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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

ELEXmakesMeHard

Learned
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Jun 19, 2021
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464
Poor Tarnished. It's so difficult to find love in the golden lands.

Rennala is way too deep into the whole mommy roleplay thing. Ranni is too cold. Melina is either way too hot or doesn't forgive you for becoming hot yourself. Nepheli bangs Kenneth and Gostoc. Roderika has grand-daddy issues. Sellen... well there's a head joke in there somewhere, but I can't find it. Enia only needs two fingers. Fia has a necrostiff fetish. Latenna is into bestiality. Tanith has a vore fetish. Rya is a reptilian. Millicent and Malenia have AIDS.

Which only leaves Hyetta. Because who encourages you to touch her? Who encourages you to get butt-naked? Hyetta! Best waifu confirmed; wedding DLC needed.

Nepheli can be transformed into an unwitting rapey waifu though. If you help Seluvis give her the special potion, then you can later find her as a puppet positioned in a "riding position" next to the bed in his hidden sex dungeon. Then later, once Seluvis is killed, you can loot sex-puppet-Nepheli. Yeah, his quest turns kinda dark.
 
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Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
Messages
51,508
This game is already too long as it is, imagine with DLCs lmao.

[EDIT] If they do DLCs i hope it's gonna be just legacy dungeons because even normies are probably going to go ballistic with more open areas that are harder than consecrated snowfield and shit.
 
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Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
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51,508
BTW, bumped my weapon to +20 (somber +8) and now i'm getting a lot more connections. Finally got myself within the range of +25 people, heh.
 

Mauman

Learned
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Messages
458
The piles of salt on the steam forums have been quite amusing now that the full co-op mod is out.

Good times.
 

Lambach

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Can someone explain to me what the purpose of "Flame, Grant me Strength" is? To empower one or two mega flame-based spells? It lasts an incredible 19 microseconds, by the time I'm done dodging some Boss' 30-strike combo and finally get an opening to punish, it already fizzles out.

The only practical use I've seen for it is making those "One-shotting Bosses in Elden Ring, EBIN GAMER STYLE" videos on YT.
 

Andnjord

Arcane
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2,677
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The North Sea
Can someone explain to me what the purpose of "Flame, Grant me Strength" is? To empower one or two mega flame-based spells? It lasts an incredible 19 microseconds, by the time I'm done dodging some Boss' 30-strike combo and finally get an opening to punish, it already fizzles out.

The only practical use I've seen for it is making those "One-shotting Bosses in Elden Ring, EBIN GAMER STYLE" videos on YT.
Just gonna quote myself since Bloodeyes had asked the same question:

Flame Grant me Strenght gives you both a +20% to physical damage AND a +20% to fire damage for 30 seconds to ALL your attacks (both weapons and spells), which makes it really good for either flame art infused weapons or for the many faith weapons that natively have fire damage on them.

And some more additional sperging if you want:

Just in case you don't know, the fact that it stacks multiplicately (as do all buffs in Souls games I believe) means that Golden Vow + Flame doesn't give you a total of 1+0.15+0.20=1.35 of your base damage, but rather 1*1.15*1.20=1.38 of base damage. It might not look like that big of a difference, but when you also add the cracked tear for fire damage (+20%) and the fire scorpion charm (+12%) then suddenly your fire damage (all fire damage, so both your flame of frenzy/black flame and the fire damage of a sword will benefit) ends up looking like 1.38*1.2*1.12=1.85 of base damage. Also add the Faithful talisman (+4%) and you've now almost doubled the damage (1.93 of base) of your black flame and flame of frenzy.
(had it been additive we'd be looking at only 1.71 of base damage with the same buffs)
If you really want to murder something fast then you could also add the buff from the jelly shield weapon art that adds a flat 20% to all your damage output (for a total of 2.3 of base damage) and the Ritual Sword Talisman for an extra 10% when at full health, so we're ending up at 2.5.

Let's say your Black Flame was hitting for 700 dmg, now it's hitting for 1750 dmg. And you could even buff this further by using Godfrey's icon that buffs charged spells.

You can do the same shenanigans with all your damage types (so also applies to holy and lightning effects) as there is a Cracked Tears and a Scorpion Charm for all of the elemental damage types, except there's no equivalent to Flame Grant me Strenght for the other types.

EDIT: Forgot to also add the Godslayer's Seal for +10%, so we're at 2.75 of base damage, or 1925 for our example Black Flame.

Point being, by combining talismans, flask of wondrous physick and spell buff you can stack damage through the roof.
 

mediocrepoet

En français: poètemédiocre!
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Can someone explain to me what the purpose of "Flame, Grant me Strength" is? To empower one or two mega flame-based spells? It lasts an incredible 19 microseconds, by the time I'm done dodging some Boss' 30-strike combo and finally get an opening to punish, it already fizzles out.

