RPS might be nice for coop, but not so much for single player. It gets somewhat boring eventually and I would prefer a working roll against your charisma on space. Fingers crossed for the next patch.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

The problem is the existence of alternate outcomes that people WILL simulate and experience before making a choice. If your party members had fixed personalities people would simply adjust and synthesize happiness. By introducing the myth of choice and enabling people to mentally simulate different outcomes based on different choices, Larian has inserted a facet of unhappiness and discontent. Compounding the effect, the RNG can make for you the choice you didn't want to make in the first place.

Give this video a watch and apply to this scenario. People would be happier if there were no or fewer outcomes to consider.

 

[Mareus]

I don't really give a shit if you find my argument valid, but I like the mechanic because I consider it (the personalities and its ramifications, not the RPS mini game, see also below) a novel and interesting way to (potentially) give the characters some will of their own and add some unpredictability to the game.

You can consider the personalities and its ramifications a novelty, but the fact of the matter is that there is nothing novel about them. Many games before Divinity featured party members with different personalities. The only novel thing is the RPS minigame which (effectively) takes away the will both from the characters and the player. So thank you for enriching this thread with your very subjective and factually wrong opinions.

 

[NotAGolfer]

There's nothing novel about AI personalities that actually have an impact on how quests unfold? Come on, you can do better than this.
In IE games for example it just depended on your reputation. Want to play lawful good with an evil party? No problemo, just steal some stuff in an unimportant interior cell. The other way around? Donate some money in the temple of your choice.
Later Bioware games didn't even have that far too easily exploitable mechanic, DA:O for example has one or 2 "moments of crisis" for each recruitable NPC and nothing more.
Fallout also had nothing like that, these NPC companions were pretty much silent except for some nice taunts and stuff in combat. They didn't even leave you if you did the things they claimed to despise (see Cassidy and slaver trait).

Also funny how you move the goalpost by suddenly claiming that this discussion was about the gameworld and its characters reacting to your actions. It was not, this is about the companions and their AI personality.

The only novel thing is the RPS minigame which (effectively) takes away the will both from the characters and the player.

Are you dense or just trolling? Seriously, how often do you want to repeat that bullshit? Noone takes away will from anyone. Ok, maybe you with your thick skull do but that's an entirely different matter.
Here, let me repeat what Gord wrote again, and be a good boy and read really carefully this time.
PC states his opinion on the matter at hand
AI companion expresses his opinion
they argue
and realistically they can't reach an agreement
=> The issue has to be settled somehow, and since this game is goofy and has freaking bushes and rocks as sneaking camouflage Larian decided to implement a rock paper scissors minigame.

Codex, sometimes you are way too autist even for my taste. There comes one of the first heralds of incline and a truly great tb CRPG, but since it happens to also not satisfy our resident storyfags, they have to run rampant in D:OS threads bickering about all kinds of unimportant bullshit.

 

[Jaesun]

Who is this Codex you speak of?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Jaesun... Don't you have anything other than shitty one liners to post?

 

[Jaesun]

I am asking a question.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

So am I.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

All those bitching die roll takes away roleplaying and all that crap should go play VTM PnP. But yes the dialouge RPS is shit.

 

[RK47]

 

[OuterSpace]

Can't remember the last time I've been so addicted to a game. I'm loving it. Really glad I backed and got it on the cheap.

That being said, narrative is pretty weak and UI is a little finicky. My biggest gripe though is the loot avalanche I encounter everywhere I go. So many item drops and useless unidentified equipment. It's even worse if you're in a lower level area. I've started ignoring everything that isn't 'legendary'. I also have a stupid amount of gold that is completely useless.

 

[RK47]

Can't remember the last time I've been so addicted to a game. I'm loving it. Really glad I backed and got it on the cheap.

That being said, narrative is pretty weak and UI is a little finicky. My biggest gripe though is the loot avalanche I encounter everywhere I go. So many item drops and useless unidentified equipment. It's even worse if you're in a lower level area. I've started ignoring everything that isn't 'legendary'. I also have a stupid amount of gold that is completely useless.

