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Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)
- Thread starter Rpgsaurus
- Start date
curry
Arcane
http://www.twitch.tv/moonmeander/b/520184333?t=275m17s
"the mute system is controlled by the government"
"the mute system is controlled by the government"
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Thats what happens when you feed, children ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Pope Amole II
Nerd Commando Game Studios
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2012
- Messages
- 2,052
TBH, most of those aghs are kinda overhyped. Say, Lina buff - sure, massive dmg through bkb is great and it seems like a natural counter to bkb-rushing luna/SF/gyro, but how do you actually farm one on a support Lina? Of course, with recent buffs, Lina starts to look less and less like a support and more and more like semi-carry, but is she really viable in that role at competitive level? When was the last time we've seen solo-mid Lina? Same goes for Abaddon, for example - aghs is cool and stuff, but it calls for a carry position. And while carry Abaddon is certainly great in the pubs, once again, we've yet to see anyone do so in the competitive play.
I'm not saying those aghs are bad, but it's all doom/necro/omni/disruptor agh hype again.
Now, for the patch itself, my highlights will be:
1. Bloodseeker - bloodrage persisting through bkb and manta seems huge. Of course, you don't want to give that 120% dmg bonus to something like a bkb-d gyro or luna, but having a chance to shut up something like storm spirit or xin or qup is an interesting proposition. And you can also throw it on your carry if it's a relatively non-casting one - y'know, something like wraith king, lycan or drow ranger will definitely benefit from both bkb and double damage. It's probably gonna be shit at the pro-scene, though, because jungle blood is too slow, solo mid blood is too weak and carry blood is meh, but at least it's gonna wreck some pubs.
2. Earthshaker - honestly, the creep pathing nerf is too huge. The hero is already starved for experience, and now he can't even pull an extra camp or two.
3. Juggernaut - that 1.5 attack time seems like big to me. Let's not forget that the main goal of jugger is to get aghanim and, after that, attack speed so high so you can attack between the slashes. And this reduction makes it much easier to achieve. Not to mention that his pseudo-random crits also benefit from the buff.
4. Lich - aghs is lulzy, but frost armor feels like the real deal. 9 armor to your tower is huge, it lasts 40 freaking seconds and it slows everyone who dares hit the tower (and they'll have to if they want to push it, obviously). The resurgence of solo-hard lich, mb?
5. Meepo - 10 speed increase may not seem like much but, considering the hero is all about global presence and mobility, it may be the grain that will finally propel the little guy(s) into the competitive. I mean, he's already been used to a measure of success, it's just a matter of training him hard.
6. Ogre magi - cast animation buff is great and that armour increase seems little, but considering hero has 587 basic hps and now 7 armor...
7. Phantom assassin - extra evasion is always neat (especially with even a casual talisman of evasion over the top - 50% base evasion is a point past which any further increase becomes ridiculously efficient), but it's more about stifling dager cd. Phantom assassin isn't played because she has problems with farm and in hands of a decent player every dagger is an extra creep farmed. Now it's extra 2.5 daggers per minute. Sure, that won't result in extra 2.5 creeps farmed because of the mana pool problems, but honestly, even 10 extra creeps in first ten minutes may make the difference.
8. Razor - all he really needs is survivability, now he has extra 10 hp per level. Doesn't look like much, but it may buy you a second or two and in some games that's all the difference between winning and losing.
9. Riki - sure, it's a pub here, but I think his freshly obtained super-deny powers may be used to some extent at the pro-scene. Take the fashionable solo-hard centaur - if you deny the living crap out of him (and with 80+ dmg at lvl 3, that shouldn't be hard for a pro), what's he's gonna do? He really needs levels and blink to be useful. Also, it'll help Riki to pull the lane closer to his tower and that's vital for the hero - it's too dangerous to backstab enemy creeps if the lane is far out. He'll be a fringe pick, at best, but that's still better than his current position.
10. SF - was already good in the last patch, now he's also a semi-counter to the bkb-rushing carries. 50% damage reduction for 5 seconds is not a joke.
11. Silencer - probably won't amount to anything, but I really wanna see this guy played as a carry and, well, having a good agi-gain is a start.
12. Tidehunter - the ability to stack and farm ancients (and even merely hard camps) is priceless. Sure, you'll probably need to put some early points into your passive for it, but I dunno, with all the recent changes, the passive became quite potent in the early game. Also, now tide becomes a valid jungler - he already wasn't that bad at it in previous patch (no enigma, ofc) and now he's even better.
13. Ursa - an obvious highlight, but more of a negative one. Yeah, cause it needed to be an even better pub stomper. I've had a fucking annoying game last week where I, as a drow, farmed s&y and skadi so the ursa fucker crawled like a turtle, but of course my team managed to run into him anyways and no one bothered to get even a casual platemail, running with 5 to 8 armor.
