Dying Light 2 Stay Human - zombie survival with choice & consequence

[Yosharian]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/feargus-urquharts-talk-at-digital-dragons-2016.109098/

• Feargus also regrets splitting the Pillars of Eternity: The White March expansion pack into two halves. He says the full expansion took about three months longer to finish than originally planned, an additional 500,000 dollars in development costs. The delay was both due to complications caused by the split and due to a failure to account for the manpower required to support the base game.
• Feargus says that the White March expansion wasn't priced competitively - people would rather buy an AAA game on sale for $10 than an expansion pack for $15 or $25. Future Eternity games will use a Fallout: New Vegas-like DLC model, with more, smaller and cheaper releases.

People didn't buy Deadfire expansions because the game is ass

 

[typical user]

Eh, using guns in DL1 was fine. Enough zeds meant burning through ammo very fast + the noise would draw dozen virals. On Nightmare mode guns are weak against even standard enemies.

Guns were clunky to use thanks to those weird animations and muzzle flash. Removing ammo from vendors and reducing their spawn rate in the world would make them even more OK. Maybe even make them lose durability just like with melee sticks.

Sounds weird if they cut them out of DL2, they already have figured them out, just needed some minor polishing.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Guns ruin melee-oriented combat games. They ruined Dying Light 1, that Jet Li PlayStation 2 game where you used the stick to pull off martial arts moves and Sleeping Dogs. Good riddance.

Condemned and The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay disagrees.

 

[Ibn Sina]

The game's entire setting is retarded. Losing knowledge on how to make gunpowder after 25 years of so called social collapse? Retards wrote this game.

To be fair, modern ammunition with smokeless gunpowder is reliant on a very complex supply chain that wouldn't be easy to maintain in the event of a near-total collapse of civilization.

Most post-apocalyptic settings tend to treat guns as rare artifacts of a lost age, when in fact the procurement and production of guns wouldn't be much of an issue.

Modern cars, appliances, buildings et al are full of metals and alloys that could be scavenged and used to make guns, - the issue would be the manufacture of bullets. Modern armies spend a lot of money and energy on the conservation of ammunition, since the ammo needs to be stored in a controlled environment and periodically rotated to ensure the propellant is evenly distributed. What this means it that soon after the post-apocalypse a lot of unused ammo languishing in storage would become useless.

As for the manufacture of new ammo, you would need brass to ensure a tight seal and minimize damage to the internals of a gun, but you can make things work with other metals - it has been done before. The biggest issue is going to the gunpowder. You can make black gunpowder easily enough if you have access to the raw materials, but when used it creates a lot of smoke and fouls the gun very quickly, and there's also the issue of load tolerances. If you load too little gunpowder there's a chance firing the bullet will not generate enough energy to cycle the gun mechanism properly, put in too much and you risk the gun blowing in your face.

This is an even bigger issue with fully automatic weapons that require very precise grain loads to keep working without jamming - so while making a full-auto SMG with redneck engineering is easy enough, actually producing ammo that lets you reliably fire it in full auto is not.

The first game's combat was trivialized by the introduction of guns: from a competent 1st person parkour + melee combination the game became a mediocre fps.

They could have circumvented the issue easily enough by handling it in a similar fashion as the Metro games - full-auto guns require rare and expensive per-collapse ammo, while contemporary guns are all semi-auto, loud, create a lot of smoke and are unreliable.

Dude, people fashion IEDs and other type of pipe explosives and weaponry from kitchen supplies. Dozens of piss poor insurgent and terrorist groups fashion that shit out of nothing. It's really not that hard or requires extensive engineering degrees. Hell you can even fashion rudimentary rockets and artillery if you have enough salvage. Gunpowder knowledge has been available from the 12th century. It's like claiming people lost knowledge of agriculture.

 

[Harthwain]

Dude, people fashion IEDs and other type of pipe explosives and weaponry from kitchen supplies. Dozens of piss poor insurgent and terrorist groups fashion that shit out of nothing. It's really not that hard or requires extensive engineering degrees. Hell you can even fashion rudimentary rockets and artillery if you have enough salvage. Gunpowder knowledge has been available from the 12th century. It's like claiming people lost knowledge of agriculture.

I see you're a man of culture. Certain culture.

Spoiler

 

[vota DC]

The game's entire setting is retarded. Losing knowledge on how to make gunpowder after 25 years of so called social collapse? Retards wrote this game.

To be fair, modern ammunition with smokeless gunpowder is reliant on a very complex supply chain that wouldn't be easy to maintain in the event of a near-total collapse of civilization.

Most post-apocalyptic settings tend to treat guns as rare artifacts of a lost age, when in fact the procurement and production of guns wouldn't be much of an issue.

Modern cars, appliances, buildings et al are full of metals and alloys that could be scavenged and used to make guns, - the issue would be the manufacture of bullets. Modern armies spend a lot of money and energy on the conservation of ammunition, since the ammo needs to be stored in a controlled environment and periodically rotated to ensure the propellant is evenly distributed. What this means it that soon after the post-apocalypse a lot of unused ammo languishing in storage would become useless.

As for the manufacture of new ammo, you would need brass to ensure a tight seal and minimize damage to the internals of a gun, but you can make things work with other metals - it has been done before. The biggest issue is going to the gunpowder. You can make black gunpowder easily enough if you have access to the raw materials, but when used it creates a lot of smoke and fouls the gun very quickly, and there's also the issue of load tolerances. If you load too little gunpowder there's a chance firing the bullet will not generate enough energy to cycle the gun mechanism properly, put in too much and you risk the gun blowing in your face.