It's pretty easy to clear loot bags tho by just gatewaying back to Cyseal.
I dunno, I found a few good pieces from non legendaries, especially those + skill / speed boots.

 

[Waterd]

Since I piad for this game I want ot give this game another shot I will try the game with the following rules to see if i can enjoy it, maybe others can enjoy it this way too

Ironman except with instant death traps (those are bad design imo)
No crafting
No-prebuffing (Despite what people say its very valid to prebuff in this game)
Can´t sell normal weapons armor or accesories.

Maybe now will be alittle more about fun and less about work.

 

[RK47]

Might wanna try playing something else.
Maybe it's just not your cup of tea.

 

[J_C]

One of the most annoying thing in the game is that outside of combat, you cannot do anything, until a spell/ability's animation is finished. I usually prepare for the harder battles with summoning a skeleton and a spider right before the fight starts. But by the time I can summon the spider with the 2nd character, the skeleton's summoning time is already passed. I also can't heal 2 character right after another, because I have to wait until the healing animation is finished. I'm just nitpicking of course, game is awesome, these are just some minor problems.

Clearing up the Phantom Forrest, almost finished it. There is no really challange to be honest, I'm steamrolling the opposition. I don't care that much, it feels good that my party grow in strength.

What I hated is the Bellegar puzzle, where you have to navigate a cat/dog/rat in puzzle to open doors. I opened 2 doors from 3 but the last one got the better of me. This is another fucked up minigame after the RPS, and like the RPS it is so random, it made my piss boil.

 

[Crooked Bee]

One of the most annoying thing in the game is that outside of combat, you cannot do anything, until a spell/ability's animation is finished. I usually prepare for the harder battles with summoning a skeleton and a spider right before the fight starts. But by the time I can summon the spider with the 2nd character, the skeleton's summoning time is already passed.

I think that's done to avoid pre-buffing (or maybe that's an unintended side effect), and that's actually a good thing. Calling summons before the combat is gay.

 

[J_C]

One of the most annoying thing in the game is that outside of combat, you cannot do anything, until a spell/ability's animation is finished. I usually prepare for the harder battles with summoning a skeleton and a spider right before the fight starts. But by the time I can summon the spider with the 2nd character, the skeleton's summoning time is already passed.

I think that's done to avoid pre-buffing (or maybe that's an unintended side effect), and that's actually a good thing. Calling summons before the combat is gay.

Hey, I'm just using the tools the game provides me. But you are probably right, it is for avoiding pre-buffing.

 

[Mareus]

There's nothing novel about AI personalities that actually have an impact on how quests unfold? Come on, you can do better than this.

Again, you misinterpret my argument. I said that there is nothing novel in party members having different AI personalities, and this is the second time you quote mine me and use strawmen to defend your fallacious position. Also, the problem is not that these AI personalities can have an impact on how quests unfold (as I said before I encourage that). For example if an AI personality decided to not participate in a quest he does not agree to, you would get an impact on how quests unfold - and with that I would have no problem. However when all you get is a dice roll and different AI personalities just play along contrary to what they believe just because the dice said so, you are effectively taking away their will.

In IE games for example it just depended on your reputation. Want to play lawful good with an evil party? No problemo, just steal some stuff in an unimportant interior cell. The other way around? Donate some money in the temple of your choice.

Look, you dimwit. Even if BG sucked hard (which it doesn't) that by itself does not make Divinity's RPS system good. So stop using retarded arguments and stick to golf because you fail both in logic and roleplaying games. And yes, the things you say were possible in BG, but at least you had some consequences to what you are doing. What?!, you might be saying now my dimwitted friend. Well you see, in BG there are consequences to doing what you suggested. First of all there is the consequence of having to waste gold in temples to be able to play a good character with an evil party, and secondly having a very high reputation will make evil characters just pack their things and leave after a while, regardless of your attempts to exploit the game's mechanics. And your party members would also complain all the time. The other way around is even harder, since good characters would sometimes even attack you if you went too far into the dark side. The only way to avoid such scenarios was to reload, since there was some luck involved in calculating the chance of your characters abandoning or attacking you, but play long enough and these events are guaranteed to happen. Also, if you played a paladin, doing evil things would prevent you from leveling up until you redeem yourself, which will result in losing a substantial number of EXP if you do not change your ways rapidly. And funny you mention these exploits in BG, a game that at least had some meaningful consequences to your choices, and yet you stand blind to complete lack of any similar choices and consequences in Divinity. In Divinity the personalities cannot attack you when they disagree with you, nor will they abandon you, nor will they complain. They will stay loyal regardless of what the dice says and will often behave completely contrary to their own personality, thus making this "novelty" (pffft) nothing more than a broken gimmick. A petty, because it could be so much more if only they would abandon this retarded RPS gimmick.

Fallout also had nothing like that, these NPC companions were pretty much silent except for some nice taunts and stuff in combat. They didn't even leave you if you did the things they claimed to despise (see Cassidy and slaver trait).

Again, saying how Fallout didn't have something does not mean the RPS mechanic in Divinity is good. Stop using retarded arguments. And again, you are factually wrong. Haven't played Fallout games in ages, but I do remember that Sulik attacks you if you become a slaver, which is already far more than what Divinity has. I don't remember other examples, since it was long time I played Fallout, but again you miss the point. Gord asked me to mention some not IE games that had consequences outside of the outcome to the quest itself. Here Fallout certainly qualifies, since world actively reacts to your actions, which qualifies as consequences outside the outcome of the quest itself, so I am not moving the goal post. I just answered what I was asked.

PC states his opinion on the matter at hand

True.

AI companion expresses his opinion

Also true.

they argue

Nope. They play an RPS minigame.

and realistically they can't reach an agreement
=> The issue has to be settled somehow, and since this game is goofy and has freaking bushes and rocks as sneaking camouflage Larian decided to implement a rock paper scissors minigame.

Well, your premise here is just wrong. There is nothing illogical in allowing people who play in co-op mode to allow them to settle an argument online among themselves. Thus you don't need a broken RPS mechanic for 2 player co-op game. As for single-player game it is just retarded that something as random as a dice roll settles arguments and makes characters do stuff outside their AI personality. Such gimmicks have no place in roleplaying games. Also, game being goofy is a bad argument, because you cannot defend lack of depth with goofiness. If that was the case, one could defend lack of anything with the game being goofy. Stop using retarded arguments.

I mean, I just encountered a problem where some old elf Eldegar(if I remember correctly) unlocks his door for me and invites me to his room. The door is still red and after closing and opening it everyone started attacking me. Should we defend such an obvious problem with arguments like: Oh, the game is just goofy, so Larian decided it would funny if you got attacked after opening and closing a red door.

Codex, sometimes you are way too autist even for my taste.

Thats why you should stick to golf.

There comes one of the first heralds of incline and a truly great tb CRPG, but since it happens to also not satisfy our resident storyfags, they have to run rampant in D:OS threads bickering about all kinds of unimportant bullshit.

My goodness, you really are dimwitted, aren't you? Do I seriously have to think that every single thing in the game is an incline for the game to be amazing? You newfags are bunch of pussified fanboys if you can't handle critique aimed at a very specific and real problem. As I already mentioned before, I think this game overall is a huge incline, and it hits many notes perfectly for an old roleplayer such as myself. However, that does not mean I have to applaud at everything. Divinity has its problems and I am criticizing a very specific issue that I do not want to see in other games. If this horrible RPS gimmick catches on, I am worried other developers may want to implement it, and that is just bad news.

 

[Gord]

You seem actively trying not to understand what others try to tell you, aren't you?
Either you are a shitposter or a troll. Either way not much use in arguing this further.

 

[Mareus]

You seem actively trying not to understand what others try to tell you, aren't you?
Either you are a shitposter or a troll. Either way not much use in arguing this further.

Funny, because you and the golfie-boy here are the only ones that keep misinterpreting my arguments. I say one thing, you guys redefine it and knock down your own argument.