Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by HoboForEternity, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Lutte Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Lutte
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    973
    I don't see the point of trying to make a dichotomy between the two scenes as if consoles were something that can't be arcade. Arcade ports and homegrown arcade-style games were a mainstay argument in favor of Sega's consoles (genesis, saturn, dreamcast), games like Streets of Rage which were console-only were heavily influenced by the ethos of arcade gaming, and by the time we're talking about, when the Xbox 360 came out, the world of arcade was beyond dead and most sales for arcade style games came from consoles because nobody went out to play arcade games on actual arcades anymore. CAVE's swansong, Saidaioujou, was released in such a tiny number of actual arcade machines, that its PCB is one of the most expensive for the genre, commands batshit insane prices and that is when you actually find one person willing to sell it to you, which is a rarity in itself.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Lutte Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Lutte
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    973
    I didn't play Eternal but the example you mention feels like a doom 2 moment. Probably less actually violent than when you get swarmed by chaingunners.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,182
    Location:
    The Swamp
    Those games were great for their time.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,387
    Location:
    Hyperborea
    When DeS came out, Uncharted 2 was considered the height of current game design. To the rabble, it was near blasphemy that the former got any GoTY consideration over or even next to the latter. DeS was considered retrograde, like an echo from the PS2 generation. Uncharted was the cutting edge. I think a percentage of ethnic pride was involved. Game rags loved to claim that Japan was washed up. And maybe they were at the time, but the west wasn't blowing my skirt up either with mechanically thin design, and we had to suffer numerous series and genres receiving lobotomies.

    Culture is a series of reactions. Things go too far one way and are met with opposing force that either pushes things the other way or creates a balance, even if only somewhat. The rise of Souls influence coincides with that of the independent scene. And consider the surprising onslaught of roguelike and survival game elements the past decade. There was a dormant desire for more consequential fare and possibly fatigue or boredom with safety-net design of the AAA sphere.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    44,920
    Did they really make it into a west vs east issue lmao. The west has been "washed up" since the early 2000s and hasn't recovered yet, and probably never will with SJWs giving gaming the killing blow after publishers fucked the hobby up for over a decade.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Lutte Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Lutte
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    973
    The state of the western gaming industry in a nutshell
    :
    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...hinson-game-journalists-exhibit-subtle-racism
    Btw it's so funny to see such a focus on the storytelling part and not which of the two games they mention (which have nothing to do with each other, genre wise. Seriously, popamole shooter versus spectacle fighter?) is more fun to play.

    Alex is right, in a way. I'm very racist and allergic against eurotrash games.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    Oneoropolis
    This "creative director of Assassin's Creed 3" sounds retarded.
    I don't know what the fuck Bayonetta is, but Miyazaki's work is clearly superior to any of Assassin's Creed.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    ^ Top  
  8. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    44,920
    I think the hilarious part is that he is talking about an issue that affects western games as well for starters, but also his own series since gaming journalists fawn over the writing of the Ass Creed series despite being a pile of shit. I mean, look at how much noise they made about The Last Of Us (the original, let's ignore the ludicrous sequel for a second), which has TV level writing at best. Those are the great masterpieces of western gaming writing as far as journalists are concerned, so to complain that they masturbate over shit Japanese writing is a bit hypocritical.

    I would also argue that he probably doesn't understand that the eastern mindset always takes more of a "negative" attitude, and that the essence of their writing doesn't lie in the actual plot and characterizations or anything pertaining to the more visible and external elements but it's more about symbols and archetypes. That was the case even with Kurosawa.

    Lastly, acting like you are tough shit in a medium like video games is ludicrous since even the best written game is only "average" compared to actual literature or a real great movie. If a game writer could actually produce something that would be fit for a quality book they wouldn't be writing for video games. Most of the time we understand that a game has good writing as far as video games go, and that applies to Torment as much as anything from Japan. I mean i love Avellone and what he did but come on, it's not like you can put him next to Martin, just to drive the point home.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    14,667
    Location:
    Kingdom of Bohemia
    Comparing Western vs. Jap writing is like comparing dog shit and cat piss. I mean do we really wanna argue about what smells worse?
     
    • Yes Yes x 1
    • Balanced Balanced x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    44,920
    He looks like someone who could actually benefit from going on an all American diet:

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    • NPC #61873 came up with this opinion all by his / herself NPC #61873 came up with this opinion all by his / herself x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. MajorMace Arbiter

    MajorMace
    Joined:
    May 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,249
    Location:
    Souffrance, Franka
    In order to understand the western game designer/director, you first need to understand that the pinnacle of creativity for them is to make your game as cinematic as possible.
    Therefore, David Cage can be presented as a genius, and not the fucking fraud he is.
    Uncharted 2 had this absolutely iconic moment of gameplay, where the hero was trying to run for his life while a big truck was rushing towards him downhill. Gameplay-wise, I remember that you had to hold down the directional stick during a minute.
    Dark Souls barely has any cinematic feel, and is therefore an old relic from times ancient.

