Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[Saark]

I like watching Supers Razor, because the usage of his plasmafield is just above and beyond any other players. Just compare the damage distribution of plasmafield/autoattacks:

Fears Razor, Game 1 vs CDEC(47 minute game time) - http://yasp.co/matches/1694506494/performances

Supers Razor, Game 1 vs LGD(31 minute game time) - http://yasp.co/matches/1694672562/performances

Many people play Razor as that beefy frontliner that can sap damage and can push towers with an aghanims. Super just plays him as a frontliner that can consistently throw out a lot of damage on multiple heroes on low cooldown.

 

[Ninjerk]

WTF 10 MERLINI?

(also Sniper pick)

 

[you know what time it is]

razor is the most boring hero in dota.

I liked his old version, with frenzy and chain lightning. The new one doesn't do it for me either though.

 

[Ninjerk]

Super's Razor looks more like a rubber-banding tanky fighter (his plasma field ability just screams back-and-forth) whereas yes, the recent picks that I loathed were teams putting him out front and getting him blown up instead of letting the fight play out a little longer.

 

[Saark]

Guess vici is drafting Super his signature heroes more often now, with great success. Only missing an alchemist mid pick now. :D

 

[Pope Amole II]

Man, what happened with DotA, the chinese teams used to be the boring "FARM FARM FARM WE MUST FARM FOR THE GLORY OF CHINA" 70+ minute games, and now they're actually entertaining.

Chinese are very professional about this whole business (whereas the west is still in the genius pubbers mentality). So they always play in the manner that gives the most chance to win. And, well, during TI 2-3 that was just it. I remember v1lat mocking mocking IG and, iirc, LGD during the lower-bracket finals for playing hour long games filled with minor stuff like "leshrac support ran out from fountain, went to the line, gave lightning to creeps, returned to the fountain to regen 100 mana". But, well, that totally allowed the IG to slay Navi in the finals so, well, you can understand them.

And it's just that in the last 2 years passive farm is not how you actually win dota. I think the biggest proof to this are the creep stats - back then, it wasn't that uncommon for the carry to rack up 60-70 creeps during the first 10 minutes (and those would be lane creeps, stacking wasn't even abused then). Now, probably smth like 40-50 is considered a very good result. And since you need to be aggressive and active right now, they adapted and show the results.

 

[Sulimo]

How will PL deal with Earthshaker? During an all-pick game with my friends a while ago I went BKB so he just blew up my team and my illusions with Echo Slam and I could keep fighting, but I doubt that's a valid tactic in a pro game. Might have to splitpush and run the fuck away if he can't see ES.

 

[Saark]

Depending on the itembuild the echo isn't that big of a deal actually. If Hao opts to go for the quick skadi on his pl, he should be able to easily tank an echo and get some followup afterwards.

 

[Sulimo]

I don't know, maybe I'm stuck in 3k trench tier, but if I play PL and I see and earthshaker, I shit my pants and run away until he uses his echo slam on somebody else. If you have 15 illusions and a creepwave next to you, it messes you up so bad it's not even funny.

 

[Saark]

The new pl doesn't have that many illusions though, he usually only has 2 from his doppelganger unless he hits a creepwave and procs some more. Just let your team clean up the wave when you push the tower and use the doppelganger on cooldown (if its maxed) to push the tower. Send the illusion that cannot deal damage up front to scout a little, and deal damage with the other one and your main hero.

 

[SerratedBiz]

༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ VG TAKE MY ENERGY! ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ VG TAKE MY ENERGY! ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ VG TAKE MY ENERGY! ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ VG TAKE MY ENERGY! ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ VG TAKE MY ENERGY! ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ VG TAKE MY ENERGY! ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ VG TAKE MY ENERGY!

 

[Saark]

Doesn't matter who wins, as long as they wreck EG in the LB finals. LGD or vici, they both really deserve to go to the grand finals.

 

[Sulimo]

LGD on track to win this at the moment. Would like EG to win the LB finals so it's west vs. east in the grand finals. If I wanted to see asians playing against asians I would still be watching starcraft.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Fuck this TI.

 

[Sulimo]

In honor of Xiao八, here's his amazing appearance on a chinese dating show to tide us over until tomorrow. The charmer.

 

[Ninjerk]

Fuck this TI.

Better than last year, at least.

