Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,189
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Anyone else experimenting with NORMAL weapons and ashes? I get the feeling the likes of Moonveil/Rivers of Blood/Blasphemous etc will get nerfed into the ground and then regular weapons will get a chance to shine. IMO they will be much harder to balance due to greater variance. Any REGULAR ashes you people enjoy? Other than bloodhound and seppuku that is.

Waves of Darkness were rather fun when fighting Greatjar's Knights. Or in general. It ticks like 4 times in aoe around you, dealing decent-ish damage, but more importantly, staggering targets around you those 4 times. Nice to catch enemies off-guard.

Chilling Mist might be decent, it deals nice damage and builds Frosbite - while not being as broken as Hoarfrost (pre-nerf).

Flame of the Redmanes is supposed to deal heavy poise-damage along serious damage - I intend to try it out next.
 

Lutte

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
1,969
Location
DU's mom
Waves of Darkness were rather fun when fighting Greatjar's Knights. Or in general. It ticks like 4 times in aoe around you, dealing decent-ish damage, but more importantly, staggering targets around you those 4 times. Nice to catch enemies off-guard.


Yeah, it has a lot of value.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,818
Fuck weapon arts. This series began with grounded physics and combat and if anything the decline began with DS3 and its weapon arts. The only weapon arts that should exist are called "weapon movesets" including the shield kicks, ripostes and flowery scimitar dodge of old. Go back to DS2 and re-increment from there, give me more fundamental moves tied to weapons categories - shoulder pushes, sidesteps, flurries, etc and make enemies interact accordingly. Give enemies (hidden) stamina bars and make rolls stamina ineffective or better yet, swap it entirely for a realistic quickstep dodge with little to no i-frames, etc, etc, etc.

Otherwise this shit can die in a fire for all I care.
I like pre-DS3 gameplay more too, but at this point Fromsoft aren't gonna "downgrade" their combat system. It'll probaby get more and more anime with each new game.
 

Lutte

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
1,969
Location
DU's mom
It's not just the combat system, I'm not fond of most armors in this game either. Too ornate and excessive. This game also seems to have more of the weird weapons than usual. Blasphemous Blade is such a good greatsword in terms of power, but man.. it's butt ugly aff.
 

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,786
Location
Poland
It's not just the combat system, I'm not fond of most armors in this game either. Too ornate and excessive. This game also seems to have more of the weird weapons than usual. Blasphemous Blade is such a good greatsword in terms of power, but man.. it's butt ugly aff.

it's called Blasphemous Blade, it would be weird if it was clean and pretty :|
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,189
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
by "allowing us to have multiple weapon arts" i didn't mean "having multiple cancerous anime abilities", but rather having a customizable moveset. Sort of like in Dragon's Dogma, where you could put special abilities in specific slots.

Yes, exactly!

Sort of like in Dragon's Dogma, where you could put special abilities in specific slots.
weapon arts aren't necessary anime.

Uh... now... did we play the same game?
I mean, I love Dragon's Dogma and the skills thee might now be quite as cancerous as ER lazor beamz light shows but... Rain of Arrows, Dragon's Maw, Magick Cannon, Arc of Obliteration and such are.... not at all what I had in mind.

Something like Giant Hunt, Stomp perhaps...
 
Last edited:

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,539
Too ornate and excessive
For me the problem is that they are ornate in all the wrong ways. Most armors are made around having a cloak or some other physics object tied to it which can look cool in some instances but most of the time you can tell its not exactly on point. But removing said cloak destroys the armors aesthetic sometimes into something entirely different. Blaidd's armor is the worst example where the cloaked version easily can get into the top 10 best looking armors but without it its just like a shitty hollow's vest.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,179
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Flame of the Redmanes is supposed to deal heavy poise-damage along serious damage - I intend to try it out next.
That fucking thing is totes broken, the poise damage is absurd, you can down most mobs and even bosses for a riposte in two fucking hits. It's gonna get nerfed 100%.
 

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,786
Location
Poland
b5utfvf4qir81.jpg
 

Kjaska

Arbeiter
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
1,493
Location
Germoney
Insert Title Here
This is kinda wrong. I mean, you won't be able to wield the top end of stat req of other weapon categories, but most armament types have a few armaments that don't have high requirements in their core stat and can be attuned to have decent scaling to whatever other stat you're using - arcane, faith, or int.

For people who are STR only or DEX only, there tends to be a scant few weapons of the opposite kind that can scale. For example, most katanas are dex weapons, but one scales with strength. Most blunt weapons are a str affair, but flails lean dex.
I was talking in terms of value as a drop/find. Even if I can equip this new Seal as a STR build, will I care about finding it? I'm fairly certain most people tend to build either around what is the most powerful or an aesthetic archetype (katana weeb). If a DEX samurai find a flail which also scales with DEX, is he gonna be excited about it?

