DOOM + DOOM II Rerelease by Nightdive Studios

[Valestein]

Encoutered a bug in the Evilution secret map "Pharoah" where 50 of the enemies don't spawn in toward the end. I'm not sure if that was in the OG version or what.

I do know that the OG version had an issue where the yellow key was flagged as "multiplayer only", which only utterly baffles me, as despite how bad Master Levels is, not even they fucked up like that.

Yeah, that was in the original release. Wait, are you playing the wad that came with the QuakeCon'24 release?! I thought that was one of the things that was fixed after the release of Final Doom.

Here's a fix for it:

https://classicdoom.com/pctnt31p.htm

Yeah, the yellow key thing is not an issue in this release, was just mentioning how it used to be.

 

[Valestein]

Finished Evilution, the last map pissed me off with how you have to be on a certain spot on the steps to hit the Icon of Sin. Anyhow, will see about playing through Plutonia next and see if i can actually play through the entire thing for the first time ever (only played through the initial couple of levels previously).

 

[Eirinjas]

 

[Valestein]

I'm up to map 15 in Plutonia, which is the furthest I've ever gotten to it, and it's quite doable on UV difficulty. I'll soon be doing its signature map "get 2 it".

 

[Valestein]

Up to map 28 of Plutonia and i gotta say it's a pretty enjoyable wad, more than i thought it would be. There is however one caveat, that being the questionable design choice of chaingunners being revived endlessly by archviles within walls. Fortunately, this is only in three spots, but still..

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'm up to map 15 in Plutonia, which is the furthest I've ever gotten to it, and it's quite doable on UV difficulty.

One thing I've noticed recently is that there's a fairly big overlap between OG Doom current year and bullethell shooters. It seems like people have grown to hate hitscanners over the years and prefer the monsters that fire projectiles. As such, the arenas tend to fill up with these projectiles and the players are forced to weave and dodge through them while maintaining their aim on the target or fire when their current dodge lines up with a target. I've noticed this watching various wad reviewers or showcases of modern wads. There weren't things like this back when Doom came out because arenas filled with projectiles would choke a 486DX2/66, but current year, even a low powered PC can handle five dozen projectiles flying all over the place. I've seen people with orbits of Revenant missiles "orbiting" them while they're fighting a score or two of Revenants. It's pretty crazy to watch.

There is however one caveat, that being the questionable design choice of chaingunners being revived endlessly by archviles within walls. Fortunately, this is only in three spots, but still..

This was a fairly new thing when Plutonia was being developed. People discovered they could make "turrets" out of chaingunners up on stands with archviles in the center of those stands tucked away. Archviles just have to be next to something on the X-Y plane to rez, and Z didn't matter. Luckily, most of those archviles are accessible because Doom players have always tried for 100% kills thanks to the end of wads having that score. Thankfully, the hatred of hitscanners moved people away from doing this with chaingunners.

 

[Outlander]

Spoiler: it's an Action RPG

 

[Valestein]

Finished Plutonia, and I'd say it has the best Icon of Sin map out of the three official ones. The penultimate map was pretty dope too, it's what "downtown" in Doom 2 should've been.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Is Plutonia really maligned just because it's hard? Were Doom players really always such scrubs?

Making Doom hard is always a challenge because it's not as simple as just throwing hordes of enemies on the screen, since they'll just fight each other. What little i remember of Plutonia is that they tried to work around that kind of cheese.

The other thing is remember is the the maps looked a little drab. Reminded me of the fourth episode in Quake, which was also the hardest but visually it didn't look as good as the first three.

 

[ghardy]

What little i remember of Plutonia is that they tried to work around that kind of cheese.

Which reminds me to ask: Which Plutonia inspired megawads are worthwhile? I see Plutonia 2, Plutonia Revisited, etc.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Is Plutonia really maligned just because it's hard? Were Doom players really always such scrubs?

Plutonia was considered hard when it came out. And it still is to me. But it seems like over the years, Doom players have gotten really good so now Plutonia is considered "average" difficulty.

Making Doom hard is always a challenge because it's not as simple as just throwing hordes of enemies on the screen, since they'll just fight each other.

This is why a lot of maps tend to have the monsters teleport in or have monster closets that pop open. The monsters will only fight if there's friendly fire, so you just have to keep them somewhere that they don't have anything to shoot at until you're ready for the player to encounter them. You can also make them deaf, but that only works when the player is suddenly exposed to their line of sight. There are some decent "slaughter maps" that toss huge numbers of monsters at the player all at once, and generally the tactics for that are to get them fighting.

The other thing is remember is the the maps looked a little drab. Reminded me of the fourth episode in Quake, which was also the hardest but visually it didn't look as good as the first three.

They're very brown and green. I've always thought Plutonia was the better looking of the two, mainly because it seemed to have more of a unified theme. What's a shame is that Perdition's Gate didn't make it in to Final Doom. Apparently it was going to be in Final Doom, but he didn't get it finished in time. So, the author sold it to Wizard Works and it was put in one of those D!ZONE compilations. It's been released for free, and it's very good for it's time.

Here's a link to the wad:

https://www.moddb.com/games/doom-ii/addons/perditions-gate

Which reminds me to ask: Which Plutonia inspired megawads are worthwhile? I see Plutonia 2, Plutonia Revisited, etc.

Plutonia 2 and Plutonia Revisited Community Projects 1 & 2. Plutonia 3 is done by someone else, and apparently is horrible. Plutonia 4 and 7 are joke wads made to make fun of Plutonia 3.

 

[pOcHa]

played through heartland - and i can see now where leagcy of rust got their inspiration...

those were my first slaughter maps, but not a fan - fun for a while, but spawning hordes behind your back in a cramped corridor gets tiresome real quick

manageable with monster infighting, but you just loose the patience for it and go in guns blazing, then backtrack the whole map for leftover ammo

 

[Valestein]

I'm going to replay Back to Saturn X 1, both as a trip down memory lane(only played it once) and so i can have a fresher frame of reference for when I play the sequel.

There's apparently a BTSX3 in development btw.

 

[Valestein]

There's one curious thing about BTSX1, and that is enemies can drop from the ledges, was that always a thing in this? It sure wasn't in any of the official wads in this Doom + Doom II release.

 

[Valestein]

Holy fuck, the secret map of BTSX2 has 1203(!!!) enemies! It's even higher once you take into account arch-vile revives.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Glad they put it in my GOG library for free.

 

[Infinitron]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2280/view/500563239247021416

DOOM + DOOM II Update 2 Release Notes
Update 2 is live!

Edit: For Steam Deck users a hotfix has been applied, so make sure you have the latest version installed before launching and thank you for the quick feedback and providing crashlogs!

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Update 2 adds Multiplayer Mod support for DOOM + DOOM II and game improvements/fixes!

Improvements​

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Multiplayer Mods​

• Hosts need to activate the mod before entering the multiplayer menu
• Players will need to subscribe to the same mod before joining a match
• We recommend using room codes to join modified matches
• Mods must be authored with Vanilla DOOM, DeHackEd, MBF21 or BOOM to be compatible

General​

• Resolved an issue in which some red doors did not display as red on the automap
• Fixed multiple crashes reported by the community when loading game saves
• Improved text line wrapping legibility for mod descriptions in Asian languages
• Removed map prefix from intermission screen to be consistent with original game behavior

Multiplayer​

• Added spectator mode when players are dead and waiting to respawn in co-op mission play (it can also be initiated manually from the scoreboard button)
• Fixed an issue in which disabling the crosshair would also turn off player name and co-op respawn text display
• There are now more than 4 player colors available in game and on scoreboards
• Resolved an issue in which players would lose weapons when respawning in co-op using modern rules
• Fixed an issue in which the cross-platform friends menu could not be properly backed out of when no friends were available
• Further optimized multiplayer networking code
• Addressed crosshair centering issue in certain splitscreen configurations
• Intermission animations now run at the correct speed in splitscreen mode

Modsl​

• The mod downloader can now process more than the first 100 subscribed mods

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For Mod Creators on PC​

• Mod screenshots with spaces and other non-alphanumeric characters in their file names will now upload correctly in most cases

