DOOM Eternal - the sequel to the 2016 reboot - now with The Ancient Gods DLC

[JDR13]

Fix nuDoom:
1) Let enemies attack while awesome buttan takedown is performed.
2) Make enemy drops independent from how they're killed and less than is required to kill them.
If you are super low on health, or ammo enemy drops could be increased just enough to barely keep you going, if you stop being careless.
Make enemy pickup from GKs just be added to your resources instead of throwing rainbow pinata in your face, looks awful.

They could even leave the games, as they are for normies, just make higher difficulties work differently.

Also, get rid of the rune challenges. Imo, they're too gamey and immersion breaking. Keep the rune system, but hide the runes throughout the levels and have them well guarded.

 

[Durandal]

Fix nuDoom:
1) Let enemies attack while awesome buttan takedown is performed.
2) Make enemy drops independent from how they're killed and less than is required to kill them.
If you are super low on health, or ammo enemy drops could be increased just enough to barely keep you going, if you stop being careless.
Make enemy pickup from GKs just be added to your resources instead of throwing rainbow pinata in your face, looks awful.

They could even leave the games, as they are for normies, just make higher difficulties work differently.

Also, get rid of the rune challenges. Imo, they're too gamey and immersion breaking. Keep the rune system, but hide the runes throughout the levels and have them well guarded.

Eternal already does that by the looks of it. Now each time you find a rune station you can just pick one of nine runes you want, meaning you can get the mid-air control rune starting from level 2 instead of having to wait until halfway into the game.

 

[DalekFlay]

If they had you get attacked while doing a glory kill then every reviewer under the sun would have pointed that out as a major flaw and said it made them pointless. Not saying I agree with that, but at some point you have to accept that flaws are relative and they have to design these games for more than the Codex crowd.

 

[passerby]

They could even leave the games, as they are for normies, just make higher difficulties work differently.

 

[DalekFlay]

Designing game mechanics differently for separate difficulty modes is work developers stopped doing literally decades ago.

Also I don't think I agree anyway, and wouldn't have wanted that on hard. There's no point designing a system like glory kills... the purpose of which is to refuel you in battle... and then make it prohibitive to do in battle, because you get hurt as much as you heal if not more. Makes zero sense. Either roll with the system or cut it out. The real issue with it is it takes away player control. It should have been a headshot bonus or something, but console analog sticks lol. That's the real issue, but Doom is a fuck lot better than stuff from 10 years before in that regard.

 

[JDR13]

Fix nuDoom:
1) Let enemies attack while awesome buttan takedown is performed.
2) Make enemy drops independent from how they're killed and less than is required to kill them.
If you are super low on health, or ammo enemy drops could be increased just enough to barely keep you going, if you stop being careless.
Make enemy pickup from GKs just be added to your resources instead of throwing rainbow pinata in your face, looks awful.

They could even leave the games, as they are for normies, just make higher difficulties work differently.

Also, get rid of the rune challenges. Imo, they're too gamey and immersion breaking. Keep the rune system, but hide the runes throughout the levels and have them well guarded.

Eternal already does that by the looks of it. Now each time you find a rune station you can just pick one of nine runes you want, meaning you can get the mid-air control rune starting from level 2 instead of having to wait until halfway into the game.

So, no more "Kill 30 imps in 90 seconds with the shotgun" type minigames? I hope that's the case.

 

[Wilian]

I gotta be honest and say that people speaking out against them mostly come across as having never actually played the game

GKs in DOOM are like pineapple on pizza.

So uh-.. Mandatory?

 

[Durandal]

Designing game mechanics differently for separate difficulty modes is work developers stopped doing literally decades ago.

Also I don't think I agree anyway, and wouldn't have wanted that on hard. There's no point designing a system like glory kills... the purpose of which is to refuel you in battle... and then make it prohibitive to do in battle, because you get hurt as much as you heal if not more. Makes zero sense. Either roll with the system or cut it out. The real issue with it is it takes away player control. It should have been a headshot bonus or something, but console analog sticks lol. That's the real issue, but Doom is a fuck lot better than stuff from 10 years before in that regard.

