DOOM Eternal - the sequel to the 2016 reboot - now with The Ancient Gods DLC

[Valestein]

You don't strickly need the microwave mod for the Spirits..... if you kill everything it could possess.

 

[UserNamer]

As said previously I like the game but some thoughts:

- I really don't think a game like this should have environmental or enemy threats that slow you down. Not a big complaint just a thought.
-there should be no hp penalty at all if you fail a jumping puzzle, and the game should not take an extra life if anyway it is sending you back to the checkpoint. If you fail a jumping puzzle you just should just start again from the checkpoint, instead of starting from the checkpoint with less health, and when you die you restart from the checkpoint anyway. I just think it's stupid the way it is designed.
-there should be a way to disable or tone down the effects when you are low on health.




Another thing, previously I said the level design is non existent. Well, that is unfair. Of course the levels are super linear but in terms of progression, looks, gameplay balance, I like them very much. When I say level design is non existent it feels too unfair because obviously a lot of care was spent in designing them and balancing them. And they never feel too "flat" at least.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Good level design != how open it is and no other qualifiers apply.

Doom Eternal's somewhat linear levels are way better than something like GTAV's massive open barren nothingness. Or for something more similar mechanically, better than Serious Sam 1's endless bland rooms and open environments.

I was joking of course, but there's something to be said about the fact for a split second you could feel like you were navigating an actual place where you had to absorb your surroundings and check out a possible path.

 

[ekrolo2]

I look at Eternal's streamlining of levels the same way I do DMC5s, I would certainly like a bit more leeway but the levels are designed to get you from one pitched battle to the next. With combat mechanics as good as they are in both mentioned titles, it's hard not to argue with them going for that approach. Eternal's platforming might be considered a needless distraction but I really never found myself bothered by it save for the second to last mission in space heaven. You know the part I mean, that whole deal can fuck right off.

 

[Caim]

Aren't all the long-ass jumping puzzles just loading screens in disguise?

 

[UserNamer]

Let me reiterate, I think jumping puzzles should not take away health or extra lives when you fail. Removing a bit of health and moving you back to the checkpoint doesn't make any sense. Then when you die you restart at the checkpoint with full health.

It would be like, evertime you die in battle, you go back to the checkpoint, all enemies respawn, but your health is chipped. Until finally you restart with no life and you go back to the check point again with full health. It doesn't make ANY sense at all. Since you restart from the fucking checkpoint anyway and not from the last jump, what the fuck is the point of sending you back to the checkpoint and just chip your health away? It is stupid.

The core gameplay is excellent mind you, and at nightmare the gameplay is perfectly balanced, it just this jumping penalty that doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think the idea with the jumping puzzles is that they were meant to introduce another "dimension" to the game, literally, as it were. I think the devs even said something to do that effect, that they felt the vertical element was neglected in Doom 2016 and that movement was still too bound to the ground. They said this concerning arenas since in Doom Eternal they obviously want you to hop around in the air, hence also why they give you the grabbing hook, but from the arenas then this idea of exploiting verticality also seeped to the more straightforward downtime sections, where rather than just walk from point A to B in an horizontal line now you have to navigate the vertical axis as well.

So while those jumping sections between arenas feel pointless given how easy they are, i think the point is that they just don't want you stop thinking vertically at any point of the game.

 

[Durandal]

Good level design != how open it is and no other qualifiers apply.

Doom Eternal's somewhat linear levels are way better than something like GTAV's massive open barren nothingness. Or for something more similar mechanically, better than Serious Sam 1's endless bland rooms and open environments.

I was joking of course, but there's something to be said about the fact for a split second you could feel like you were navigating an actual place where you had to absorb your surroundings and check out a possible path.

I'm mostly ambivalent on this topic, because as far as I'm concerned the non-linearity is an illusion in games where there's no focus on long-term resource management (i.e. Doom Eternal, DMC) because what route you take in those games doesn't affect how the core gameplay plays out (i.e. the combat), as opposed to games like Resident Evil, Pathologic 2, or Metroidvanias where routing itself is part of the core gameplay. Hell, the non-linearity in several olDoom levels tended to be fake as well, as the keycards and keycard-gates were usually placed in such a way where there's only one correct route to take to complete the level, and deviating from it just makes you hit dead ends and wastes your time (unless there's secrets to be found that way).

However, even though I personally don't care much for non-linearity in games that don't rely on routing, I don't consider fake non-linearity to be a bad thing. If anything, I would argue that developers should take this non-linear approach to level design where possible even if it is fake, instead of using the standard hallway-arena format. While it may not make the game deeper and just makes it harder to find your bearings, the act of trying to find your bearings in itself does require more player engagement than moving forwards in a straight hallway, and player engagement is exactly what you want. You still want your downtime so the player doesn't get exhausted from having to be 100% on their game all the time, but by making them figure out where to go next in a non-combat situation you can still keep the player engaged without it being exhaustive or putting the player to sleep with an empty walking section. Doom Eternal already gives you HUD markers on where you need to go next (that you can disable), so it's like not like people have to put up with aimlessly getting lost if they don't want to. Having to backtrack through previous areas allows developers to get away more with reusing assets, so it basically saves money as well. And more importantly, there are more people who really like to see more 'complex' level design (even if it is completely fake) than there are people who absolutely do not want it or even people like me who don't care either way, so going that route is basically a win-win unless the gameplay really does not support it (because there's a time limit or something).

 

[UserNamer]

Good level design != how open it is and no other qualifiers apply.

Doom Eternal's somewhat linear levels are way better than something like GTAV's massive open barren nothingness. Or for something more similar mechanically, better than Serious Sam 1's endless bland rooms and open environments.

I was joking of course, but there's something to be said about the fact for a split second you could feel like you were navigating an actual place where you had to absorb your surroundings and check out a possible path.

I'm mostly ambivalent on this topic, because as far as I'm concerned the non-linearity is an illusion in games where there's no focus on long-term resource management (i.e. Doom Eternal, DMC) because what route you take in those games doesn't affect how the core gameplay plays out (i.e. the combat), as opposed to games like Resident Evil, Pathologic 2, or Metroidvanias where routing itself is part of the core gameplay. Hell, the non-linearity in several olDoom levels tended to be fake as well, as the keycards and keycard-gates were usually placed in such a way where there's only one correct route to take to complete the level, and deviating from it just makes you hit dead ends and wastes your time (unless there's secrets to be found that way).

However, even though I personally don't care much for non-linearity in games that don't rely on routing, I don't consider fake non-linearity to be a bad thing. If anything, I would argue that developers should take this non-linear approach to level design where possible even if it is fake, instead of using the standard hallway-arena format. While it may not make the game deeper and just makes it harder to find your bearings, the act of trying to find your bearings in itself does require more player engagement than moving forwards in a straight hallway, and player engagement is exactly what you want. You still want your downtime so the player doesn't get exhausted from having to be 100% on their game all the time, but by making them figure out where to go next in a non-combat situation you can still keep the player engaged without it being exhaustive or putting the player to sleep with an empty walking section. Doom Eternal already gives you HUD markers on where you need to go next (that you can disable), so it's like not like people have to put up with aimlessly getting lost if they don't want to. Having to backtrack through previous areas allows developers to get away more with reusing assets, so it basically saves money as well. And more importantly, there are more people who really like to see more 'complex' level design (even if it is completely fake) than there are people who absolutely do not want it or even people like me who don't care either way, so going that route is basically a win-win unless the gameplay really does not support it (because there's a time limit or something).

My only observation is that older doom had a much sharper visual style, less detail meant more easy navigation. If a game like doom eternal had true exploration it might be actually confusing given the amount of additional detail.

Doom eternal gets player engagement right in core gameplay combat and level are nicely designed in term of how non flat they are and arena design and enemy placement so it gets a pass In my book if levels are not as articulate layout wise. Also, the environments in doom eternal are mostly interesting. I would say the combat should far outweighs exploration in this sort of game. Still it would be nice to have mainstream games with the sense of place of a was like quake arcane dimensions for example

 

[Israfael]

Finished the DLC a few days ago, spent around 18 hrs to do that (with some idling in background, but still probably around 15 hrs at the very least), I'd say general difficulty curve is kinda inverted - UAC Atlantica felt the most challenging (in terms of non-gimmick fights), swamps were fairly easy apart from one arena with two archviles and possessed arachnotron, holt was mostly easy apart from last stage of the boss (I probably spent more time on it than the other fights combined).

