Dragon Age: Inquisition Pre-Release Thread

[tuluse]

I think there's merit to saying that Star Wars is kiddie space fantasy good vs. evil, so KotOR2 doesn't really "fit" in the universe. That said they had Obsidian make it, and Obsidian should make what they find interesting. As someone who thinks Star Wars is kind of shit outside of Empire Strikes Back's visual aesthetic I don't care if it betrays the parent series, but I get why betraying the parent series can be bad. Imagine a Doctor Who FPS.

It could work...


If you played a Dalek.

 

[Tytus]

To be honest KoTOR 2 wasn't the only part of the Star Wars that did it. In the EU and specifically in the New Jedi Order series there was Vergere. She was for all for all intents and purposes Kreia of that series. She was a Jedi from before the fall of the Republic that left the galaxy before the Clone Wars. She claimed that there isn't such a thing as Dark side or Light side of the Force. There is only Unifying Force. And the Sith or Dark Jedi that appeared over the years weren't a product of some evil energy waiting for them, but a product of their own desires, rage, hunger for power etc. Because Jedi feel every emotion a lot stronger that non-Force users and their personality can corrupt them, but not the Force itself. She also claimed that the most important part of using the Force is your intentions. You can basically do bad things and not become a dark Jedi if your intentions are pure and you do them for the right reasons. And it also worked the other way around - if you do good things for the bad reasons it will in the long run destroy you.　

And the best part about was the entire NEJ series played it straight with her (around 20 something books). They didn't turn her into a Sith or anything. She even had a heroic death.　(And then in the Legacy of the Force series she was retconned as a Palpatine apprentice that supposed to take Darth Maul place, but she betrayed him and had to run. Thus destroying everything what was cool about Vergere)　

My point is that Kotor 2 wasn't the only exception and that sometimes going a step further than the parent series can actually have some good results.

 

[Bubbles]

My primary memory of the KotOR games is being bored to shit by the gameplay, reacting to the big twists by thinking "didn't they already reveal this twenty hours ago?", and feeling the constant need to meta game my dialogue choices (part 2 only) while wishing I could get used to playing DOS-era games.
Turns out, I did get used to it, a couple of good indie RPGs were released, and now I see no reason whatsoever to recommend KotOR 1 or 2 to any sane non-Star Wars fan.

Even Dragon Age 2 was more challenging, interesting, and thought provoking to me than any of the KotOR games, and I did not like DA2 at all. I'd still rather play through a same sex romance with nude-modded Merril than go through that hackneyed Bastila dark side bullshit again.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

eremita , are you a Pretty Princess? Or George Lucas' s buttboy?

 

[eremita]

Yep yep it's another 2013 shitposter

Nope.

'I didn't like the petty evil options in the first game (but then, I play Light Side, so it wasn't like I was going to take them anyway), but they were at least recognizable as evil. (...) In the second game, I got actively pissed off when dialog options that were onlysarcastic earned me dark side points. I don't complain if talking about love of battle or people deserving to die gives me a dark side point, but if being snarky is enough for me to suddenly grow black veins on my face, that's just stupid (...) and can also lead to times when the player is pissed off because the game didn't explain things to them (...) hated having Darth Old Lady explain moral ambiguity to me, when I knew that she was evil the whole time, and she and I lived in a world where evil spellcasters got ugly crap on their faces to make it pretty damn clear that no, giving the guy some money was not actually a morally twisty act with consequences that I couldn't possibly understand, Darth Old Lady was just being a dink and needed to stay on the ship.' - He's basically repeating two things all over again: 1) Even though we're in the universe with established rules, the game a) breaks them ((moral ambiguity) b) works with them in unpredictable way (giving me dark side points for being sarcastic). That might be a problem when you bought SW game because you want your typical SW experience. And that's why he's adding this: 'I want to be Mister Glowy Sparkly aura of awesome. That's what I paid $60 for.' He's clearly just talking about SW universe because of this part: 'I also can't wait to see how Obsidian does with Alpha Protocol. I think it's a better IP for the type of games they produce.' - Based on that, the general statement is this: Stay true to your IP. This is the main point of his argument, not minor.

2) Player should be always aware what's going on. This is not that clear from this post, but Weekes expanded on that in some interview I saw. He was talking about Bioware trying to be always 'honest' with the player. He understands why someone likes C&C like Witcher has - something absolutely unpredictable will happen, viz Pogrom in first ACT in W2. But part of that is that good intentions sometimes lead to even more fucked-up situation, that in many ways, player's decision is actually pretty insignificant. Bioware philosophy then goes like this: player should alwys know what's going on and what consequence will his actions have (at least in general). They probably think that it's gonna make your decision harder (you can see pretty clearly)... From my point of view, It's actually ok, because in Bioware's IP's, you're always someone in charge (Warden, Shepard) or someone who at least has power in their hands (Hawke). It fits. And we've come full circle with Weekes's statements.

 

[bminorkey]

ok this confused me so i'll type it out for you

'I didn't

quote starts here

they produce.'

ends here

the ship.'

with a bus stop here

 

[eremita]

playing with these rules (...) NOT deconstructing

Does not compute.

Succubus fighting her own evil nature in this bizzare and arbitrary world.

Is already nothing but deconstruction.
Deconstruction != just saying "lolno".

No, that is not deconstruction (I'm not a native speaker, I understand decostruction in this manner: 'To deconstruct is to take a text apart along the structural “fault lines” created by the ambiguities inherent in one or more of its key concepts or themes in order to reveal the equivocations or contradictions that make the text possible. For example, in “Plato’s Pharmacy,” Derrida deconstructs Socrates’ criticism of the written word, arguing that it not only suffers from internal inconsistencies because of the analogy Socrates himself makes between memory and writing, but also stands in stark contrast to the fact that his ideas come to us only through the written word he disparaged...' - let's use condtradicts/violate if it suits better. That's what I menat the whole time.) Grace doesn't contradict established premises of the universe, Kreia does...

eremita , are you a Pretty Princess? Or George Lucas' s buttboy?

If things like these different design concepts are so fucking crytal clear to you, if you don't even have to think about them, then I feel sorry for you. Fanboyism of any kind sucks... I don't give a shit about Star Wars, that's not what I'm talking about here at all. And if ou don't get it, then again, I feel sorry for you.

 

[Commissar Draco]

I don't like Star Wars it's kiddie SF but I like Kotor and even more Kotor II cause it was not good SW game like Jedi Academy was; even if the sequel had much less epic ending than first one; I mean not Cannon ending. But if someone prefers Biowhorean cheesy dialogues and fuckable companions of any race and orientation be my guest; I don't realy care enough to bitch on internetz over someone shity taste. Kreya was put into game to show how cartonish and stupid SW universe with its Machavelian conflict between space Hippies and Chaotic Evul Shits and she done her part perfectly in Commissar opinion.

 

[Raghar]

Yep yep it's another 2013 shitposter

Don't worry, 2013 ends soon, and you'd see even more 2014 ones.

 

[DraQ]

I think there's merit to saying that Star Wars is kiddie space fantasy good vs. evil, so KotOR2 doesn't really "fit" in the universe. That said they had Obsidian make it, and Obsidian should make what they find interesting. As someone who thinks Star Wars is kind of shit outside of Empire Strikes Back's visual aesthetic I don't care if it betrays the parent series, but I get why betraying the parent series can be bad.

TBH I don't give a damn about "betraying" original material as long as it's incline and isn't a full retard retcon.

Take TES, for example - Daggerfall, for example, wasn't exactly faithful sequel to Arena. Morrowind (we're not talking mechanics or scale here!) and earlier Redguard also changed background material for the better.

Oblivion, OTOH shat on the source material replacing it with banal shit boring.

Imagine a Doctor Who FPS.

Or a side-scroller.

Spoiler

2) Player should be always aware what's going on. This is not that clear from this post, but Weekes expanded on that in some interview I saw. He was talking about Bioware trying to be always 'honest' with the player. He understands why someone likes C&C like Witcher has - something absolutely unpredictable will happen, viz Pogrom in first ACT in W2. But part of that is that good intentions sometimes lead to even more fucked-up situation, that in many ways, player's decision is actually pretty insignificant. Bioware philosophy then goes like this: player should alwys know what's going on and what consequence will his actions have (at least in general).

And it's shit.

Choices should have, sometimes hard to predict or even unpredictable, ripple effects - for example see TW1 where you had to guard that guy's wares on the shore.
As long as there is an actual causal chain from choice to consequence (so no "you've been mean to someone so you get cancer in endgame" sort of retardation) it's ok.

Bioware philosophy is simply just another instance of "by morons for morons" so prevalent in today's gaming industry.

Grace doesn't contradict established premises of the universe

If someone was inherently evil, why (and how) would they seek to not be so?

What's your motivation to not be evil if all your motivation flows from being evil because that's what you are?

 

[eremita]

I think there's merit to saying that Star Wars is kiddie space fantasy good vs. evil, so KotOR2 doesn't really "fit" in the universe. That said they had Obsidian make it, and Obsidian should make what they find interesting. As someone who thinks Star Wars is kind of shit outside of Empire Strikes Back's visual aesthetic I don't care if it betrays the parent series, but I get why betraying the parent series can be bad.

TBH I don't give a damn about "betraying" original material as long as it's incline and isn't a full retard retcon.

Take TES, for example - Daggerfall, for example, wasn't exactly faithful sequel to Arena. Morrowind (we're not talking mechanics or scale here!) and earlier Redguard also changed background material for the better.

Oblivion, OTOH shat on the source material replacing it with banal shit boring.

Imagine a Doctor Who FPS.

Or a side-scroller.

Spoiler

2) Player should be always aware what's going on. This is not that clear from this post, but Weekes expanded on that in some interview I saw. He was talking about Bioware trying to be always 'honest' with the player. He understands why someone likes C&C like Witcher has - something absolutely unpredictable will happen, viz Pogrom in first ACT in W2. But part of that is that good intentions sometimes lead to even more fucked-up situation, that in many ways, player's decision is actually pretty insignificant. Bioware philosophy then goes like this: player should alwys know what's going on and what consequence will his actions have (at least in general).

And it's shit.

Choices should have, sometimes hard to predict or even unpredictable, ripple effects - for example see TW1 where you had to guard that guy's wares on the shore.
As long as there is an actual causal chain from choice to consequence (so no "you've been mean to someone so you get cancer in endgame" sort of retardation) it's ok.

Bioware philosophy is simply just another instance of "by morons for morons" so prevalent in today's gaming industry.

It's just a concept. Concepts are not inherently right or wrong, only particular execution is right/wrong... I liked this particular execution in Mass Effect, I didn't like it in KOTOR1...

Grace doesn't contradict established premises of the universe
If someone was inherently evil, why (and how) would they seek to not be so?

What's your motivation to not be evil if all your motivation flows from being evil because that's what you are?

No. She is not inherently evil, she is creature of chaos and evil. This is very close to the difference between essence X existence as I understand it. That's because one of the rules is that one can change their alignment, so it doesn't violate anything. But it is exactly this type of thing tht creates something interesting - Succubus fighting her own nature (fighting her essence)... Only because of universe with bizzare rules is something like this posible.

 

[Storyfag]

Never had this problem while playing Twitcher 2, but I played in a Human language (polish), not this animal speak (english), maybe the localization guys fucked it all up.

Well fuck you too!

 

[DraQ]

It's just a concept. Concepts are not inherently right or wrong, only particular execution is right/wrong

If every execution of a concept is no better than that of its competitor it's wrong.

No. She is not inherently evil, she is creature of chaos and evil. This is very close to the difference between essence X existence as I understand it. That's because one of the rules is that one can change their alignment, so it doesn't violate anything. But it is exactly this type of thing tht creates something interesting - Succubus fighting her own nature (fighting her essence)... Only because of universe with bizzare rules is something like this posible.

You could have inner struggle of creature compelled to sow chaos and destruction without universal moral labels tacked onto it.