    That's pretty much how people like this dude actually think. And how they see this medium. That is, by being apparently absolutely fucking blind to the speficity of the medium they're supposed to work with, and therefore relying mostly on another medium's old gimmicks.
    They're frauds, and they're completely oblivious as to why, which is both annoying and tragic.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 5
    ^ Top  
  12. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    14,667
    Location:
    Kingdom of Bohemia
    Something like this, yeah. I'd use a different word, "art" instead of "creativity".

    It's something Alannah Pierce pointed out - journos tend to put cinematic games on the piedestal because they see them as "higher art". In this view the difference between TLoU2 and FTL is like the difference between 12 Years a Slave and the first Shrek. Shrek is an infinitely better movie (just like FTL is an infinitely better game) but it's animated plus a comedy so it could never win the same critical acclaim, let alone an Oscar, because films like 12 Years a Slave are considered more artistic, more "valuable".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    44,920
    Worth pointing out that many of the great western games of the 90s weren't particularly cinematic, and that wasn't just because of technical limitations.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    14,667
    Location:
    Kingdom of Bohemia
    Sure but sometimes I can't help but thinking if stuff like Fallout, Lands of Lore, Prince of Persia, various Sierra or LucasArts games and others were made today they would cinematic the fuck out of them.
     
    • Despair Despair x 3
    ^ Top  
  15. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    44,920
    I don't know, i think people in general were just smarter then i doubt they would have failed to understand that games are an interactive medium and that you can't actually turn them into movies, even if they had the technical means to do so.

    With that said, they are trying to turn the old classics into movies NOW lmao:



    How much do you think it would cost to hire someone to kill the dirty motherfucker who ruined the graphics with that shitty filter?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
    • gimme dem dolla bills gimme dem dolla bills x 1
    • Deus Vult Deus Vult x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. Momock Savant

    Momock
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    480
    It should be a public community service...
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Jedi Master Radek Arcane

    Jedi Master Radek
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,214
    Haven't played Gears of War, but Bayonetta is well written. It's very over the top, it's B-movie style of storytelling upped to eleven. It would never be released in the West, because western developers are obsessed with realism and Bayonetta doesn't give a fuck about realism. Bayonetta is gloriously immature. There is a wild energy to it.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,387
    Location:
    Hyperborea
    Seemed like the success of the X360 emboldened people to celebrate big budget western mediocrity at the expense of what came before or from overseas. Oblivion is objectively a sloppy game, but in its wake JRPGs, which journos thoroughly sucked off in previous generations, were now so much outdated detritus. It was deemed an improvement on Morrowind in every way as well. It was the first major salvo in the Age of Decline, afaic. It seemed nearly every major western AAA was a great leap forward for its series and or genre. I don't doubt if Thi4f released during this time, journos would have claimed it best in the series, and Thief 1 and 2 would have been dismissed as "archaic," one of their favorite words back then. And since a lot of people are followers without conviction or analytical ability, you heard the same exact terms and sentiments all over forums.

    Granted , the constant fellating of certain Japanese games prior was also annoying, but overall for much of the 360 generation it really was the darkest timeline.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    44,920
    I think we can all agree those corporate backed bloggers, i mean, gaming journalists should get the rope.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Yes Yes x 2
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Edgy Edgy x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    14,667
    Location:
    Kingdom of Bohemia
    You can't be "gloriously" immature if immaturity is all you can do. There is no admirable intent behind the immaturity of Jap games, they just can't do anything else.

    I've never ever seen anything truly mature and serious and realistic from Japanese developers, something on the level of Kingdom Come or RDR2. The closest they could get is stuff like MGS V or Dark Souls but even those games can't help themselves but slide into goofiness and silliness (or total retardedness, in the case of MGS).

    If the Japs made Ghost of Tsushima they would stuff it with demons and giant robots, I guarantee you. They just don't know any better anymore. They have to rely with Kurosawa tributes on others.
     
    • retadred retadred x 5
    ^ Top  
  21. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    Oneoropolis
    The Matrix is actually Ghost in the Shell + Lain stripped of all interesting ideas.

    Have a nice day.
     
    • Salute Salute x 1
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    Oneoropolis
    Or you can always compare Ringu the book (which is like Horror version of Matrix) with very stylish but shaloow western The Ring from Caribbean pirates director lol.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    Oneoropolis
    It is not just the gap but the Abyss between American and Japanese understanding of art. Even in such childish form as videogame.
     
    ^ Top  
  24. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    14,667
    Location:
    Kingdom of Bohemia
    Dude, what are you prattling about? We're not talking about films or books. And even if we were saying Ghost in the Shell is basically Matrix is retarded.
     
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    Oneoropolis
    Nevermind I'm just shitposting.
    I could never into jRPGs anyway.
     
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.