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DOOM Eternal - the sequel to the 2016 reboot - now with The Ancient Gods DLC

Israfael

Arcane
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
3,871
Finished the swamp level after a bit of break, initially I was skeptical o people who said it's hard (the dog part wasn't that difficult, iniitial arenas were also easy (for nightmare)), but then I went to the final arenas of each area... I've probably spend two hours on the right side one, and about 30 mins on the left side (which is easier as it does not have a spirit-boosted arachnotron that you have to kill very quickly, and then two archviles immediately afterwards). Boss was a breeze compared to those two, but I don't complain, these arenas actually added a dimension of planning (when to use bfg, mostly, as well as having enough ammo for the plasmagun) and execution.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,133
Oh yeah, forgot to mention: Good DLC and feel I got my monies worth. good challenge for FPS lovers. Like the base game you'll like this. If you fear getting beat down too much, play on a easier difficulty. Looking forward to part 2. I may possibly replay on nightmare in the future. Big maybe (beat it on Ultra Violence). I will say it's not really notable in any special way aside from offering more Doom Eternal (good) and a pretty intense challenge...which honestly is very notable for a modern game. Get it and get good!
 

UserNamer

Cipher
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
692
Oh yeah, forgot to mention: Good DLC and feel I got my monies worth. good challenge for FPS lovers. Like the base game you'll like this. If you fear getting beat down too much, play on a easier difficulty. Looking forward to part 2. I may possibly replay on nightmare in the future. Big maybe (beat it on Ultra Violence). I will say it's not really notable in any special way aside from offering more Doom Eternal (good) and a pretty intense challenge...which honestly is very notable for a modern game. Get it and get good!


People have been bitching about the difficulty and having to play on easy, lol

It's encouraging to me what id did with the dlc. For a big AAA game to offer a proper challenge without backing down from whining is surprising. In fact I would say on nightmare it is not just a proper challenge, but more than that, something that expects mastery from the player. Their response on the video game journo style criticism of the marauder enemy type has been met with double marauders and buff totem empowered marauders.

You can criticise doom eternal but one thing is undeniable. It's a fast paced game that needs to be played to be won, where you can be aggressive instead of taking potshots behind cover. The point of the game is the gameplay and mastering it . For these reasons alone I would put it spiritually on the same category of old school fpses even if the gameplay has obviously some differences.

The focus on the fight gameplay is a very different approach from the one inaugurated btly valve, who considered fights as just another scripted sequence to be dealt with with the less effort possible so that the player can move on with the next set piece or scripted sequence ( and doubling down on marauders is a much better response than valve patching out the only moderately difficult fight in the entire hl2 series in episode 1)

So I declare doom eternal with dlc to be more incline than decline
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Oh yeah, forgot to mention: Good DLC and feel I got my monies worth. good challenge for FPS lovers. Like the base game you'll like this. If you fear getting beat down too much, play on a easier difficulty. Looking forward to part 2. I may possibly replay on nightmare in the future. Big maybe (beat it on Ultra Violence). I will say it's not really notable in any special way aside from offering more Doom Eternal (good) and a pretty intense challenge...which honestly is very notable for a modern game. Get it and get good!

My issue with ultra violence in the main game was that in later levels it just felt tedious. The difficulty wasn't the problem, but the endless swarms and need to constantly buff and use the right weapon just wore on me. There were sections where I'd say that was the case even on the default difficulty, like the end boss. Does the DLC ramp up these aspects, or is it more difficult in a genuine way?
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,133
Oh yeah, forgot to mention: Good DLC and feel I got my monies worth. good challenge for FPS lovers. Like the base game you'll like this. If you fear getting beat down too much, play on a easier difficulty. Looking forward to part 2. I may possibly replay on nightmare in the future. Big maybe (beat it on Ultra Violence). I will say it's not really notable in any special way aside from offering more Doom Eternal (good) and a pretty intense challenge...which honestly is very notable for a modern game. Get it and get good!

My issue with ultra violence in the main game was that in later levels it just felt tedious. The difficulty wasn't the problem, but the endless swarms and need to constantly buff and use the right weapon just wore on me. There were sections where I'd say that was the case even on the default difficulty, like the end boss. Does the DLC ramp up these aspects, or is it more difficult in a genuine way?

I didn't really experience any strict need to use the right weapon in the base game, aside from maybe the marauder (5 weapons are effective against him, remaining 4 are not). You're probably not going to like the DLC in that case because here it is stricter: Balista/heavy rifle are needed for the turrets, and plasma microwave mod needed for spirits.
 

UserNamer

Cipher
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
692
As said previously I like the game but some thoughts:

- I really don't think a game like this should have environmental or enemy threats that slow you down. Not a big complaint just a thought.
-there should be no hp penalty at all if you fail a jumping puzzle, and the game should not take an extra life if anyway it is sending you back to the checkpoint. If you fail a jumping puzzle you just should just start again from the checkpoint, instead of starting from the checkpoint with less health, and when you die you restart from the checkpoint anyway. I just think it's stupid the way it is designed.
-there should be a way to disable or tone down the effects when you are low on health.