Err, Moonveil is one of the more obvious of the powerful weapons, but if you look at my posting history you'll see there's many more over the top setups in this game, many of which are stronger than moonveil.
Yes, I found a better setup as well, but it wasn't necessary for a long long time with Moonveil.

Plate armor looks the same on a man and a woman you know. Boobplates aren't a real thing, do you have any idea how much cloth padding you must wear underneath a set of plate? Besides protection you from abrasion while moving with plate, padding also adds (moderate) protection against hard hits, plate protects you from cuts, but not from the force of being hammered.
ER has a reasonable amount of gender specific things where it makes sense, like clothing.
This is a video game set in an over-the-top fantasy world(with Aliens!). Dragons are also not a real thing. Do you have any idea how much padding you must wear to survive a tail swipe from a dragon? What is going to happen to your shield arm, when you block a hit from a giant? My point here is about the effort or lack-there-of that was put into the sets. FroSo just didn't want to make a 2nd variant for every set they have. They didn't even want to make most sets, unless those are also used as a model for an enemy. Maybe this is the price I have to pay for not having any micro-transaction or battle passes in the game. It's still a negative in my eyes, especially when comparing it to other titles. Why even go to the trouble of implementing a character creator at all, if all I am going to see is the same model as the Crucible Knight enemy?

Ah, you've revealed your true motivator!
Not sure if I missed the part where you talk about them, but talismans are among the sort of items I was very happy to find most of the time. They can be build defining with the right combinations of talismans.
Yeah, I forgot to mention the Talismans. My text ended up just like my playthrough - by the end I just wanted to get it over with - so I left a couple of things out.
Talismans are where they put all the actual interesting effects on. At least some of them do. Many Talismans are still just boring +5 Stat or 5/10/15% more of X. I ended up changing my Talismans around much more than any other of my equipment slots. I think relegating all the interesting effects onto a non-descript slot like that is also a cop-out. I think the classic character doll model with rings, amulets, belts etc is superior for role-playing and itemization purposes.

Talismans provide you with 0 visual feedback on the changes that you make as well. It's so much more satisfying to boost your Spells by equipping one of the Raya Lucaria Glintstone Helmets compared to a +5 Int Talisman. My suspicion is that FroSo probably wanted to do this more, seeing how Limgrave and Liurnia are the zones where the most effort was concentrated in, but eventually cut their ambitions down as the work mounted.

The levelling system defines the sort of things you can wield. If you want to be good at sorceries you won't be good at incantations (well, you could be good at both but it would require farming way too many levels). A dex arcane build will never be good at wielding a colossal sword. Etc.
Isn't this just a negative then? The leveling system decentivizes you from experimenting with other builds, the way you're putting it. Yes, I was dealing a lot of damage later in the game, but the HP bloat (1,2k HP rats lmao) does balance it out.
 

Lutte

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
1,969
Location
DU's mom
I was talking in terms of value as a drop/find. Even if I can equip this new Seal as a STR build, will I care about finding it? I'm fairly certain most people tend to build either around what is the most powerful or an aesthetic archetype (katana weeb). If a DEX samurai find a flail which also scales with DEX, is he gonna be excited about it?
I was. It's quite exciting to bash enemies resistant to slash damage with it.

This is a video game set in an over-the-top fantasy world(with Aliens!). Dragons are also not a real thing. Do you have any idea how much padding you must wear to survive a tail swipe from a dragon? What is going to happen to your shield arm, when you block a hit from a giant?

I don't think "it's fantasy" is always an excuse to include any and everything. There's always a balance between the fantastic and the grounded to be found for immersion. Think the reaction to Battlefield 5. BF games were never "simulations" of what a war looks like, people know it, but they felt immersed in it.. but when you include a cripple fighting with her prosthetics on the battlefields of 1940 the immersion breaks.
Also, fantasy elements aren't as fantastic when they are too common. The world should be mysterious and unique, not your character. The dragons are cool because they're rare, powerful, and you're not a dragon. The more grounded the character feels, the more you feel immersed in the struggle against the greater odds of the strange creatures that inhabit a world.

My point here is about the effort or lack-there-of that was put into the sets. FroSo just didn't want to make a 2nd variant for every set they have. They didn't even want to make most sets, unless those are also used as a model for an enemy. Maybe this is the price I have to pay for not having any micro-transaction or battle passes in the game. It's still a negative in my eyes, especially when comparing it to other titles. Why even go to the trouble of implementing a character creator at all, if all I am going to see is the same model as the Crucible Knight enemy?