14. Vengeful Spirit - looks quite synergistic with her ulti. Often she swaps, trades and dies and, well, now dying for her is much more efficient than previously (and you know that someone in pub will make a bloodstone on her and will boast his next-level tech and the other guy will excuse his feeding with the intentional debuffing). Of course, it's not that broken because the killer may just go to base or be killed immediately, but sometimes it'll help.
15. Witch doctor - actually, -15 secs on a maledict cooldown seems great. It's probably the main reason to play witch doctor and now you can have almost twice as much of it. Also, ~12% increase in death ward's damage is nothing to scoff at.
16. Zeus - well, everyone talks about it, now he's a man ward. No ideas how to lane him, though - as a solo-mid he won't have time to deward, you don't want him as carry and as a support he's pretty useless. Well, he was, but will free dewarding make solo-zeus worth it? I guess he has the silver-lining of being able to stack camps and farm them more or less quickly once lvl 3 or so, but still... Needs testing.
I'm not saying those aghs are bad, but it's all doom/necro/omni/disruptor agh hype again.
Now, for the patch itself, my highlights will be:
1. Bloodseeker - bloodrage persisting through bkb and manta seems huge. Of course, you don't want to give that 120% dmg bonus to something like a bkb-d gyro or luna, but having a chance to shut up something like storm spirit or xin or qup is an interesting proposition. And you can also throw it on your carry if it's a relatively non-casting one - y'know, something like wraith king, lycan or drow ranger will definitely benefit from both bkb and double damage. It's probably gonna be shit at the pro-scene, though, because jungle blood is too slow, solo mid blood is too weak and carry blood is meh, but at least it's gonna wreck some pubs.
2. Earthshaker - honestly, the creep pathing nerf is too huge. The hero is already starved for experience, and now he can't even pull an extra camp or two.
3. Juggernaut - that 1.5 attack time seems like big to me. Let's not forget that the main goal of jugger is to get aghanim and, after that, attack speed so high so you can attack between the slashes. And this reduction makes it much easier to achieve. Not to mention that his pseudo-random crits also benefit from the buff.
4. Lich - aghs is lulzy, but frost armor feels like the real deal. 9 armor to your tower is huge, it lasts 40 freaking seconds and it slows everyone who dares hit the tower (and they'll have to if they want to push it, obviously). The resurgence of solo-hard lich, mb?
5. Meepo - 10 speed increase may not seem like much but, considering the hero is all about global presence and mobility, it may be the grain that will finally propel the little guy(s) into the competitive. I mean, he's already been used to a measure of success, it's just a matter of training him hard.
6. Ogre magi - cast animation buff is great and that armour increase seems little, but considering hero has 587 basic hps and now 7 armor...
7. Phantom assassin - extra evasion is always neat (especially with even a casual talisman of evasion over the top - 50% base evasion is a point past which any further increase becomes ridiculously efficient), but it's more about stifling dager cd. Phantom assassin isn't played because she has problems with farm and in hands of a decent player every dagger is an extra creep farmed. Now it's extra 2.5 daggers per minute. Sure, that won't result in extra 2.5 creeps farmed because of the mana pool problems, but honestly, even 10 extra creeps in first ten minutes may make the difference.
8. Razor - all he really needs is survivability, now he has extra 10 hp per level. Doesn't look like much, but it may buy you a second or two and in some games that's all the difference between winning and losing.
9. Riki - sure, it's a pub here, but I think his freshly obtained super-deny powers may be used to some extent at the pro-scene. Take the fashionable solo-hard centaur - if you deny the living crap out of him (and with 80+ dmg at lvl 3, that shouldn't be hard for a pro), what's he's gonna do? He really needs levels and blink to be useful. Also, it'll help Riki to pull the lane closer to his tower and that's vital for the hero - it's too dangerous to backstab enemy creeps if the lane is far out. He'll be a fringe pick, at best, but that's still better than his current position.
10. SF - was already good in the last patch, now he's also a semi-counter to the bkb-rushing carries. 50% damage reduction for 5 seconds is not a joke.
11. Silencer - probably won't amount to anything, but I really wanna see this guy played as a carry and, well, having a good agi-gain is a start.
12. Tidehunter - the ability to stack and farm ancients (and even merely hard camps) is priceless. Sure, you'll probably need to put some early points into your passive for it, but I dunno, with all the recent changes, the passive became quite potent in the early game. Also, now tide becomes a valid jungler - he already wasn't that bad at it in previous patch (no enigma, ofc) and now he's even better.
13. Ursa - an obvious highlight, but more of a negative one. Yeah, cause it needed to be an even better pub stomper. I've had a fucking annoying game last week where I, as a drow, farmed s&y and skadi so the ursa fucker crawled like a turtle, but of course my team managed to run into him anyways and no one bothered to get even a casual platemail, running with 5 to 8 armor.
