From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Caim]

Ah yes, my favorite method to display days. In groups of hundreds.

 

[Andnjord]

I know that in the endgame one of the areas will undergo a big change, but at what exact moment does this change happen? When you do the thing before you get moved to the next area, or after you beat the boss in that area and you get moved back for the big reveal?

When you do the thing. But you don't have to do the thing if you're not ready yet. I delayed it for a long time my first time because of reasons.

Ehm, I'm pretty sure it's when you kill the boss...

 

[mediocrepoet]

I know that in the endgame one of the areas will undergo a big change, but at what exact moment does this change happen? When you do the thing before you get moved to the next area, or after you beat the boss in that area and you get moved back for the big reveal?

When you do the thing. But you don't have to do the thing if you're not ready yet. I delayed it for a long time my first time because of reasons.

Ehm, I'm pretty sure it's when you kill the boss...

Really? I could've sworn... but the wiki suggests you're right, it's after the boss. Silly me for expecting these things to make logical sense.

EDIT:

Spoiler

I guess it makes sense actually, both in that the tree takes time to burn down and there's that period where the flame background is over areas, but also because you need to fight Maliketh to release the rune of death in order to kill the Elden Beast, so if you could interact with Ashen Capital, you still wouldn't be able to finish the game without doing CFA, so it would be rather pointless.

 

[mediocrepoet]

This was kind of fun and interesting. It looks like this guy's channel has a few of these with voice actors if you're interested in this sort of thing.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

BTW, am i the only one who doesn't mind all the delayed attacks, roll catching shit and stuff like that?

Seems to me for a game that is basically based on dodging there isn't much else they can do to up the challenge for the player. No matter how wayward the move set is finger memory eventually always wins so i don't see it as much of a big deal as some people make it out to be.

Completely disagree with this. You are taking their most terrible design decision regarding combat - "for a game that is basically based on dodging" - and then excusing them because the rest of their bad decisions are caused by that initial bad decision? How about not making rolling the central combat mechanic? I mean that's how I am playing (with shield blocking), but obviously the traditional way is to play by rolling.

There is a reason why Dark Souls games are pretty much the only ones based on rolling. It looks stupid (watch any DaS/ER PvP video, people just rolling around like retards), it's highly unrealistic, and it rewards reflexes over actual skill or technique. What they should do is transition to a combat system based on timed blocks, similar to Warband, KCD, Sekiro, and add something on top of that. That would be a good combat system, unlike this roll-fest.

My dream combat system would be something relatively lenient reflex-wise but with multiple attack/block directions, and attacks chained to blocks or previous attacks, creating flowing sequences of moves on both sides, like high speed chess. But hey, rolling like a retard sells pretty well.



Anyways, wrecked Black Blade Kindred, which is listed as one of the tougher fights in ER:



I actually enjoyed this one, he has powerful attacks and lots of HP, but the attacks are methodical and elegant, with clear counters, so it was a slow but well organized fight. Unlike the usual diarrhea spam that passes for boss design.

 

[NJClaw]

Lmao, the fat guy in the divine tower in Liurnia.

Surprised the floor wasn't littered with "plump sort ahead" messages.

I've now come to the opinion that even by keeping to a lower level bleed has sort of trivalized this game a bit. Bleed proc did over a 1000 damage to this guy, it's a bit absurd. The whole flurry of attacks plus bleed went around 1900 damage.

By contrast, my occult halbert did so little damage it felt like i was just tickling the guy.

Bleed does trivialize most bosses. Even at SL1, fast weapons apply the status with just a couple of L1s against most enemies. Even monsters that are supposed to be resistant to bleed just need a couple more hits, unless they're outright immune. This means that enemies who are weak to bleed, like that fat guy, stands no chance.

There is a reason why Dark Souls games are pretty much the only ones based on rolling. [...] it's highly unrealistic

Stop this outrageous gayery

 

[volklore]

BTW, am i the only one who doesn't mind all the delayed attacks, roll catching shit and stuff like that?

Seems to me for a game that is basically based on dodging there isn't much else they can do to up the challenge for the player. No matter how wayward the move set is finger memory eventually always wins so i don't see it as much of a big deal as some people make it out to be.

The problem, for me, is that dodging boss attacks often becomes a matter of rote memorization. Every boss has a complex moveset with weird ass delays, and there's no way to intuit these, you can only practice, practice, practice until you just know their attacks by heart. And while this was also a thing you needed to do in earlier Souls games, now it feels as if it's the only thing you're doing.

