DOOM Eternal - the sequel to the 2016 reboot - now with The Ancient Gods DLC

[Caim]

Have the difference be that the HAR is best against precision elimination of individual targets, whether it's a burst of fire at short range, a precision bolt to deal damage at long range or a series of micromissiles stuck to a single target. The chaingun by comparison works by magdumping your way through a horde of trash you want to get rid of right this instance, or a bulky lad you want to stunlock to death but you run the risk of getting flanked by smaller enemies.

I mean, they're both intended to work like that, but in the DLC I only whipped out the Chaingun when I needed to take down a Baron of Hell or something like that. The rest of the time I used a mix of the HAR and the Super Shotgun.

 

[Ash]

A better chaingun functionally could easily make the HAR redundant though (aside from DLC - the only time the precision shot is strictly needed). why bother with fancy precision shots when you can absolutely shred with a beastly chaingun? It's rare to ever actually need true precision in this game (combat is constantly close to medium range). Maybe if they separated their ammo pools.

If they wanted to make this DLC REALLY hard, they'd slow the regen rate of the chainsaw by 30% or more. Then you'd have to use (and master) each of the ammo types evenly before a refill, ammo (and fuel) in the environment would be more relevant, and the ole flame belch + chainsaw panic button to refill health, ammo and armor in one go would be less spammable. That would fulfill DE's combat chess potential.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I've had more accidental falls when dodging enemies in Eternal than during platforming bits. If they were all instant deaths it would pretty damn annoying.

Never played Dark Souls then?

With that said, without meaningful level design (besides arena fights ye ye Ash calm yer shit) that stuff is just annoying, i can agree. The tension Dark Souls creates with ledges you can fall off from only works if you are immersed into the level, and you never are in nuDoom.

And for those who keep asking or expecting them to change any time soon, i think it's obvious that shit is intentional. They don't want exploration in their game (besides the bare minimum for secrets), they want you to feel like you are constantly moving and engaged in the mayhem. The idea of just stopping in your tracks to let the environment sink into your brain is something they are avoiding on purpose. In Doom 2016, where level design is closer to traditional shooters than Doom Eternal is, they managed to discourage level back tracking by locking you out after certain check points (annoying if you wanted to discover secrets in one go). They obviously don't want you to play the game like that. It's all by design.

 

[Multidirectional]

I've had more accidental falls when dodging enemies in Eternal than during platforming bits. If they were all instant deaths it would pretty damn annoying.

Never played Dark Souls then?

That was never a problem in Dark Souls. I think you should play Sekiro just so you would stop comparing Eternal to Dark Souls at this point, because it's really closer to Sekiro than DS. Hell, they even made falls non fatal in Sekiro, which I suspect might have been a influence on this decision in Eternal. That and bonus lives system.

 

[Ash]

Dark Souls has very few platforming challenges by comparison (unfortunately). Does have quite few places to fall, but Doom Eternal the potential to fall is near-constant.
They could make it like Dark Souls. But then it just makes it jumping "puzzles" again rather than about pace, precision on the fly and reflexes. If the consequences for death are so high, you're either going to play it safe or spam that save/load (if any given game allows it). I think they should stick with what they have and instead focus on making the platforming obstacles ithemselves tougher. (they do in the DLC, but it's kinda short-lived and soon goes back to base game level of intensity in that regard. There's also slightly less platforming overall. Quite the combat fest).

 

[Lyric Suite]

They did?

 

[Caim]

If they wanted to make this DLC REALLY hard, they'd slow the regen rate of the chainsaw by 30% or more. Then you'd have to use (and master) each of the ammo types evenly before a refill, ammo (and fuel) in the environment would be more relevant, and the ole flame belch + chainsaw panic button to refill health, ammo and armor in one go would be less spammable. That would fulfill DE's combat chess potential.

The chainsaw refill should've been slowed down, but it should also have refilled to the full three charges to compensate. Allow you to get into a fight at full charge, but unless the fight's really long you're going to NEED those charges.

 

[Ash]

Eh, two at most, but I disagree. One is perfect, especially if the regen rate were nerfed. Game already gives you too much easy ammo.

They did?

Yeah OK not really in hindsight. I was...under the influence of a (legal) substance that makes gameplay more intense and bumps up the difficulty an extra point last night. Normally I'm clean. I fell at the crane + monkey bars + vent shot obstacle course like five times and had to return to checkpoint lol. In reality it is as challenging as base game end game content -- moderate.

 

[Caim]

Speaking of, in the first level of the DLC there was that one jumping puzzle after the vent-powered long jump that took me way too long to figure out. I settled on jumping to one of the monkey bars at a nigh impossible angle, double air dashed to the climbing wall, then turned around and jumped across the bars to the place you needed to go. Was there something I obviously missed, or was that the intended way?