Other than coming bundled with the setting alignments don't bring anything to PS:T.

 

[Ramireza]

Joined: Oct 21, 2013

What a dumb comment, realy.

And you are an Moderator. Pathetic.

 

[Ninjerk]

Joined: Oct 21, 2013

What a dumb comment, realy.

And you are an Moderator. Pathetic.

Fuck off.

 

[Jick Magger]

Joined: Oct 21, 2013

What a dumb comment, realy.

And you are an Moderator. Pathetic.

If you seriously can't put up with him now, then I recommend getting out now while you've still only got 100 posts under your belt.

Make a thread complaining about the mods on site feedback, it'll ensure you're never able to come back.

 

[racofer]

And read the fucking rules before complaining, you imbecile.

 

[DraQ]

Joined: Oct 21, 2013

What a dumb comment, realy.

And you are an Moderator. Pathetic.

Joined:
Apr 14, 2013

 

[twincast]

And the best part about was the entire NEJ series played it straight with her (around 20 something books). They didn't turn her into a Sith or anything. She even had a heroic death.　(And then in the Legacy of the Force series she was retconned as a Palpatine apprentice that supposed to take Darth Maul place, but she betrayed him and had to run. Thus destroying everything what was cool about Vergere)　

Well, the NJO series is nothing if not the prime example of what happened when the EU got ambitious with nuance and ambiguity, only to have it all turn to shreds (during and after the end of the series) once Lucas actually took a look at what he had approved. The world would be a better place if ol' Georgie Boy had consistently staid out of Star Wars after RotJ instead of randomly dropping in, leaving nothing but turds in his wake.

 

[eremita]

It's just a concept. Concepts are not inherently right or wrong, only particular execution is right/wrong

If every execution of a concept is no better than that of its competitor it's wrong.

Jeez, fuck Bioware man. Their execution of that concept doesn't prove anything. I'm talking about moral ruleset system in general; you define what is rght/wrong/just/unjust etc. in your universe, therefore, you can always tell where your player stands. He/she always knows WHAT are they doing. Nothing needs to be dumb down. In ancient Greece and Middle Ages were defined 'truths' like these and again, that doesn't mean that any story set in era like those have to be shallow. One of the result is: player always knows what is going on.

Just think about that. For example, you can have plot where player could rebel against some ultimate power/god who represents this moral system or any kind of system. So fuck Obsidian and fuck Bioware and fuck you if you can't see behind them and their products. There is nothing wrong with this concept alone. There is nothing wrong with majority of Weekes's post...

You could have inner struggle of creature compelled to sow chaos and destruction without universal moral labels tacked onto it.

Other than coming bundled with the setting alignments don't bring anything to PS:T.

Nope. I already talked about this few weeks ago so I'm not gonna repeat it.

 

[Invictus]

Wow nice how a a thread about fucking Dragon Age the Third Turd in a series of increasingly shitty popamole Skyrim AND Witcher wannabe series turned into a shitposter delight about fucking Star Wars of all things and KOTOR?
You cant make this shit up
Moar!

 

[Tytus]

Wow nice how a a thread about fucking Dragon Age the Third Turd in a series of increasingly shitty popamole Skyrim AND Witcher wannabe series turned into a shitposter delight about fucking Star Wars of all things and KOTOR?
You cant make this shit up
Moar!

Joined: Nov 3, 2013

Welcome to the Codex, fucker.

 

[Invictus]

Nah I have been here lurking long before joining retarded little fuck, so if you think that how long you been in the Codex gives you some sort of moral high ground to piss on anybody your are sadly mistaken; if DraQ or any member with some relevance can do it is cool; you I have never read before so go back to you Star Wars extended universe bullshit and masturbate some more to metal bikini leia :D of all things to hold sacred you certainlty picked the easiest to ridocule you about
Gawd you made me lol with your candyass wannabe post kid

 

[Storyfag]

Srsly, metal bikini Leia?

You don't even know what you don't know

 

[Invictus]

Mmm now that is some tasty Legacy sith ass