14. Vengeful Spirit - looks quite synergistic with her ulti. Often she swaps, trades and dies and, well, now dying for her is much more efficient than previously (and you know that someone in pub will make a bloodstone on her and will boast his next-level tech and the other guy will excuse his feeding with the intentional debuffing). Of course, it's not that broken because the killer may just go to base or be killed immediately, but sometimes it'll help.
15. Witch doctor - actually, -15 secs on a maledict cooldown seems great. It's probably the main reason to play witch doctor and now you can have almost twice as much of it. Also, ~12% increase in death ward's damage is nothing to scoff at.
16. Zeus - well, everyone talks about it, now he's a man ward. No ideas how to lane him, though - as a solo-mid he won't have time to deward, you don't want him as carry and as a support he's pretty useless. Well, he was, but will free dewarding make solo-zeus worth it? I guess he has the silver-lining of being able to stack camps and farm them more or less quickly once lvl 3 or so, but still... Needs testing.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,856
Necrophos buff seems pretty big to me. A lot of games revolve around taking out the enemy carry and pushing while he's dead for a billion years due to his high level. Making him dead for 30% longer is a big deal if you pull it off.
Moonmeander best playeruuu
LoL, game crashes when a tower kills Venge :D
Mine didnt work yesterday, only jumped 10 times ...
Pope Amole II
Nerd Commando Game Studios
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2012
- Messages
- 2,052
Lol, what a game I just had.
So I'm a doom ( my favourite hero). I'm also a jungler - I'm old and lazy and can't be bothered to drag my ass on the lane. Not until I farm up some goodies, at least.
Now, from the pick it's quite obvious that we were fucked right up from the start - they have lich, ds and zeus (some crazy pub ults) and two more or less decent carries. Kinda vulnerable to ganks, I guess, but once you look at our pick you'll see that we had pure shit here - 4 carries, 1 support. Even worse was the laning - I was hoping to jungle, but veng+alch went easy and clinkz+jugger went hard. Since no one was on mid, I was forced to go there (2nd time in my life). Versus Zeus. Now, I didn't do too badly - at 11 minutes I had 52 creeps and only died twice (the score was, like, 0-10 at that point) - the hell can I do against 3-man ganks, especially the first one, DD Luna? No missing calls, obv. Still, I had bottle, midas & boots so it wasn't that bad. What was bad was my team. Now, the 0-10 score at 11 minutes tells it all (oh, wait, I'm lying - it was 1-10 because I doomed someone), but let me elaborate:
Venge was one of the most whiniest bitch I've ever seen in my life. He went and went and went on how shitty we all were, but in the team of Alchemist, Clinkz and Jugger he haven't bothered to skill even a single level of wave of terror until, like, 30 minutes into the game. No comments.
Clinkz took his first level of ulti at level 13. No comments.
The only thing alchemist ever did was stealing my farm. He also went into greevil's greed first and, obviously, couldn't last hit for his life so he was messing around with the small neutral camp until he got his bf.
Jugger... Wasn't that bad, I guess? Of course, his battlefury is pretty stupid in this team (as everyone wants to farm), but at least he was more or less decent at fighting. Still, if only he went aghs - like, my assault cuirass, venge's wave (if that was a proper venge), alchemists' acid, maybe a desolator for clinkz...
Also, for my build - yeah, doom's aghanims is not that great, but that was a metagaming choice. I went for it after we were already in the deep shit and it helped me to collect quite a number of their streaks. Especially since they got relaxed and began feeding at one point of the game. I guess we could've turned it around, but not with a team like that. Ugh.
So I'm a doom ( my favourite hero). I'm also a jungler - I'm old and lazy and can't be bothered to drag my ass on the lane. Not until I farm up some goodies, at least.
Now, from the pick it's quite obvious that we were fucked right up from the start - they have lich, ds and zeus (some crazy pub ults) and two more or less decent carries. Kinda vulnerable to ganks, I guess, but once you look at our pick you'll see that we had pure shit here - 4 carries, 1 support. Even worse was the laning - I was hoping to jungle, but veng+alch went easy and clinkz+jugger went hard. Since no one was on mid, I was forced to go there (2nd time in my life). Versus Zeus. Now, I didn't do too badly - at 11 minutes I had 52 creeps and only died twice (the score was, like, 0-10 at that point) - the hell can I do against 3-man ganks, especially the first one, DD Luna? No missing calls, obv. Still, I had bottle, midas & boots so it wasn't that bad. What was bad was my team. Now, the 0-10 score at 11 minutes tells it all (oh, wait, I'm lying - it was 1-10 because I doomed someone), but let me elaborate:
Venge was one of the most whiniest bitch I've ever seen in my life. He went and went and went on how shitty we all were, but in the team of Alchemist, Clinkz and Jugger he haven't bothered to skill even a single level of wave of terror until, like, 30 minutes into the game. No comments.
Clinkz took his first level of ulti at level 13. No comments.
The only thing alchemist ever did was stealing my farm. He also went into greevil's greed first and, obviously, couldn't last hit for his life so he was messing around with the small neutral camp until he got his bf.
Jugger... Wasn't that bad, I guess? Of course, his battlefury is pretty stupid in this team (as everyone wants to farm), but at least he was more or less decent at fighting. Still, if only he went aghs - like, my assault cuirass, venge's wave (if that was a proper venge), alchemists' acid, maybe a desolator for clinkz...
Also, for my build - yeah, doom's aghanims is not that great, but that was a metagaming choice. I went for it after we were already in the deep shit and it helped me to collect quite a number of their streaks. Especially since they got relaxed and began feeding at one point of the game. I guess we could've turned it around, but not with a team like that. Ugh.
Ninjerk
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2013
- Messages
- 14,323
Without looking at the replay I'd guess a Radiance would have been many times more useful than Aghanim's Scepter, but honestly your whole team looks retarded just from the end screen. Venge has PMS but virtually no CS, I can't play CLinkz worth a damn but it's no wonder he doesn't have any kills with no way to shut or slow someone down, and the Juggernaut build is fucking aimless. Looks like he was building to farm ancients and nothing else.
LOL you guys. Radiance on doom really? Actually radiance on anything thats not Naga ever? Also PT on doom? As bad as your team was your build was super shit too.
Doom is a good mek carrier, never go aghanim, vlads AC works wonder for your team, SB if you want some ganking on squishy carries. This game I'd go phase into vlad rush SB and dont let pa and luna farm killing them every time doom is off cooldown. Then Shivas into refresher maybe or heart, depending on enemy farm. If you wanted to go carry then phase into AC into AB I guess but carry doom is pretty weak since hes melee and has no skills helping him carry.
Considering that no enemy carries went BKB you could also get blademail and heart and laugh at them killing themselves on you.
Doom is a good mek carrier, never go aghanim, vlads AC works wonder for your team, SB if you want some ganking on squishy carries. This game I'd go phase into vlad rush SB and dont let pa and luna farm killing them every time doom is off cooldown. Then Shivas into refresher maybe or heart, depending on enemy farm. If you wanted to go carry then phase into AC into AB I guess but carry doom is pretty weak since hes melee and has no skills helping him carry.
Considering that no enemy carries went BKB you could also get blademail and heart and laugh at them killing themselves on you.
Pope Amole II
Nerd Commando Game Studios
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2012
- Messages
- 2,052
Lol, obv you're not reading what I'm writing. I don't need your advices on doom builds - what's the point of even building anything when clinkz takes the first skill level in his ulti at 30 minutes mark? What's the point of getting a mek when this 663 hp shit is running around at 25 minutes? What's the point of getting radiance if there are 2 overleveled dex carries on enemy team who'll kill me in 0.5 seconds without at least two platemails? Luna had, like, a 15 minutes satanic or something like that - what would blademail do against an enabled satanic? She'll still heal up.
This is the worst thing about dota players - this "I fucking know all" attitude.
This is the worst thing about dota players - this "I fucking know all" attitude.
Im telling you you could have won this by shutting down 2 of enemy carry heroes. With 4 enemy carries its not possible but with two and those being super squishy luna pa you could have done it alone. But whatever, blame the team.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,856
Tbh when he described the lineup I was thinking radiant should win easily. Pretty much everyone on the team is potentially effective for ganking past level 6. Hell, two of you basically have free kill buttons as ults. Should have let the alch farm as much as he wanted while the rest of you make life hell for the luna and PA.
Pope Amole II
Nerd Commando Game Studios
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2012
- Messages
- 2,052
One thing I'm positively enjoying in this new patch is the kotl's aghanim - racked up an 8-3 record with this hero, prioritizing the scepter in every game. It's pretty crazy - vision area is ridiculous and racks up quite a number of kills for your team (that is, if your team is ganky enough, that's the downside), healing is incredibly good (though getting your teammates to step into that damn wave may pose a trouble), constantly available blinding light may save your hide (or your teammates) and recall... Well, I'm playing kotl mostly when I'm without my stack of russian schoolkids (yes, I have quite the connoisseur way of enjoying dota) so team coordination usually sucks... But at least I can troll annoying teammates with it.
Of course, it's gonna get harder in a number of weeks (months?) as most people will get more or less accustomed to it (atm you often get those easy kills through vision because people just have no idea that kotl does that), but I'll enjoy it for as long as it continues.
Of course, it's gonna get harder in a number of weeks (months?) as most people will get more or less accustomed to it (atm you often get those easy kills through vision because people just have no idea that kotl does that), but I'll enjoy it for as long as it continues.
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