I respect your opinion, but it's not really something that annoys me. From Soft always made their games as cheap as they could, it's well known, and it hasn't changed with ER for sure. As cheap as they could doesn't mean look cheap, though, the art is great, but using the other characters and enemies armor for your own character is one of the many ways they manage to be cheap. The other is how much they reuse animations, and their cutscene cameras tricks and reluctance to do things like animate the mouth of characters speaking. After 5 soulsbornes, it shouldn't come as surprise to anyone that ER still follows this development style. No matter how many copies they sell of their games, they will not expand into a true AAA studio in terms of methodology.

Isn't this just a negative then? The leveling system decentivizes you from experimenting with other builds, the way you're putting it.

Experimeting is what the respec is for. It's limited in amount but imho there's well enough for a single playthrough.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,105
> i want to try a lvl 1 run
> i want to try low lvl pvp or coop
> take wrench
> i go get Radagon scarseal (+5 for all attributes)
> i go get zweihander
> upgrade to +3
> nobody summons me
> at least I beat Margit at lvl 1
> world is boring
> i don't want to level up but i want coop
> fml
 
Last edited:

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,786
Location
Poland
> i want to try a lvl 1 run
> i want to try low lvl pvp or coop
> take wrench
> i go get Radagon scarseal (+5 for all attributes)
> i got get zweihander
> upgrade to +3
> nobody summons me
> at least I beat Margit at lvl 1
> world is boring
> i don't want to level up but i want coop
> fml

Yea, playing in co-op is much funnier than solo except when you get invaded by some twink and everyone gets slapped around
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,500
Location
California
the new Gervais video is making me itch to start a 2nd playthrough....must wait for DLC/performance patch
:shredder:
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
Playing coop is the way I like to play these games since there is not that much to do.
How are you confused? All you do in Souls games is kill shit and trigger quests.
 
Last edited:

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
15,715
Location
Dutchland
Honestly I never got the issue people have with Farron Legion, the Princes and Friede. Juggle the first Legionnaire, play defensively when the second shows up, then once the third joins go back to bonking the first. Princes is just a case of being able to roll proplery, and Friede shouldn't be fought just because you can at that point. Nameless King is a bit harder for me, but if I do what I do with Friede it's alright. Soul of Cinder isn't even that hard, and Demon Princes is just a matter of keeping an eye on one while you bonk the other.

Also lmao at Aldia being hard. Just don't stand in the fire and run to dodge his attacks.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,179
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
So I reinstalled Sekiro and it's a perfect palate cleanser after 150 hours of ER base game, 10 hours item grind and 10 hours of various coop fun.

Tight, tense, brilliantly engineered and managed. The level design is still not very satisfying and most itemization still feels superfluous but I'm having a blast.

I'd love nothing more than Sekiro 2. Just stop trying to be an RPG light, toss out the redundant fat like most skills and most prosthetics upgrades and inject the level design with a giant dose of Elden Ring legacy dungeons. A dream come true.
 

Artyoan

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
653
All souls games, from Demon's to Dark souls 3 changed and balanced the player's character mobility and capabilities. It's not like they are throwing you at a pitt with crazy bosses. Enemies are fast and have extense movelists in Bloodborne and Dark souls 3, but your character is balanced around that (mid rolling has a lot of i-frames, it costs very little stamina, etc). In Elden ring your character still very strong, I would say that it has even more i-frames during the rolling animation. The thing is, they went apeshit designing the major bosses of the game. They always have some bullshit that feels unfair, unblockable, undodgeable. That never happened in previous games. I've just reached Malenia and man, what a way of spoiling a pottentialy great boss with that shitty flurry rush move (The health regen is an interesting mechanic by itself, there's no need for more).

I can't believe they went from Sekiro, which has extremely polished 1 vs 1 fights to this. They fucked up so much the balance in Elden ring. My main issue with the game right now.

I'm a little surprised they didn't translate more of Sekiro's combat to Elden Ring. Something equivalent to Mikilri counter. A boss that suddenly glows some specific color and then the player needs to know to jump, perfect block, or mikiri counter depending on the move but rolling won't work. They might have been able to make boss combat more varied throughout the game by forcing the player to react to a major move but allowing the player a great opportunity for a counter attack should they be successful. Especially if they integrated the counter attack into being a significant component of poise breaking. I also think seeing an enemy poise bar would be good.

Nope. QTEs are shit and they break the fight flow.

If your definition of QTE is that liberal than all of real time reactive combat is a QTE. Rolling to dodge a sword is a QTE.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom