Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[Cyberarmy]

They killed the cheese vendor

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Lacrymas]

If only the quality of the cheese vendor's voice acting was the game's only problem.

 

[V_K]

What is better EE or original?

Voidspire Tactics.

 

[anvi]

List the changes to me and I'll say which is better. I completed the original and I got half way through EE before getting bored, but that wasn't necessarily because it was different, more just that I had done it all once and lost interest.

 

[anvi]

Thanks. I can't even decide :/ Personally I didn't even notice any of those changes! I completed the original game then played the EE about 1 or 2 years later but got bored half way through because it was all so familiar. I thought it was just the same but with voice overs and maybe some engine tweaks. You would probably need to find a hardcore fan who has played it multiple times in the original, and then in EE.

I enjoyed it the first time I completed it. The second time I played I got bored about half way and it was mostly because I had done it all before and not waited long enough before a re-play. But I also felt like the combat was a bit shallow, which didn't bother me the first time. I don't think that was an original vs EE thing, I think it is just that the first time I played I was more impressed by the interactions between the elements. But then the second time I played I already knew about those so there was nothing to learn and it all felt quite boring and basic. You squirt poison or oil on enemies which damages or slows them. Then you use fire and it blows up. Or you use ice/water on stuff to slow/debuff/injure them, and then you use lightning which electrocutes the water. It isn't much to write home about and sadly the entire game is based on that. I think it is well worth a play through though, just maybe not multiple runs unless you use different classes. I am really looking forward to DOS2 because I am thinking they will add more to the combat. I already know it has more importance on height which is something, but hopefully more spells and it will be great.

 

[Lacrymas]

While it may seem that the combat is very basic once you get used to the environmental interactions (and they are quasi-gimmicks anyway) it can offer a lot of depth if the game was difficult enough and character building wasn't so simple... and the loot system wasn't so utterly, incomprehensibly bad. I hope they've learned a thing or two for D:OS2.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I wouldn't bet on them changing the loot system anytime soon though.

 

[Lacrymas]

I know they won't, I personally asked them about it in their AMA. If they can make exploration not feel pointless despite that abysmal loot system, great.

 

[Roguey]

Did someone say item fever?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Did someone say item fever?

Between and games are pretty much fucked as far as itemization is concerned.

 

[Roguey]

Between and games are pretty much fucked as far as itemization is concerned.

Don't forget Styg too.

 

[Chunkyman]

Although the cheese vendor screaming at you is annoying, it's comically annoying and it would feel wrong to do another playthrough without hearing it. It's like when people get so used to their spouses snoring that eventually they have trouble sleeping WITHOUT hearing it.

 

[damager]

How can you fully voice over this game and at the same time leave in this ugly as shit portraits?

Also their solution to "there is too much fire and shit on the battlefield to make melee viable" is to let melees sling even more shit on the battlefield and remove a viable high risk high reward stealth tactic from rogues and make them into bad mages that use consumables instead of cool downs

Who ever made this EE can not into game design at all apparently.

 

[Waterd]

I've tried really hard to like it because I love the combat engine. But I couldn't the game is completly broken.

-Fleeing is overpowered. Do a lot of damage, Flee, repeat.
-Sneak is op, combine it with fleeing, sneek, do damage, flee. You can wipe the entire game no problem.
-You can do similar tricks to fleeing with the stones.
-Charm is op. Just charm everything.
-Out of combat buffs are possible if you are really fast, and brutal if you properly scout the dangers ahead. Making the whole game even more easy, but more of a chore.


-The item micromanagment is insane, the amount of stuff there is to micromanage is just insane you can spend half a playtrhough i guess just looting , micro your items and crafting. Except is not a game , is just a chore.
And the worst part is that crafting is op, you can create the most op items with it (charm arrows, granades)

-Stealing is super easy, and worse part you are forced to steal, you are story wise to be a law abiding citizens, but the only way to progress trough the game is to break the law. Which is highly annoying what kidn of RPG is this?

-Traps are the worst part of the game, they force you to have a scout that SLOWLY advance, and SLOWLY pay attention to the environment making advancing through the game a chore.

-Some traps are even unavoidable without previous knowledge of teh game, making ironman runs impossible without a walkthrough. I don't know what's fun of "oh you want to do this? ok, you are dead, game over"

-Even in combat, the lack of a prper tile system makes it very ambigous in a lot of sitautions what the AOE is gonna affect, specially when you have to connect water and blood pools to predict if electricity will stun X character or not, making it very frustrating, since that is the difference between winning or losing a battle.

-Healing is a chore, why characters do not autoheal at end of combat and you have to be clicking the healing spells and wait for cooldown? makes no sense.

I don't mind that much the op stuff since i can always ban it (no flee, no hiding, no charm, no precombat buffing, no precombat attacks, No granades) etc, though is bad when you have to just cut a lot of the features.
But the micromanagment of trap scouting and item micromanagment is intolerable imo and makes the game unplayable to me.

Though on op stuff, I read there is even a lot more op stuff that i didn't find out, (mostly because I didn't need too, I could already clear house with my found tactics).

 

[Roguey]

Fleeing is for degenerate noobs who can't learn to play.

 

[Waterd]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. But in case you aren't, it makes no sense to add a feature that needs to be "careful" used to not make the game too easy. Why is there? Games that intend the players to become game designer, show lazy game designers.

 

[Waterd]

Btw, if htere is a mod that removes all traps and Somehow solves the micromanagment of items/scouting problem, I would be interested in trying again.

 

[Jimmious]

Saving and loading is also overpowered, you can repeat until you win game. FFS

 

[Waterd]

Reloading is not a game rule, is a software rule, where you can save the gamestate. So the comparision is bad.
Saving and reloading is indeed comparable to hacking the code or just exploiting a bug or software flaw.
Is similar to use the pause button in an RTS and tetris-like game or a fighting game to think about your next move.
the purpose of the function of the software, is to be a quality of life improvement.
Saving and loading allows to you stop playing the game at X point in time, so you can continue playing tomorrow or next week, a neccesary feature for a quality of life improvement that allow humans to enjoy games over long periods of times.

The fact that saving and loading can be exploited to circumvent the game rules, is a side point, because it's clear deliberate action if you do it so and is clear is not a GAME RULE.

That is like saying "modding the game is op".
You can't compare software features to game rules features. IS not part of the game rules to "save reload", it would be like saying that Chessmaster game, save and reload is part of the rules, no it's not, Chessmaster uses the rules of chess and has a saving and loading feature to ease the life users, taking advantage of the electronic aspect of it.

Sure there is people that will hack, mod, or save reload to break the rules of the game, but that is a side point.
Fleeing is PART of the rules of the game.

 

[Waterd]

But if I would agree with you and Save and reload is PART of the game rules, then yes, I would agree with you that it would make the game broken.

 

[Jimmious]

My point is that if you want to exploit features of the game to make it easier for you, it's your fucking problem bro. Noone stops you from fleeing and noone stops you to save-scumming all the time if you want to do that. Don't blame the game that has mechanics that are potentially exploitable or we will end up with

*Saving and loading can be used normally as you describe OR it can be exploited so that you get the optimal results. That will make the game easier in the end. If you don't want that then just don't do it.

 

[Waterd]

Ok, one thing is exploiting features of the software of the game and another completely different is exploiting RULES of the game. It's not the same in CHESS taking advantage of the power of the queen to maximize my chance of winning, that taking advantage of the fact my opponent was distracted to remove his queen from the table with my hand. That is a huge difference.
Fleeing is PART OF THE GAME RULES.

Saving and scumming is not a GAME RULE MECHANIC, is a property of the software, why removing saving game state you are not changing a GAME RULE, you are changing the software.
Sure Nobody stops me from hacking hte game and give my characters MAx stats. But here is the problem.
A game, is defined by it's rules, and if I hack the system to change the rule of the game, I'm playing a game different than the game that was designed.

I want to play the DESIGNED game.
I can't just arbitrarly decide what is part of the designed game rules and which is not. Sure stunning enemies makes the game easier, should i not stun enemies?, Charming enemies makes the game easier should i not charm enemies?.
It's the Designers job to create an experience for the one playing the game that is fun. How do i know what is that experience? what is what im supposed to experience? Is fleeing part of the experience? is stunning enemies part of the experience? You may answer yes, SOMETIMES it is. Ok how often? at what point is stunning part of the experinece and at what point im exploiting the game? The game should have indicators on when that is.

If you say a game like magic the gathering for example, having 3 lighting bolts in your deck is good, having 4 lighting bolts is better, having 5 lighting bolts is even better, but the game rules state that having 5 lightining bolts is illegal, so you don't use 5 lighting bolts unless you want to go beyond the rules of the game. But as long as you have 4 lightining bolts is fair game.

If you play Duelyst ( a game ive been playing a lot recently) you realize how powerfull Replacing cards. But the system limits you to JUST one REPLACE PER TURN. So you have to manage that resource. If you could hack it to have 2 replaces per turn, then you are breaking the game, the game state clearly the experience is designed for one replace per turn.

Now compare that to fleeing, is that an option? Yes it is, it's part of the clearly designed game rules. Fleeing once is good, 2 is better, 3 even better, and so on and so forth, there is no limit. The game doesn't determine or signal how much you should flee, how the experience was designed, was designed for 1 flee per 5 minutes? 1 flee per batttle? 1 flee per 10 battles? as far as i know, given the rules of the game, fleeing is infinite, so I have to guess the game is designed for infinite fleeing in mind. And if it wasn't why it's not specified?
Why in MTG is clearly established what the design is (no more than 4 lighting bolts) but here, it's not specififed? Should I specify myself? Should i become a game designer now? I'm not a game designer, it shouldn't be my job to design the experience and the limitations of my actions, because I have no basis for it. What is the max amount of fleeing per battle that creates the best experience? I don't know, I dont know how to know, and I shouldn't have to know, I'm not a game designer, i'm the player. As a player I should use the tools given in the game to achieve my goals, and having fun in the process, not trying to design the game, that is the job of the game designer.

 

[Waterd]

ANd if you want to compare to SAVE and LOAD, I assume as it's original intended to be a feature to improve quality of life, as it's A pause button in a game, is because people have more things to do than playing games, yes I assume the moment you Only reload to "solve" a mistake you did through playing, you are cheating the game rules.
You can SAve and reload in AGe of mythology games, but if after you lost a battle you quit and reload a previous state, no opponent is gonna say "oh, the powerfull and classic save and reload, good move jhonny!", no , you are going to be accused of cheating.

 

[Efe]

another angle

some fights are outright unfair without previous knowledge of teh game, making ironman runs impossible without a flee function or a walkthrough. I don't know what's fun of "oh you want to do this? ok, you are dead, game over"