In the end, I figured out a pretty easy strategy for dealing with the dynamic duo. Apparently micromissiles splash damage is very high, as you can kill the right side monster(dread knight?) in seconds by shooting at his legs (preferably from behind so it can't do aoe splash attack and other potentially lethal moves) from point-blank distance (time slow rune helps here). So, after they spawn it basically dies either on spot (if it does not jump on top of the pillar closer to you) or dies on that pillar (which is preferrable, hard to say, as the pain elemental behaves erratically and can move in completely different ways - it's a random factor that prevents this stragegy from working 100% of the time).

Depending on the situation (how close the maykr drone is), you can either move downstairs or just microwave the spirit on spot. After that, you shoot the bfg round if you still have one (i had one, with two it might be possible to just nuke them with dual bfg shot and kill the spirits / force one to possess a zombie), recharge ammo/shields (the next dread knight conveniently spawns right after you kill the first spirit) and then simply microwave the PE, moving around and using zombies to replenish purple ammo so that you'll have 50 cells to kill the spirit as soon as elemental is dead. It's also possible to just use the same tactics (micromissiles from point-blank range), but it'd require around 1.2x max ammo (or even more) and lots of dodging (intsead of stunlocking the PE with the beam and basically no threats apart from DK and maykr drone)

 

[Baron Dupek]

To anyone who want to try Doom Eternal on Swtich - it's digital only
https://www.ign.com/articles/doom-eternal-switch-not-cancelled-digital-only

 

[Tehdagah]

I thought Doom 2016 was boring, its selling point (melee) was underwhelming.

 

[Baron Dupek]

I thought Doom 2016 was boring, its selling point (melee) was underwhelming.

It's just one click and watching finishers animation of gruesome deaths, which gets old fast. If not Brutal Doom it would not be liked that much, but what do I know... modern gamers will eat any garbage these days.

 

[Citizen]

I've had more accidental falls when dodging enemies in Eternal than during platforming bits. If they were all instant deaths it would pretty damn annoying.

Play Turok if you really want to feel the PAIN of platforming and dodging a hell of bullets at the same time

 

[JDR13]

This is $20 on Steam right now which is the cheapest it's been. You can get the deluxe edition for $30

Sale lasts until Dec 1

 

[HansDampf]

Deluxe edition = all DLC?

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

This is $20 on Steam right now which is the cheapest it's been. You can get the deluxe edition for $30

Sale lasts until Dec 1

Did this game suddenly stop sucking, or why bother even at a discount?

 

[JDR13]

Deluxe edition = all DLC?

Yes

 

[Caim]

This is $20 on Steam right now which is the cheapest it's been. You can get the deluxe edition for $30

Sale lasts until Dec 1

Did this game suddenly stop sucking, or why bother even at a discount?

It's got a hefty sale thanks to African American Friday. The DLC continues on the combat of the base game, so if you want MOAR of Eternal's combat arenas you're in the right place. If not the DLC will not change your mind, in which case you can watch the cutscenes on youtube and that's it.

 

[Sore Loser]

.

 

[Infinitron]

Get ready for a new Master Level for Slayers of all skill levels: the bigger, badder, beefier Super Gore Nest! Take on remixed demon encounters that bring an all-new combat experience and show the world you’ve mastered the greatest challenge yet. Available now.

 

[KVVRR]

Is this the first master level since launch? Christ what's taking them so long

 

[JDR13]

Is it connected to the story in any way or just a self-contained level you access from the main menu?

 

[DalekFlay]

Is it connected to the story in any way or just a self-contained level you access from the main menu?

Master levels are the same levels from the story mode but remixed to be harder, iirc.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Is it connected to the story in any way or just a self-contained level you access from the main menu?

What DalekFlay said. Higher tier enemies, more of them, meaner combinations, etc. They're pretty damn fun although I also wonder why it's taking them so long to release more of them. I'd like a return of arcade mode too but it's kinda sounding like we're not gonna get it. Was a fun way to play Doom 2016 without the story beats and a bit of score chasing thrown in there for extra gud gittin'.

They also added something called the "Classic challenge" for this master level (I think it's a separate extra challenge, beyond just playing the master level itself) which is essentially pistol starting it. No pistol in Eternal so you're shotty starting, but then you find other weapons and addons during the map. Haven't played it yet so I don't know how well that'll work in Eternal, but more shit to fuck around with is fun.