The only practical use I've seen for it is making those "One-shotting Bosses in Elden Ring, EBIN GAMER STYLE" videos on YT.
Just gonna quote myself since Bloodeyes had asked the same question:

Flame Grant me Strenght gives you both a +20% to physical damage AND a +20% to fire damage for 30 seconds to ALL your attacks (both weapons and spells), which makes it really good for either flame art infused weapons or for the many faith weapons that natively have fire damage on them.

And some more additional sperging if you want:

Just in case you don't know, the fact that it stacks multiplicately (as do all buffs in Souls games I believe) means that Golden Vow + Flame doesn't give you a total of 1+0.15+0.20=1.35 of your base damage, but rather 1*1.15*1.20=1.38 of base damage. It might not look like that big of a difference, but when you also add the cracked tear for fire damage (+20%) and the fire scorpion charm (+12%) then suddenly your fire damage (all fire damage, so both your flame of frenzy/black flame and the fire damage of a sword will benefit) ends up looking like 1.38*1.2*1.12=1.85 of base damage. Also add the Faithful talisman (+4%) and you've now almost doubled the damage (1.93 of base) of your black flame and flame of frenzy.
(had it been additive we'd be looking at only 1.71 of base damage with the same buffs)
If you really want to murder something fast then you could also add the buff from the jelly shield weapon art that adds a flat 20% to all your damage output (for a total of 2.3 of base damage) and the Ritual Sword Talisman for an extra 10% when at full health, so we're ending up at 2.5.

Let's say your Black Flame was hitting for 700 dmg, now it's hitting for 1750 dmg. And you could even buff this further by using Godfrey's icon that buffs charged spells.

You can do the same shenanigans with all your damage types (so also applies to holy and lightning effects) as there is a Cracked Tears and a Scorpion Charm for all of the elemental damage types, except there's no equivalent to Flame Grant me Strenght for the other types.

EDIT: Forgot to also add the Godslayer's Seal for +10%, so we're at 2.75 of base damage, or 1925 for our example Black Flame.

Point being, by combining talismans, flask of wondrous physick and spell buff you can stack damage through the roof.

I used it all the time on my strength/faith character, it's awesome since it boosted everything relevant to her. If I wanted to switch to holy damage or something, I swapped to another buff. Also, note that FGMS stacks with Sacred Vow since the former is a body buff and the latter is an aura buff. You can stack 4 types of buffs: body, aura, weapon, and special. You just can't use two of one type as they'll overwrite one another.

Beyond that, everything stacks, including with your talismans and anything that your armour or weapon might give you, so you can make some pretty nutty combinations if you're of that mindset.
 

Bloodeyes

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I looked at the wiki and I've used all but one of the larval tears in the game. I sort of regret that. Still, I like the build I'm in at the moment. STR and DEX are at weapon requirements. After trying the Flamberge for a while I'm back with the rapier as my primary weapon. The bigger weapon made bloody slash unusably slow in most circumstances. The flamberge is fun. I still have the stats to use it if I want. Wild strikes and sword dance ended up being my favorite ways to proc bleed. But fuck bleed TBH. At least where I'm at in the game it's an inefficient way of fighting unless you're against something slow and even then bloody slash has way higher DPS, hits far easier and gets punished much less.

I'm running a mixed FTH/ARC build for the weapon art and the boost to dragon breath spells from the Dragon Communion seal. Using an occult rapier and an assortment of flame art and sacred secondary weapons. Each is a tool for a different enemy, but the rapier is by far the best all rounder. The high damage, stupid reach and good speed of its weapon art make it brilliant for removing anything dangerous from my vicinity. The ability to stab with a shield up is brilliant when I get mobbed and lose my cool. All I need to do is get my back clear, raise the shield, and start stabbing until I am safe again.

The rapier is +20 and it's getting the job done with 50 arcane behind it. It has actually become my best weapon. I also finally found a new robe I like that doesn't weigh more than Patches old sackcloth one. So Blaidd's armour goes into storage and I return to light after a brief hiatus being medium.
 
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Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
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51,508
Heh, i still got 17 larval tears.

Of course, i committed to this build because i played faith based paladin in every first run i made in past Souls games and the novelty of playing something different carried me through the whole game.
 

Lambach

Arcane
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There is no way that FGMS lasts 30 seconds, no goddamn way. Either that, or my sense of time is completely off. I never managed to get more than 3-4 hits in against any Boss during the duration of the buff, and re-applying it mid-combat is an extremely risky prospect due to its brutally long cast time.