Another thing, previously I said the level design is non existent. Well, that is unfair. Of course the levels are super linear but in terms of progression, looks, gameplay balance, I like them very much. When I say level design is non existent it feels too unfair because obviously a lot of care was spent in designing them and balancing them. And they never feel too "flat" at least.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,594
Good level design != how open it is and no other qualifiers apply.

Doom Eternal's somewhat linear levels are way better than something like GTAV's massive open barren nothingness. Or for something more similar mechanically, better than Serious Sam 1's endless bland rooms and open environments.

I was joking of course, but there's something to be said about the fact for a split second you could feel like you were navigating an actual place where you had to absorb your surroundings and check out a possible path.
 

ekrolo2

Scholar
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
202
I look at Eternal's streamlining of levels the same way I do DMC5s, I would certainly like a bit more leeway but the levels are designed to get you from one pitched battle to the next. With combat mechanics as good as they are in both mentioned titles, it's hard not to argue with them going for that approach. Eternal's platforming might be considered a needless distraction but I really never found myself bothered by it save for the second to last mission in space heaven. You know the part I mean, that whole deal can fuck right off.
 

UserNamer

Cipher
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
692
Let me reiterate, I think jumping puzzles should not take away health or extra lives when you fail. Removing a bit of health and moving you back to the checkpoint doesn't make any sense. Then when you die you restart at the checkpoint with full health.

It would be like, evertime you die in battle, you go back to the checkpoint, all enemies respawn, but your health is chipped. Until finally you restart with no life and you go back to the check point again with full health. It doesn't make ANY sense at all. Since you restart from the fucking checkpoint anyway and not from the last jump, what the fuck is the point of sending you back to the checkpoint and just chip your health away? It is stupid.

The core gameplay is excellent mind you, and at nightmare the gameplay is perfectly balanced, it just this jumping penalty that doesn't make sense at all.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,594
I think the idea with the jumping puzzles is that they were meant to introduce another "dimension" to the game, literally, as it were. I think the devs even said something to do that effect, that they felt the vertical element was neglected in Doom 2016 and that movement was still too bound to the ground. They said this concerning arenas since in Doom Eternal they obviously want you to hop around in the air, hence also why they give you the grabbing hook, but from the arenas then this idea of exploiting verticality also seeped to the more straightforward downtime sections, where rather than just walk from point A to B in an horizontal line now you have to navigate the vertical axis as well.

So while those jumping sections between arenas feel pointless given how easy they are, i think the point is that they just don't want you stop thinking vertically at any point of the game.
 
Last edited:

Durandal

Arcane
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
2,117
Location
New Eden
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Good level design != how open it is and no other qualifiers apply.

Doom Eternal's somewhat linear levels are way better than something like GTAV's massive open barren nothingness. Or for something more similar mechanically, better than Serious Sam 1's endless bland rooms and open environments.

I was joking of course, but there's something to be said about the fact for a split second you could feel like you were navigating an actual place where you had to absorb your surroundings and check out a possible path.
I'm mostly ambivalent on this topic, because as far as I'm concerned the non-linearity is an illusion in games where there's no focus on long-term resource management (i.e. Doom Eternal, DMC) because what route you take in those games doesn't affect how the core gameplay plays out (i.e. the combat), as opposed to games like Resident Evil, Pathologic 2, or Metroidvanias where routing itself is part of the core gameplay. Hell, the non-linearity in several olDoom levels tended to be fake as well, as the keycards and keycard-gates were usually placed in such a way where there's only one correct route to take to complete the level, and deviating from it just makes you hit dead ends and wastes your time (unless there's secrets to be found that way).

However, even though I personally don't care much for non-linearity in games that don't rely on routing, I don't consider fake non-linearity to be a bad thing. If anything, I would argue that developers should take this non-linear approach to level design where possible even if it is fake, instead of using the standard hallway-arena format. While it may not make the game deeper and just makes it harder to find your bearings, the act of trying to find your bearings in itself does require more player engagement than moving forwards in a straight hallway, and player engagement is exactly what you want. You still want your downtime so the player doesn't get exhausted from having to be 100% on their game all the time, but by making them figure out where to go next in a non-combat situation you can still keep the player engaged without it being exhaustive or putting the player to sleep with an empty walking section. Doom Eternal already gives you HUD markers on where you need to go next (that you can disable), so it's like not like people have to put up with aimlessly getting lost if they don't want to. Having to backtrack through previous areas allows developers to get away more with reusing assets, so it basically saves money as well. And more importantly, there are more people who really like to see more 'complex' level design (even if it is completely fake) than there are people who absolutely do not want it or even people like me who don't care either way, so going that route is basically a win-win unless the gameplay really does not support it (because there's a time limit or something).
 

UserNamer

Cipher
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
692
Good level design != how open it is and no other qualifiers apply.

Doom Eternal's somewhat linear levels are way better than something like GTAV's massive open barren nothingness. Or for something more similar mechanically, better than Serious Sam 1's endless bland rooms and open environments.