Mod Compatibility Updates​

• MBF21 instant kill sectors were incorrectly killing non-enemy actors
• MBF21 instant kill sectors will fire immediately when a monster enters them, instead of waiting
• BOOM and MBF21 effects that kill monsters will deal 1 million damage instead of 10000 damage in order to fix mods that used monsters with high HP values to create an invulnerable enemy
• BOOM generic floor actions were not selecting the right neighbor when finding which sector ceiling or floor height they needed to move to
• Players can hurt and shoot projectiles at their own voodoo dolls (aka player model / clone), to be consistent with the original game
• ENTERPIC in UMAPINFO is correctly shown for the map you are entering instead of the map you just left
• DeHackEd strings for BOOM keys can now be replaced through DEH patches
• BOOM line action 242 (Deep water) will now transfer ceiling and floor lighting
• Now avoids crashing for invalid sized demos when playing the demoloop
• Maps using DMAPINFO will print the map name on automap, level select, and savegames
• Changing DeHackEd ammo type will now actually change the ammo type
• Fixed Berzerk Factor not calculating correctly in the A_WeaponMeleeAttack MBF21 codepointer
• Fixed BTSX Episode 1 and Episode 2 demo playback not rendering fullscreen
• Mods that override DOOM (1993) Episodes 1-3 will use the correct intermission screen
• MBF21 A_Lower codepoint now checks for an invalid weapon before changing weapons if out of ammo

 

[SilentMRG]

DOOM Retro now has ID24 support, meaning all the screens and effects from Legacy of Rust are available. Example: "Animated skies defined using the ID24-compatible SKYDEFS lump are now fully supported." - v5.6.1.

 

[NecroLord]

DOOM Retro now has ID24 support, meaning all the screens and effects from Legacy of Rust are available. Example: "Animated skies defined using the ID24-compatible SKYDEFS lump are now fully supported." - v5.6.1.

That's why I always recommend Doom Retro over GZ Doom.
It's just better overall (to me, at least).
Also works flawlessly.

 

[SilentMRG]

I've always seen GZ as a path for crazy mods, I mean, those that completely change everything in the game. DR is on the side of the vanilla experience with small touches that refine the gameplay without losing the essence of what DOOM really is. And because it receives constant updates that really add good stuff, it's also my top choice alongside the Eternity Engine.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

They don't call it DOOM for nothing. The number of engines, devices it can be run on, mods, and assets spiral down to an eternity of playing it. While diablo can do that to a lesser degree, DOOM strips you of your soul until you are a doom zombie at the screen playing; FOREVER!



....God I miss Doom...

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Spoiler: it's an Action RPG

Hmmm.... is there a gauntlet mod? Probably use heretic or some amalgamation thereof.

 

[ghardy]

And because it receives constant updates that really add good stuff, it's also my top choice alongside the Eternity Engine.

Eternity has bubbled up to my primary spot when I wish to play DooM. Followed by Woof! and Crispy (which I've used for Heretic and Hexen as well). I have GZDoom on standby for things which require it.

Others I've tried but found not to my liking are:

• EDGE-Classic
• K8Vavoom
• Doomsday

I'm not into the whole demo thing, otherwise I'd be swearing by DSDA-Doom.

 

[911 Jumper]

666 US DOLLARS

 

[SilentMRG]

And because it receives constant updates that really add good stuff, it's also my top choice alongside the Eternity Engine.

Eternity has bubbled up to my primary spot when I wish to play DooM. Followed by Woof! and Crispy (which I've used for Heretic and Hexen as well). I have GZDoom on standby for things which require it.

Others I've tried but found not to my liking are:

• EDGE-Classic
• K8Vavoom
• Doomsday

I'm not into the whole demo thing, otherwise I'd be swearing by DSDA-Doom.

About engines... I've read some good things about PrBoom+, but I've never tested it. Woof! has been on my radar for a while, unfortunately, I spend the time I have left playing games, and configuring source ports gives me the creeps, so I prefer DOOM Retro, Chocolate and Crispy, because the configurations are minimal. These engines:

- EDGE-Classic
- K8Vavoom
- Doomsday

I've never read anything about them, I didn't even know they existed, hehe. I'll put them on my list to check them out in the near future.

Have you checked out MAYhem 2023? It's an exclusive megawad for Eternity. By the way, EE has few exclusive pwads/megawads, fortunately, all of them are of quality; at least from what I could see.