I am aware of its damage potential. When I put BloodFlame Blade on my piece of grorious Nippon steel, folded over a thousand times (Nagakiba), then top it off with FGMS, I hit like a truck and the damage increase is very noticeable. Only problem is, that works very well mostly only against normal enemies, against whom I don't need that extra OOMPH! anyway. Against Bosses, that large increase in damage becomes a moot point, because out of those (alleged) 30 seconds, I spend 20-25 rolling around, evading their endless combos. And good luck trying to re-apply it while going up against, say, the Draconic Tree Sentinel.

That's why I said the only practical application of it I see is buffing those already incredibly powerful late game flame-based spells so that instead of casting two of them to kill something, you only have to cast one.
 

mediocrepoet

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But fuck bleed TBH. At least where I'm at in the game it's an inefficient way of fighting unless you're against something slow and even then bloody slash has way higher DPS, hits far easier and gets punished much less.

Man, all the not sure if serious energy up in here. I mean, sure, if you're fighting a rock or something that's immune to bleed, sure. Otherwise, I dunno. I'll just borrow this from NJClaw. Please explain how this could be made more efficient.


 

Lambach

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But fuck bleed TBH. At least where I'm at in the game it's an inefficient way of fighting unless you're against something slow and even then bloody slash has way higher DPS, hits far easier and gets punished much less.

Man, all the not sure if serious energy up in here. I mean, sure, if you're fighting a rock or something that's immune to bleed, sure. Otherwise, I dunno. I'll just borrow this from NJClaw. Please explain how this could be made more efficient.




Well he did say "where I am at the game". This video is clearly showcasing a very late game character, with stats and equipment that aren't available until much later on in the game. If you try to base your build on Bleed from early on, you're gonna be having an awful time, as I learned myself.
 

mediocrepoet

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Well he did say "where I am at the game". This video is clearly showcasing a very late game character, with stats and equipment that aren't available until much later on in the game. If you try to base your build on Bleed from early on, you're gonna be having an awful time, as I learned myself.

Sure, that's dual twinblades, but you can make a strong setup doing the same thing through the entire game using dual curved swords. If you want, you can even start with dual curved swords and then just beeline for bloody slash and duplicate it, off the top of my head. That's leaving out things like grabbing something with innate bleed and making it occult, etc.

He's at least mid-game and everything in this video is already available to him.
 

Lambach

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Well he did say "where I am at the game". This video is clearly showcasing a very late game character, with stats and equipment that aren't available until much later on in the game. If you try to base your build on Bleed from early on, you're gonna be having an awful time, as I learned myself.

Sure, that's dual twinblades, but you can make a strong setup doing the same thing through the entire game using dual curved swords. If you want, you can even start with dual curved swords and then just beeline for bloody slash and duplicate it, off the top of my head. That's leaving out things like grabbing something with innate bleed and making it occult, etc.

He's at least mid-game and everything in this video is already available to him.

Ahh yes, the good-old "it's totally easy to do it if you've already beaten the game 17 times and have all the meta knowledge of it" routine.

Dude, I'm a first time player that doesn't want to watch 30 hours of YT videos of step-by-step guides on how to become a Universe-devouring god within the first hour of the game or memorize every FextraFile Wiki page before I start playing. With no prior meta knowledge, your only strategy for a Bleed build as a new player is "Pick a weapon with innate Bleed on it and pump Arc", which is extremely underwhelming early on.
 

mediocrepoet

En français: poètemédiocre!
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Ahh yes, the good-old "it's totally easy to do it if you've already beaten the game 17 times and have all the meta knowledge of it" routine.

Dude, I'm a first time player that doesn't want to watch 30 hours of YT videos of step-by-step guides on how to become a Universe-devouring god within the first hour of the game or memorize every FextraFile Wiki page before I start playing. With no prior meta knowledge, your only strategy for a Bleed build as a new player is "Pick a weapon with innate Bleed on it and pump Arc", which is extremely underwhelming early on.

You can't be serious. Bloody slash is one of the first weapon arts almost everyone finds. Very soon after you're introduced to the smith that can duplicate weapon ash and you've probably already found a blank one. Redding is teh hard.
 

Lambach

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You can't be serious. Bloody slash is one of the first weapon arts almost everyone finds. Very soon after you're introduced to the smith that can duplicate weapon ash and you've probably already found a blank one. Redding is teh hard.

Have you personally done this? Used a Blood Infusion on an early, barely upgraded weapon and rekt its base damage and scaling for extra Bleed build-up? If so, how many times have you managed to proc Bleed at that point during an average Boss fight?
 

mediocrepoet

En français: poètemédiocre!
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Codex 2012 MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
You can't be serious. Bloody slash is one of the first weapon arts almost everyone finds. Very soon after you're introduced to the smith that can duplicate weapon ash and you've probably already found a blank one. Redding is teh hard.