I was joking of course, but there's something to be said about the fact for a split second you could feel like you were navigating an actual place where you had to absorb your surroundings and check out a possible path.
I'm mostly ambivalent on this topic, because as far as I'm concerned the non-linearity is an illusion in games where there's no focus on long-term resource management (i.e. Doom Eternal, DMC) because what route you take in those games doesn't affect how the core gameplay plays out (i.e. the combat), as opposed to games like Resident Evil, Pathologic 2, or Metroidvanias where routing itself is part of the core gameplay. Hell, the non-linearity in several olDoom levels tended to be fake as well, as the keycards and keycard-gates were usually placed in such a way where there's only one correct route to take to complete the level, and deviating from it just makes you hit dead ends and wastes your time (unless there's secrets to be found that way).

However, even though I personally don't care much for non-linearity in games that don't rely on routing, I don't consider fake non-linearity to be a bad thing. If anything, I would argue that developers should take this non-linear approach to level design where possible even if it is fake, instead of using the standard hallway-arena format. While it may not make the game deeper and just makes it harder to find your bearings, the act of trying to find your bearings in itself does require more player engagement than moving forwards in a straight hallway, and player engagement is exactly what you want. You still want your downtime so the player doesn't get exhausted from having to be 100% on their game all the time, but by making them figure out where to go next in a non-combat situation you can still keep the player engaged without it being exhaustive or putting the player to sleep with an empty walking section. Doom Eternal already gives you HUD markers on where you need to go next (that you can disable), so it's like not like people have to put up with aimlessly getting lost if they don't want to. Having to backtrack through previous areas allows developers to get away more with reusing assets, so it basically saves money as well. And more importantly, there are more people who really like to see more 'complex' level design (even if it is completely fake) than there are people who absolutely do not want it or even people like me who don't care either way, so going that route is basically a win-win unless the gameplay really does not support it (because there's a time limit or something).
My only observation is that older doom had a much sharper visual style, less detail meant more easy navigation. If a game like doom eternal had true exploration it might be actually confusing given the amount of additional detail.

Doom eternal gets player engagement right in core gameplay combat and level are nicely designed in term of how non flat they are and arena design and enemy placement so it gets a pass In my book if levels are not as articulate layout wise. Also, the environments in doom eternal are mostly interesting. I would say the combat should far outweighs exploration in this sort of game. Still it would be nice to have mainstream games with the sense of place of a was like quake arcane dimensions for example
 

Israfael

Arcane
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
3,871
Finished the DLC a few days ago, spent around 18 hrs to do that (with some idling in background, but still probably around 15 hrs at the very least), I'd say general difficulty curve is kinda inverted - UAC Atlantica felt the most challenging (in terms of non-gimmick fights), swamps were fairly easy apart from one arena with two archviles and possessed arachnotron, holt was mostly easy apart from last stage of the boss (I probably spent more time on it than the other fights combined).

In the end, I figured out a pretty easy strategy for dealing with the dynamic duo. Apparently micromissiles splash damage is very high, as you can kill the right side monster(dread knight?) in seconds by shooting at his legs (preferably from behind so it can't do aoe splash attack and other potentially lethal moves) from point-blank distance (time slow rune helps here). So, after they spawn it basically dies either on spot (if it does not jump on top of the pillar closer to you) or dies on that pillar (which is preferrable, hard to say, as the pain elemental behaves erratically and can move in completely different ways - it's a random factor that prevents this stragegy from working 100% of the time).

Depending on the situation (how close the maykr drone is), you can either move downstairs or just microwave the spirit on spot. After that, you shoot the bfg round if you still have one (i had one, with two it might be possible to just nuke them with dual bfg shot and kill the spirits / force one to possess a zombie), recharge ammo/shields (the next dread knight conveniently spawns right after you kill the first spirit) and then simply microwave the PE, moving around and using zombies to replenish purple ammo so that you'll have 50 cells to kill the spirit as soon as elemental is dead. It's also possible to just use the same tactics (micromissiles from point-blank range), but it'd require around 1.2x max ammo (or even more) and lots of dodging (intsead of stunlocking the PE with the beam and basically no threats apart from DK and maykr drone)
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,871,441
Location
spite
I thought Doom 2016 was boring, its selling point (melee) was underwhelming.

It's just one click and watching finishers animation of gruesome deaths, which gets old fast. If not Brutal Doom it would not be liked that much, but what do I know... modern gamers will eat any garbage these days.
 

Citizen

Guest
I've had more accidental falls when dodging enemies in Eternal than during platforming bits. If they were all instant deaths it would pretty damn annoying.

Play Turok if you really want to feel the PAIN of platforming and dodging a hell of bullets at the same time
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
4,002
Location
The Swamp
This is $20 on Steam right now which is the cheapest it's been. You can get the deluxe edition for $30

Sale lasts until Dec 1
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
17,776
Location
Dutchland
This is $20 on Steam right now which is the cheapest it's been. You can get the deluxe edition for $30

Sale lasts until Dec 1
Did this game suddenly stop sucking, or why bother even at a discount?
It's got a hefty sale thanks to African American Friday. The DLC continues on the combat of the base game, so if you want MOAR of Eternal's combat arenas you're in the right place. If not the DLC will not change your mind, in which case you can watch the cutscenes on youtube and that's it.
 

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