 

[AstroZombie]

CDEC proving that the Chinese Qualifiers are harder than the actual event.

 

[Saark]

If anything it goes to show that qualifiers are the way to go for future incarnations of the international. I expect TI6 to have at maximum 3 direct invites, the 3 winners of the majors, and the rest being played out in qualifiers. I feel like a couple of teams that went out early this tournament would've actually lost to many of the teams in the qualifiers (except Team Archon).

 

[SerratedBiz]

Better than last year, at least.

FUK IT IN THE ASS

 

[Ninjerk]

 

[Great Deceiver]

Just got a chance to check out the VG vs LGD games.

There's a misconception that all Chinese teams play the same style - they certainly don't. LGD has always been a safe, boring team. VG a little less, but less consistent too. CDEC is very fresh and that is because they have a lot of very young players. When I complain about Chinese Dota I'm mostly complaining about LGD. They're fucking boring as shit. Hope they get ass-reamed by EG in the loser's finals.

 

[Mr. Pink]

EG are super boring though. They play long dota where ppd drafts defensive shit like tree or dazzle and wait for sumail to get ahead on storm or qop while fear farms as insurance on a low impact safelane carry until they can secure a win. They're just as boring as LGD, but atleast I can appreciate xiao8s practical no-memepick drafting over the possibility of having to turn off another techies game.

 

[Great Deceiver]

There's no way EG is as boring as LGD, there's no Gyrocopter spam whenever he's not banned, PPD is actually the most solid drafter in the whole tournament (when he's not doing stupid shit like giving Fear a core Razor vs PL), and Aui is one of the most exciting support players out there.

Fear & Universe have been at it for a long time and are both stellar players, I think they deserve a win. I think their overall weakness is that Sumail can't play from behind.

 

[Saark]

There's a misconception that all Chinese teams play the same style - they certainly don't. LGD has always been a safe, boring team. VG a little less, but less consistent too. CDEC is very fresh and that is because they have a lot of very young players. When I complain about Chinese Dota I'm mostly complaining about LGD. They're fucking boring as shit. Hope they get ass-reamed by EG in the loser's finals.

And here I sit, greatly appreciating the style of play LGD provides. I've never seen a team that plays this disciplined and safe. I've never seen any team consistently secure a win after getting a lead in the early/midgame as well as LGD does. They're basically reverse-C9. It may me boring, but it's just a different type of DotA. I personally don't enjoy those 30-30 score games after 15minutes that for example happen quite often when CIS teams meet each other, because it means teams have made a buttload of mistakes to get there. When I watch competitive DotA I don't want to see players fail at playing the game.

There is one thing that kind of disappoints me though, but who can blame them: In the groupstages they repeatedly pulled out combinations like io+wisp or something similar, and steamrolled their opponents. I remember watching the LGD vs CoL games where maybe went 17-0-14 on tiny in less than 30 minutes, and it was a pleasure to watch this kind of aggression. This probably only works against lesser teams though, so against higher quality opponents they'll have to pull out the strats that work best in this situation - which is well disciplined, safe and 'boring' DotA. They only lost to CDEC so far, which I still feel like was more of a draft-issue than anything else, and I still fully expect them to win TI.

Edit: On a side note, I do have to mention that I personally enjoyed TI4 and especially the grandfinals too, simply because it was a nigh flawless performance from both Vici and Newbee (the only difference in the grandfinals being the shitty draft for vici in the last 3 games). Combined with the style they played that meant curbstomping the opponent in 15 minutes or less, and the opponent calling GG because they absolutely knew there was no chance of a comeback. EG vs CDEC game2 was kind of similar in that regard actually. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a similar grand finals this year, once the quality of the competition rises the games will be harder to come back from even early into the game. That's why C9 has these long-ass games and "throws", they're simply not as good as these remaining teams.

 

[abija]

There's no way EG is as boring as LGD, there's no Gyrocopter spam whenever he's not banned, PPD is actually the most solid drafter in the whole tournament (when he's not doing stupid shit like giving Fear a core Razor vs PL), and Aui is one of the most exciting support players out there.

Statements like that are so funny. On the main stage whenever naga wasn't banned versus them PPD always got her first pick for Aui. Actually excluding the first 2 games versus Newbee in group stage, naga was banned first phase or first pick for Aui.