The idea is you gain health in exchange for giving away your control and situational awareness. If you want your free health, you have to earn it. Taking away player control isn't inherently bad and in fact happens all the time in games, like when you switched weapons or reloaded the super shotgun in the original Doom games, meaning you can't just cycle through all of your weapons in two seconds to do ridiculous amounts of damage. Many hack 'n slash games have a recovery period after each attack you can't cancel out of, so you actually have to think about when to use it instead of being able to spam it and then avoid everything through pure reflex.

 

[passerby]

When I thought about it a bit more, if it didn't give you any additional resources over normal kill, I'd be fine with enemies waiting untill you finish, a bit awkward, but it's not an immersive sim exactly and animations are cool for a while, so not a real problem.

Small reward ( tiny bit of ammo saved ), small cost, so you would do GKs for fun occassionally and ignore them once you've got bored of them.

 

[OctavianRomulus]

To those who hate glory kills. Just think that Blood had a vaguely similar health system. Medkits were kind of rare so enemies dropping health was the most reliable way to get to 100.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize this glory kill system would work great in a Blood game, it might even be more fitting.

 

[passerby]

The issue is not enemies giving health in itself, but enemies giving more resources when killed with GK, so the optimal, or even mandatory occasionally way to play, is to perform them as much as possible, instead of just shooting.

 

[DalekFlay]

The issue is not enemies giving health in itself, but enemies giving more resources when killed with GK, so the optimal, or even mandatory occasionally way to play, is to perform them as much as possible, instead of just shooting.

They were far from mandatory on my hard mode playthrough; in fact I rarely did them. Maybe on ultra they're needed more, but when I did a GK it was because I either really needed health or ammo, or I was at the very end of a fight and wanted to replenish. Note that in both these situations getting shot at the same time would be nonsensical in the context of what is trying to be achieved.

I go back to the idea that the only actual problem people have with GKs is losing control for a relatively length period. The way to solve this would be to have the function of GKs performed by real-time actions like headshots, melee finishes or overkllls well past remaining enemy HP. I think the reason they instead went with a sort of QTE is because 1) they wanted it to "look cool," and b) analog sticks make talent-based fast movement kills harder. Neither of these concerns would be fixed with simple tweaks or vulnerability to enemy attacks. That's why I think it's sadly an "is what it is" mechanic those who hate it should just try and do as little as possible.

 

[passerby]

As I've mentioned, I've realised that glory kills themselves don't bother me, it's just aesthetics, but what I dislike is the very idea of guaranteed easy replenishment whenever needed.

In classic shooters it made for a very tense downtime exploration, when you barely survived encounter and was hoping to find some pickups before you will get jumped again.
Or for even more tense combat encounters, when you had to enter them very low on resources due to not being effective enough earlier and was forced to play them exceptionally well, while trying to replenish mid fight with limited pickups defended by enemies.

 

[OctavianRomulus]

As I've mentioned, I've realised that glory kills themselves don't bother me, it's just aesthetics, but what I dislike is the very idea of guaranteed easy replenishment whenever needed.

In classic shooters it made for a very tense downtime exploration, when you barely survived encounter and was hoping to find some pickups before you will get jumped again.
Or for even more tense combat encounters, when you had to enter them very low on resources due to not being effective enough earlier and was forced to play them exceptionally well, while trying to replenish mid fight with limited pickups defended by enemies.

Well you do find that in Ultra Nighmare. During the first half, just GKs won't cut it. You gotta know where each pickup is or you die.

 

[Jezal_k23]

guaranteed easy replenishment whenever needed.

I've said this before but I feel like people just ignore it when it suits them. There is no easy replenishment from glory kills on higher difficulties. The health recovery is meager at best, and I believe it never exceeds 30HP on Nightmare.

 

[DalekFlay]

As I've mentioned, I've realised that glory kills themselves don't bother me, it's just aesthetics, but what I dislike is the very idea of guaranteed easy replenishment whenever needed.

In classic shooters it made for a very tense downtime exploration, when you barely survived encounter and was hoping to find some pickups before you will get jumped again.
Or for even more tense combat encounters, when you had to enter them very low on resources due to not being effective enough earlier and was forced to play them exceptionally well, while trying to replenish mid fight with limited pickups defended by enemies.

I just don't think the game is designed for this though, and you can't make it be. It has checkpoints instead of quicksaves, and is focused on you thrashing through enemies non-stop until you get to next checkpoint as a kind of consistent flow. The designers even say this pretty bluntly themselves. Not saying your game wouldn't be a better one, but it would take a lot of redesign, not just a tweak to GKs.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

This game is going to be even shittier than the original nudoom (hard to imagine, I know):

 

[Jezal_k23]

Cyberdemon survived a direct BFG hit @ 10:51, and then kept being a pain in the ass all through the fight. I can say I'm pleased about that. I was worried they'd have turned into too much of a normal enemy since some recent footage from IGN showed 2 cyberdemons in the same fight. Looks like they are genuinely pretty hard.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Cyberdemon survived a direct BFG hit @ 10:51, and then kept being a pain in the ass all through the fight. I can say I'm pleased about that. I was worried they'd have turned into too much of a normal enemy since some recent footage from IGN showed 2 cyberdemons in the same fight. Looks like they are genuinely pretty hard.

I wouldn't hold my breath concerning the game's difficulty if Gman is having trouble with it; he's notoriously bad at games.

 

[Durandal]

This game is going to be even shittier than the original nudoom (hard to imagine, I know):

It's showing us that you can now rely on flamethrower/ice bomb/grappling hook to regain armor/health instead of only Glory Kills. Given the amount of hate Glory Kills got in this thread, this should be a cause for celebration. That, and there being more enemies on screen at any given time. But post some stuff by someone who can show off the game properly instead:


I do like what I'm seeing. The Cyberdemon fills the role of ranged area-of-denial in the bestiary which nuDoom sorely lacked, and should now prompt you to think about positioning more in order to break line of sight with him, given how tanky he is and how much commitment the Cyberdemon requires to take down. Not even a BFG shot killed him, whereas the BFG in nuDoom instakilled everything that wasn't a boss (though it did seem to stun the Archvile for a good while, which sucks).
The new Ballista does seem a lot more balanced than its nuDoom counterpart, where its Siege Mode equivalent doesn't deal broken amounts of oneshotting-Cacodemons damage, but just fires a wide wave of medium damage that can instagib a group of weaker enemies at once.

On the other hand I am worried about all these new safety nets, given how YouTubers can still survive on Nightmare. Glory Kills seem to be more generous overall, and with the right upgrades you can freeze enemies, set them on fire, and then blood punch them to get like 120 health/armor back. The enemies are more aggressive and numerous this time around, so we'll see.
The Crucible is also shown to be an equipment-type item like the Chainsaw, and is only shown Glory Killing a Cyberdemon. I really REALLY hope the Crucible isn't just another instakill weapon like the Chainsaw and BFG already are for the most part.

 

[Jenkem]

glory kills get you health
flamethrower gets you armor
chainsaw gets you ammo

 

[Jezal_k23]

glory kills get you health
flamethrower gets you armor
chainsaw gets you ammo

Additionally ice gets you health too.

On the other hand I am worried about all these new safety nets, given how YouTubers can still survive on Nightmare.

Yes. I can't say I disagree about streamers being able to get by on nightmare. I would have hoped to see a string of deaths on nightmare. On the other hand, they probably do practice these fights several times before pulling off their best take and this is the one they upload and we get to see.

Not even a BFG shot killed him, whereas the BFG in nuDoom instakilled everything that wasn't a boss (though it did seem to stun the Archvile for a good while, which sucks).

An arch-vile is a higher ranking demon, but they still shouldn't be able to take a BFG shot to the face and shrug it off I think. But this is definitely appropriate for the Cyberdemon. As long as the devs are conservative with BFG ammo, I think this can work.

 

[Haba]

The Glory Kills basically turn Doom into RTWP game.

 

[sullynathan]

 

[sullynathan]

There will be cheat codes