It's a constant in From soft games pretty much since demon souls, they always add mechanics and moves designed to trick players from past games, and to make them switch gears. I remember when dark souls 2 came out, dark souls 1 players complained a ton about the heavy amount of tracking they added to pretty much every attack specifically to make DS1 players change gears and iFrame things more. It became pretty much a staple after that to have a lot of attack tracking although they made it less heavy handed. I appreciate it in general, but it begs the question of until when is it possible to keep escalating stuff to keep up with the dark souls player base.
I think Elden ring found a good way by adding big rewards to aggression (contrary to DS1, 2, or 3) with the posture system and therefore rewards calculated trading... And learning what attack you can trade really isn't something that souls games have ever encouraged until now. If you attack during the delayed boss attacks instead of waiting to dodge, not only do you gain info on how much hit you can do but also a good indication to the timing your dodge, and maybe even posture break the boss during the windup : some windups are so long that you can fit an entire charged R2, and even if you have to take the hit in the recovery frame, posture breaking is massive payoff because on top of the crit, you can usually fit another charged R2 while the boss gets up, or heal, reapply a buff etc... I really enjoy the changes now that I played it a ton, but i would lie if i said it didn't heavily throw me off, way more than going from any souls to another.

 

[Caim]

I know that in the endgame one of the areas will undergo a big change, but at what exact moment does this change happen? When you do the thing before you get moved to the next area, or after you beat the boss in that area and you get moved back for the big reveal?

When you do the thing. But you don't have to do the thing if you're not ready yet. I delayed it for a long time my first time because of reasons.

Ehm, I'm pretty sure it's when you kill the boss...

Really? I could've sworn... but the wiki suggests you're right, it's after the boss. Silly me for expecting these things to make logical sense.

EDIT:

Spoiler

I guess it makes sense actually, both in that the tree takes time to burn down and there's that period where the flame background is over areas, but also because you need to fight Maliketh to release the rune of death in order to kill the Elden Beast, so if you could interact with Ashen Capital, you still wouldn't be able to finish the game without doing CFA, so it would be rather pointless.

So after beating that final boss, got it. There's some of that good shit in CFA, and I'd like to collect some without waking up to ash and dust when I poke around in that one area before I'm ready.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Fuck, i need to quit for a bit again.

I didn't believe there could be a game that's actually too long for its own good as i'm fairly resistant to burn out but i just killed the Blaidd ghost thing and i'm now faced with Deeproot Garden (which i forgot to go to after i killed the Gargoyles, not a good sign) and the Lake of Rot and i STILL have to go through that whole area where the Volcano Manor is, and then the capital, the sewers, and that whole section up north etc.

And i don't want to rush through all of it especially since there's some good quality content according to comments here (especially the legacy dungeons i've haven't encountered yet). I'll just take a break, resume in a few days or more.

 

[Vibalist]

BTW, am i the only one who doesn't mind all the delayed attacks, roll catching shit and stuff like that?

Seems to me for a game that is basically based on dodging there isn't much else they can do to up the challenge for the player. No matter how wayward the move set is finger memory eventually always wins so i don't see it as much of a big deal as some people make it out to be.

The problem, for me, is that dodging boss attacks often becomes a matter of rote memorization. Every boss has a complex moveset with weird ass delays, and there's no way to intuit these, you can only practice, practice, practice until you just know their attacks by heart. And while this was also a thing you needed to do in earlier Souls games, now it feels as if it's the only thing you're doing.

It's a constant in From soft games pretty much since demon souls, they always add mechanics and moves designed to trick players from past games, and to make them switch gears. I remember when dark souls 2 came out, dark souls 1 players complained a ton about the heavy amount of tracking they added to pretty much every attack specifically to make DS1 players change gears and iFrame things more. It became pretty much a staple after that to have a lot of attack tracking although they made it less heavy handed. I appreciate it in general, but it begs the question of until when is it possible to keep escalating stuff to keep up with the dark souls player base.
I think Elden ring found a good way by adding big rewards to aggression (contrary to DS1, 2, or 3) with the posture system and therefore rewards calculated trading... And learning what attack you can trade really isn't something that souls games have ever encouraged until now. If you attack during the delayed boss attacks instead of waiting to dodge, not only do you gain info on how much hit you can do but also a good indication to the timing your dodge, and maybe even posture break the boss during the windup : some windups are so long that you can fit an entire charged R2, and even if you have to take the hit in the recovery frame, posture breaking is massive payoff because on top of the crit, you can usually fit another charged R2 while the boss gets up, or heal, reapply a buff etc... I really enjoy the changes now that I played it a ton, but i would lie if i said it didn't heavily throw me off, way more than going from any souls to another.