 

[Ash]

Nope that was how it was meant to be done, aside maybe from the impossible angle. Your first jump to the bar should be from underneath the wrecked walkway (the destination ledge) if I recall. It's not much of an angle that I remember.

 

[OctavianRomulus]

I get why they implemented the Chainsaw mechanic but even after all this time it still feels a bit weird to me. They should have put respawning pickups in the arenas like in Quake 3 with maybe the Chainsaw being a much rarer ammo refill and maybe even a rune that gives a speed boost when you pick something up.

 

[Jezal_k23]

The low ammo counts drive me crazy. It feels like I spend 15% of time in the arenas watching the chainsaw animations.

 

[JDR13]

So the expansion is even more platform-happy than the base game? I was hoping that wouldn't be the case.

 

[Ol' Willy]

It doesn't matter how good nuDooms are, there is one simple, but fatal flaw that will never allow them to stand in the line with ol' good Dooms and Quakes - lack of modding support. Original Id titles were always made with modding in mind, tool were given to public and source code was released some time after.

No such thing for nuDooms. Doom 2016 had some rudimentary level editor - Doom Eternal doesn't have even this. Four years have passed and we see no significant mods or mappacks for Doom 2016. And knowing Shittesda/Microsoft policies, modders can forget about ever seeing the source code of these games.

 

[sullynathan]

The platforming in this game is relatively fun though so I don't mind it.

 

[Jezal_k23]

It is well made, but it's such a huge missed opportunity - I'm just opposed to its use as a way to keep me distracted until the next arena, instead of using it as a means of truly deepening or enhancing the level design and exploration.

But I think it's also likely true that id simply doesn't want exploration in Doom anymore...

 

[Lyric Suite]

The annoying part with that is that the current team probably could pull off traditional level design if they had a mind to do it, but they won't because their design principle is non-stop rip and tearing.

 

[UserNamer]

I think doom eternal is a challenging enough game in its core gameplay that the jumping puzzles shouldn't have health penalties. Just restarting at the beginning of the jumping puzzle is enough

 

[Durandal]

I get why they implemented the Chainsaw mechanic but even after all this time it still feels a bit weird to me. They should have put respawning pickups in the arenas like in Quake 3 with maybe the Chainsaw being a much rarer ammo refill and maybe even a rune that gives a speed boost when you pick something up.

Respawning zombies are your respawning pickups.

 

[Caim]

I get why they implemented the Chainsaw mechanic but even after all this time it still feels a bit weird to me. They should have put respawning pickups in the arenas like in Quake 3 with maybe the Chainsaw being a much rarer ammo refill and maybe even a rune that gives a speed boost when you pick something up.

Respawning zombies are your respawning pickups.

Can't you buy an upgrade that has exploding barrels drop some stuff, and another where the barrels respawn?

 

[OctavianRomulus]

I get why they implemented the Chainsaw mechanic but even after all this time it still feels a bit weird to me. They should have put respawning pickups in the arenas like in Quake 3 with maybe the Chainsaw being a much rarer ammo refill and maybe even a rune that gives a speed boost when you pick something up.

Respawning zombies are your respawning pickups.

It's not quite the same thing. With respawning pickups. you would have to find where they are, memorize their location and make sure you can actually get there. All the of these situations could generate interesting combat scenarios. I like the chainsaw mechanic. I just think you should be less reliant on it.

Also, I never liked how in all Doom games the lowest zombies are basically useless. Each enemy should pose a threat. They are basically like like the Pistol. The Shotgunner in OG Doom and the Doom 2016 Imps are probably the best low-tier enemies in any shooter of this sort.

 

[UserNamer]

I think the gameplay in eternal is well designed, the pinata mechanics are stupid on paper but it still is an engaging game and they work without removing the challenge. You need to actually play to win, with not much room to relax in the middle of the fight. The possessed enemies also really had a lot of additional pressure. In the end it is not a popamole - well it is but you play as the heavily armed mole

Level design is non existent as discussed but at least the environments are (mostly) interesting and the combat is well designed, especially on the dlc that really ups the challenge. From

Maybe the next dlc will focus on level design more? Not holding my breath of course.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The fucking skybox has better level design than the game lmao

 

[Caim]

At first I thought that my man was launched into a Serious Sam level, but then it started to look like the big-ass bridge from Shadow of the Colossus, with the shrine on the left and the entrance on the right.

 

[Ash]

Good level design != how open it is and no other qualifiers apply.

Doom Eternal's somewhat linear levels are way better than something like GTAV's massive open barren nothingness. Or for something more similar mechanically, better than Serious Sam 1's endless bland rooms and open environments.