This is an even bigger issue with fully automatic weapons that require very precise grain loads to keep working without jamming - so while making a full-auto SMG with redneck engineering is easy enough, actually producing ammo that lets you reliably fire it in full auto is not.

The first game's combat was trivialized by the introduction of guns: from a competent 1st person parkour + melee combination the game became a mediocre fps.

They could have circumvented the issue easily enough by handling it in a similar fashion as the Metro games - full-auto guns require rare and expensive per-collapse ammo, while contemporary guns are all semi-auto, loud, create a lot of smoke and are unreliable.

Dude, people fashion IEDs and other type of pipe explosives and weaponry from kitchen supplies. Dozens of piss poor insurgent and terrorist groups fashion that shit out of nothing. It's really not that hard or requires extensive engineering degrees. Hell you can even fashion rudimentary rockets and artillery if you have enough salvage. Gunpowder knowledge has been available from the 12th century. It's like claiming people lost knowledge of agriculture.

If survivors are like CHOP of Seattle It Is possible. But they need aliens to feed them or they will starve.

 

[Justicar]

Dude, people fashion IEDs and other type of pipe explosives and weaponry from kitchen supplies. Dozens of piss poor insurgent and terrorist groups fashion that shit out of nothing. It's really not that hard or requires extensive engineering degrees. Hell you can even fashion rudimentary rockets and artillery if you have enough salvage. Gunpowder knowledge has been available from the 12th century. It's like claiming people lost knowledge of agriculture.

Nigger try asking randoms on the streets if they know how to make gunpowder 99% of them wont know shit also internet is down in post apocalyptic world so you cant just google this shit and the same npcs from the streets wont have any chemistry books in their homes. Add to that the fact that after the colapse of society many scientist and soldiers who have this knowledge will be dead and it's not hard to undestand that guns will be pretty rare 20 YEARS AFTER COLLAPSE OF SOCIETY. Escpecially since the whole interconnected industry that manufactures guns and ammo will be gone due to death of skilled workers, looting of factories and collapse of supply chains. I wonder how your 3rd world shitholers would make their ieds if whole industry that manufactures those kitches supplies would be gone?

 

[agris]

The GaS model is the reason why there's not big, meaty expansions anymore, only shitty 3 hours long 15$ DLCs or shitty free cosmetics to make it look like you're doing something

Expansion packs were an inefficient product of their time that made sense when everything was physical, not so much now when everything's downloaded and a bunch of games are competing for storage space.

I’m curious if you have any data or opinions of industry vets to support this. I read the shift from XPacs to DLC differently; with the move to digital distribution and tracking of players via achievements, companies realized that most people don’t beat games and the effort that used to go into a single $20 expansion could be further monetized by using the same net amount of effort to release 2-5 DLCs costing $5-15 each.

maybe I agree with your take if, by efficiency, you mean “does not maximize revenue for fixed cost to develop”. But then, if that’s your take, you’re kinda burying the important part - cynical exploitation of the consumer base enabled by online tracking.

 

[Roguey]

I’m curious if you have any data or opinions of industry vets to support this. I read the shift from XPacs to DLC differently; with the move to digital distribution and tracking of players via achievements, companies realized that most people don’t beat games and the effort that used to go into a single $20 expansion could be further monetized by using the same net amount of effort to release 2-5 DLCs costing $5-15 each.

I already posted Feargus Urquhart's thoughts on the matter. The White March was a mid-game expansion, didn't matter.

 

[agris]

Roguey yeah I read that after I posted, but I don’t see how that supports your broad statement. Feargus’s statements really reflect the narrow reality of the specific circumstances of OE’s mismanagement of the pillows 1 expansion. Is that all you have?

 

[1451]

In the first game I only used guns in closed buildings when fighting against humans.
Never in the open world.
It sucks that they removed them for realism's sake.
What realism could exist in a game about zombies?

 

[ADL]

 

[Ryzer]

Taken from their website.

We understand gamers
There'd be no games without gamers. That's why we listen to you and encourage you to talk. Our goal is to create experiences together with gamers

 

[Lord_Potato]

So that's why Dying Light 2 is not coming to GOG.

 

[Justicar]

Taken from their website.

We understand gamers
There'd be no games without gamers. That's why we listen to you and encourage you to talk. Our goal is to create experiences together with gamers

They understand gaymers are retarted.

https://store.steampowered.com/search/?os=win&filter=globaltopsellers

That's why dying light 2 is sitting as the top seller on steam for the last 10 days.

 

[Ryzer]

 

[Alienman]

She has destroy the patriarchy written all over her face.

 

[JDR13]

I don't really care if it has guns or not. If it can match the atmosphere of DL1, it'll be good.

 

[Justicar]

 

[Alphons]

Will there be consequences for choosing Denuvo?

 

[Lord_Potato]

Will there be consequences for choosing Denuvo?

Hopefully.

 

[Salvo]

negro + mystery meat / danger hair combo let's fucking goooooooooo

 

[Tyranicon]

Oh boy, another plucky gang of misfits vs an authoritarian bad faction!

 

[ADL]

Reviews dropped today and a lot of people are getting their copies early in the mail too. tl;dr - like the first game you'll love the second one, protagonist is generic and the game is buggy as hell.
"By the time a weapon finally broke on me it had already become too low-level to be useful."
https://opencritic.com/game/12340/dying-light-2-stay-human/

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Shit? Good?