Dragon Age Dragon Age: The Veilguard Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[NecroLord]

Aristocrat raping the city elves in Denerim. Gaming and entertainment went off the rails after 2012.

This a hundred percent.
The aristocrat who abducts your bride and the other elven women for some fun is so damn cringy and derpy.

 

[gurugeorge]

HOW THE FUCK did we go from that to TRANNIE EMPOWERMENT WEEK?

that's exactly HOW>

I even enjoyed DA:I

B..but.. I did. Oh my god, what have I done! Nooooooo.

Don't worry, you're not alone. I thought it was right on the cusp of the poz being absolutely unbearable while having 3-rd person action-ey gameplay that (on the hardest difficulty) actually worked pretty well in terms of pleasantness of use, well enough to pootle along with. The game was also nice enough visually that you had a sense of presence ("being there" in an adventure) quite often, and it actually picked up fairly well story-wise towards the end (though most here probably didn't get that far, having dropped it early in disgust ).

I think I said here a while ago that the DLC in the dwarven area actually has decently engaging combat that shows what the game as a whole could have been if they'd had that type of encounter design all the way through, or at least regularly woven throughout the game.

Even the classic BioWare games were always lumpy like that - you'd coast along in a general snooze, and then suddenly, usually in some relatively inconsequential part of the game world, the game would slap you with an encounter that showed they could actually design tough encounters if they put their minds to it (or somebody in their team could, anyway, they just weren't given the design position they should have had, or whatever).

 

[Fedora Master]

Aristocrat raping the city elves in Denerim. Gaming and entertainment went off the rails after 2012.

This a hundred percent.
The aristocrat who abducts your bride and the other elven women for some fun is so damn cringy and derpy.

No you see it's REALISTIC because Medieval tymes were bad and dirty and icky

 

[NecroLord]

No you see it's REALISTIC because Medieval tymes were bad and dirty and icky

*Cough* Game of Thrones *cough*.

 

[Camel]

No you see it's REALISTIC because Medieval tymes were bad and dirty and icky

*Cough* Game of Thrones *cough*.

Bioware was inspired a lot by ASOIAF actually when making DA:O, it came before the GoT. Gaider used the Red Wedding for the Cousland prologue and Hamburger Hepler was inspired by GRRM when writing about the dwarven backstabbing politics in Orzammar. Older game devs used to read good books unlike the modern ones.

 

[Ryzer]

ASOIAF : "good book" -> does not compute.

 

[Tyranicon]

I'm honestly surprised this series continues to have fans (enough to apparently demand more sequels) after basically faceplanting on every installment after DA:O.

The Templar vs Mage overarching plotline was one of the worst things to happen to the series, as it is essentially now the main narrative. We've seen it done so much better in other media (warhammer 40k's psykers, even goddamn Wheel of Time).

What I want is to explore the nature of the Maker, what happened to the Golden City, how it was corrupted and created the darkspawn. I want good, Tolkienesque worldbuilding and a solid ruleset to play a RPG in.

Not a cheap version of 40k's Warp and a "conflict" we've seen a thousand times over.

Solas is also cringy as a character and the setting's biggest loser. Makes sense, as he was introduced in DA:I.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'm honestly surprised this series continues to have fans (enough to apparently demand more sequels) after basically faceplanting on every installment after DA:O.

The Templar vs Mage overarching plotline was one of the worst things to happen to the series, as it is essentially now the main narrative. We've seen it done so much better in other media (warhammer 40k's psykers, even goddamn Wheel of Time).

What I want is to explore the nature of the Maker, what happened to the Golden City, how it was corrupted and created the darkspawn. I want good, Tolkienesque worldbuilding and a solid ruleset to play a RPG in.

Not a cheap version of 40k's Warp and a "conflict" we've seen a thousand times over.

Solas is also cringy as a character and the setting's biggest loser. Makes sense, as he was introduced in DA:I.