I see what you're saying. However, I came into Elden Ring straight from DS1, having played no other soulslikes (aside from Salt and Sanctuary), so for me the boss bullshitto was just a tad too overwhelming.

 

[Multidirectional]

Fuck, i need to quit for a bit again.

I keep taking breaks from it too. I never had this with From game before, certainly not on first run.

 

[Andnjord]

Late game boss spoiler, verbotten for the Lyric Suite and Porky's of the world.

Spoiler

T'is beautiful to see though.

 

[Vibalist]

they make it look so easy don't they

 

[Andnjord]

they make it look so easy don't they

So easy they can goof around with cosplay builds and spells that no one in their right mind would ever normally use in this situation, like the finisher at the end.

 

[NJClaw]

This was kind of fun and interesting. It looks like this guy's channel has a few of these with voice actors if you're interested in this sort of thing.

Definitely the best one:

 

[simtam]

There is a reason why Dark Souls games are pretty much the only ones based on rolling. It looks stupid (watch any DaS/ER PvP video, people just rolling around like retards), it's highly unrealistic, and it rewards reflexes over actual skill or technique. What they should do is transition to a combat system based on timed blocks, similar to Warband, KCD, Sekiro, and add something on top of that. That would be a good combat system, unlike this roll-fest.

I appreciate making this discussion not only about "how long the windup should be" to the extent that it no longer can be mistaken for a spanking porn enthusiasts forum

However it is odd to say only Dark Souls games are based on rolling, like it is 2012 again. Over the decade pretty much the whole AAA segment that used to do Batman/AC combat switched to rollfests. Sometimes the dodge has an animation of a very long jump, but it's all the same, iframes and whatnot.

 

[Andnjord]

Anyways, wrecked Black Blade Kindred, which is listed as one of the tougher fights in ER:



I actually enjoyed this one, he has powerful attacks and lots of HP, but the attacks are methodical and elegant, with clear counters, so it was a slow but well organized fight. Unlike the usual diarrhea spam that passes for boss design.

Not your best fight bro, there were so many windows where you could have used your guard counters but never did

Also, what's up with your Estus being upgraded only to +5? My strenght dude has yet to get into Leyndell and Mt Gelmir and I have it already upgraded to +7.

And i don't want to rush through all of it especially since there's some good quality content according to comments here (especially the legacy dungeons i've haven't encountered yet). I'll just take a break, resume in a few days or more.

On top of all that you said there are three more legacy dungeons, two of which are pretty long, one potentially sanity-breaking hard and they have what are arguably the hardest bosses of the game if not the whole of of the souls series. So good decision, I took a similar break just before killing the boss of the first of the legacy dungeons and it saved myself a lot of sanity loss.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Also, what's up with your Estus being upgraded only to +5?

Exploration is cheating.

This is what happens when you try and face tank everything. Severe brain damage and retardation.

 

[Curratum]

Szymanski the Cuck has spoken!

 

[Olinser]

 

[Andnjord]

Give a quote from the game that she can use in bed.

"Put these foolish ambitions to rest"

 

[Lyric Suite]

Szymanski the Cuck has spoken!

Who?

Setting a new bar for open world design is not that hard considering 99% of open world gaymes out there are total dog shit lmao.

 

[HoboForEternity]

I had more trouble with maliketh than malenia. Moghwyn is also harder than malenia.

Maliketh 2nd phase is jumping around like crazy my spells wont hit this asshole, while malenia's aggro is really manageable and using the tear that makes you do more poise damage i can stagger her first phase a lot. The only deadly thing about her is the waterfowl and scarlet aeonia.

With waterfowl, you will just run away when she jump, OR use a tiny dodge window and ROLL INTO her.

Or

I just abuse the perfume that lets you tank one hit to tank scarlet aeonia.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

Give a quote from the game that she can use in bed.

"Put these foolish ambitions to rest"

 

[Curratum]