With the caveat that I've never played any of your games, I'd be curious to see what the cross-over audience between Biowhores and fans of your games. Maybe that'd be worth trying to write the type of smut they're into? You could float around on a barge made of money.

 

[Tyranicon]

With the caveat that I've never played any of your games, I'd be curious to see what the cross-over audience between Biowhores and fans of your games.

There should be some overlap, but for some reason (it's the whoremongering, isn't it?) I don't think modern Bioware's audience will like my games.

Maybe that'd be worth trying to write the type of smut they're into? You could float around on a barge made of money.

I shudder to think of the depravities that the 2022 DA fandom are into. Besides, if I wanted to float on money barges, I would've stayed at my day job instead of going into something as mercurial and bankruptcy-inducing as gamedev.

 

[A-Minish]

I'm honestly surprised this series continues to have fans (enough to apparently demand more sequels) after basically faceplanting on every installment after DA:O.

When folks here talk about a decay-inducing romance trend through RPGs, it is because they are absolutely right. I saw it firsthand as I shared the same space as the new Bioware fans, both IRL and online, for many years. I do not want to pass a harsh judgment upon those because most of them were not bad people at all but they were all weirdos in their own rights, one of them even turned into an uberwoke anti-white last I checked.

The first things 2 thirds of them started to talk about were the romances and the UwU-feelings/drama. Few spoke about the lore/politics and even fewer talked about the game mechanics. We are not the public anymore and their new public is not as small as some would think.
I dived into this abyss once again for your salvation. Look at the pictures ! Watch the decline of a community

This is their home.

NSFW : You are warned

Here lies the abyss

Now, do you understand better why Cullen's voice-actor overdosed on redpills ?

 

[NecroLord]

Now, do you understand better why Cullen's voice-actor overdosed on redpills ?

Greg Ellis.
He criticized cancel culture and the war on the nuclear family.
Also supported Trump.
Bioware being Bioware, they were absolutely furious about this.

 

[Incognito]

I dived into this abyss once again for your salvation. Look at the pictures ! Watch the decline of a community

Thank you for your service, sir.

 

[Sarathiour]

The first things 2 thirds of them started to talk about were the romances and the UwU-feelings/drama. Few spoke about the lore/politics and even fewer talked about the game mechanics. We are not the public anymore and their new public is not as small as some would think.

They always was a public for dating sims, which tend to be a genre enjoyed by weirdo to be honest. Bioware and the current thing just allowed them to come out of the wood and discuss the genre more openly, because that's now what dragon age is : fantasy soap opera background, which is only a pretext for the relationship game.
Can't really say I'm surprised to know that there is a decent-sized community of such people in celt baguette land .

 

[Nano]

I dived into this abyss once again for your salvation. Look at the pictures ! Watch the decline of a community

There's a popular mod turning a black character white and you think that's decline?

And to be honest the rest of that mod list is pretty tame.

 

[A-Minish]

There's a popular mod turning a black character white and you think that's decline?

And to be honest the rest of that mod list is pretty tame.

Well, giving Isabella her fair skin back is based indeed but I doubt it would be doable again today. Those last few years such things would warrant a ban from the site, and I am not jocking, see the modder who replaced a few LGBT flags by the american one in a Spider-man game recently or the Stellaris one where you could play as white humans which got removed after the usual suspects screeched loudly.

For example, it would certainly be interesting to creat a mod removing/modifying all fake diversity/quotas in Inquisition but I fear it might also attract a lot of hostilities, provoke a shitstorm and the creator ending up banned across a few mod-hosting sites very quickly.

But yes, the rest of the first pages stay pretty tame, nothing realy hardcore but that's not the point. Most popular mods are cosmetics mods, some of those people are very superficial. This is not a catastrophe in itself and you coud say the same about DAO to an extent though those type of mods were not as popular. This is the tip of iceberg and it is a trend, that is what I meant by posting those.

 

[Tyranicon]

When folks here talk about a decay-inducing romance trend through RPGs, it is because they are absolutely right.

Obviously I'm incredibly biased on this subject, so take my comments with a big dose of salt.

I don't think romances are necessarily bad for RPGs, but I think they are a symptom of the general decline in quality when it comes to games.

So personally I've made both games with romances and games without. In my experience, romances are a tool for writers to greatly flesh out characters in ways they can't normally. Yes, there is a school of thought in both writing and game design that characters should not overshadow other elements, but that's not my philosophy as characters offer you the greatest interactivity with a game world. Plus, sex and making those kind of emotional connections is an important part of the human experience.

On the other hand, romances are also a crutch for the talentless to slap on anything just to get money from simps. And bilking money from coomers is one of the easiest things to do as long as you have good art. That's why there's an entire industry of low-effort games based on good art and animation.

 

[NecroLord]

So personally I've made both games with romances and games without.

Were they really romances?
Or just you giving the player the chance to hit some fine ass?

 

[gurugeorge]

I can imagine romances being good if they're handled like the relationship between Harry and his buddy (not in the homo sense, but as an example of a subtle, real-feeling human interaction), or Harry and whatshername (there's a bit of sexual tension there), in Disco Elysium. (I never romanced the woman in the fishing village, but I should imagine it's good too, the wistful early flirtation seemed promising.)

If they're handled as rich, subtle, complex, human interactions, then good. The early romances in BG and BGII were good only to the extent that they seemed to promise that kind of fleshing-out (ahem) of virtual worlds in the future. But in the BioWare games and in others, they've since devolved to a kind of shallow formulaic box-ticking exercise, which might as well not be there, and is just an excuse for degenerate shipping and fanfic.

Disco Elysium is now the gold standard for the exploration of relationships in games, I feel - the richness and sense of reality is the best yet done in any game, and really enhances the game experience. (I guess there are fragments of similar things in other games, but as I said, most of the time relationships are handled in a formulaic way, as are the actual characterizations - the cheeky female thief, the grumpy warrior, etc.)

 

[Semiurge]

I dived into this abyss once again for your salvation. Look at the pictures ! Watch the decline of a community

There's a popular mod turning a black character white and you think that's decline?

And to be honest the rest of that mod list is pretty tame.

That "unique facial textures for companions" mod I'd gladly use. Nearly all are improvements over the original mugs.

Then there's shit like this:

I guess the male sex doll is Hawke. The one on the right.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I can imagine romances being good if they're handled like the relationship between Harry and his buddy (not in the homo sense, but as an example of a subtle, real-feeling human interaction), or Harry and whatshername (there's a bit of sexual tension there), in Disco Elysium. (I never romanced the woman in the fishing village, but I should imagine it's good too, the wistful early flirtation seemed promising.)

 

[AwesomeButton]

Everyone past a certain mental age can tell you that "romances" as a discrete form of character interaction are already falling into cringe just because they have been made into a formulaic relationship, which means the player comes with an expectation for a development and an ending. Preferrably a "happy ending".

The real trick is for the writer to learn to write in such a way that the player's relationships with NPCs are engaging and authentic without following a formula. But ofc this requires actual talent, and that comes rare in mass-produced videogames.

 

[Lodis]

Bioware romances were always a meme. The only tolerable is Bastilla only because her relationship with Revan is one of the pivotal driving force of the entire plot. But even then it follows the same Bioware format of talking to her after every mission and picking the right dialogue options until she finally gives in.

Shout out to Jade Empire though where you can have a threesome with your childhood friend and the princess who also turn out to be cousins. It was blatant wish fulfillment and Bioware knew that and didn't give a fuck.

 

[Sarathiour]

Shout out to Jade Empire though where you can have a threesome with your childhood friend and the princess who also turn out to be cousins. It was blatant wish fulfillment

Yes, and ?

 

[Lodis]

Shout out to Jade Empire though where you can have a threesome with your childhood friend and the princess who also turn out to be cousins. It was blatant wish fulfillment

Yes, and ?

That’s the best part.

 

[NecroLord]

I think Kotor 2 handles romance perfectly.
It is a more platonic, unrequited love.