Have you personally done this? Used a Blood Infusion on an early, barely upgraded weapon and rekt its base damage and scaling for extra Bleed build-up? If so, how many times have you managed to proc Bleed at that point during an average Boss fight?

Does it matter? We had been talking about a guy with at least one +20 weapon who's respeced in the neighbourhood of 18-20 times and has cleared a significant portion of the game. Do you think that's the same as running a +0 bleed weapon?

Either way, I'll do a video later just so we can see if I have my head up my ass.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
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May 26, 2022
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187
I just checked the patch notes (I stopped playing before any balancing patches), looks like they nerfed a lot of the fun stuff. Laser Beam Sword, Laser Beam Shield, frost stomp, and a few other things. It's pretty easy to see that all that's left that's "strong" are bleed and frost builds. They might as well go ahead and nerf bleed and frost builds so every type of build is equally mediocre, and there's the balance all the ones calling for a balanced game get to have.

- Played Dark Souls 1 at launch, they nerfed the Manserpent Greatsword, along with a few other weapons, never touched the game again.
- Played Dark Souls 2 at launch, they nerfed the Lightning Infused Defender Greatsword/Faith build, never touched the game again.
- Played Dark Souls 3 at launch, they nerfed the Fume Knight Ultra Greatsword, never touched the game again.
- Played Elden Ring at launch, they nerfed the Sword of Night and Flame, pretty sure I won't touch this again.

In every one of those games, whatever the first build is that I play, regardless of what it is, gets nerfed in a big way on the first balancing pass. I don't keep playing because I'm not looking for a live service game, if I was then I'd go back to playing Path of Exile.

The only thing they were justified in nerfing IMO was Fire's Deadly Sin exploit with the Eclipse Shotel and the Erdtree Shield, those were extremely broken.
 

Dhaze

Scholar
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Apr 1, 2022
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250
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Belgium
This game is already too long as it is, imagine with DLCs lmao.

[EDIT] If they do DLCs i hope it's gonna be just legacy dungeons because even normies are probably going to go ballistic with more open areas that are harder than consecrated snowfield and shit.

As far as I'm concerned the game already feels like it has DLC. The whole Haligtree stuff could easily have been one.

There is no way that FGMS lasts 30 seconds, no goddamn way. Either that, or my sense of time is completely off. I never managed to get more than 3-4 hits in against any Boss during the duration of the buff, and re-applying it mid-combat is an extremely risky prospect due to its brutally long cast time.

It could be worse: Black Flame Blade has an extraordinary duration of... 7 seconds. It has a quick casting time, but still, 7 seconds of buff in a game whose bosses often go into combo-wombo mode for 15-20 seconds is quite something.

Have you personally done this? Used a Blood Infusion on an early, barely upgraded weapon and rekt its base damage and scaling for extra Bleed build-up? If so, how many times have you managed to proc Bleed at that point during an average Boss fight?
Ahh yes, the good-old "it's totally easy to do it if you've already beaten the game 17 times and have all the meta knowledge of it" routine.

Dude, I'm a first time player that doesn't want to watch 30 hours of YT videos of step-by-step guides on how to become a Universe-devouring god within the first hour of the game or memorize every FextraFile Wiki page before I start playing. With no prior meta knowledge, your only strategy for a Bleed build as a new player is "Pick a weapon with innate Bleed on it and pump Arc", which is extremely underwhelming early on.

My first playthrough was blind (I hadn't watched so much as a trailer for Elden Ring) and I always experiment a lot with my first character.

At one point during the first 15 hours or so, I did exactly what you and mediocrepoet are talking about, which is to duplicate the Bloody Slash ash of war, to then put them on two Grossmessers some skeletons dropped while I was exploring catacombs. I didn't upgrade the Grossmessers, since Smithing Stones were exaggeratedly rare before the first patches; and I didn't put any point into Arcane, since it seemed like a wasted investment and I was already stretched for stats. Nonetheless, going through Stormveil Castle I bled Margit and Godrick like pigs.

It's absolutely doable without any prior knowledge of Elden Ring's idiosyncrasies.
 

Bloodeyes

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But fuck bleed TBH. At least where I'm at in the game it's an inefficient way of fighting unless you're against something slow and even then bloody slash has way higher DPS, hits far easier and gets punished much less.

Man, all the not sure if serious energy up in here. I mean, sure, if you're fighting a rock or something that's immune to bleed, sure. Otherwise, I dunno. I'll just borrow this from NJClaw. Please explain how this could be made more efficient.



I haven't fought Malenia yet so I can't comment on if my setup would be better at handling her. All I can say is that I've got arcane 50 and I've not struggled to proc bleed. When I do the enemy is staggered and takes a chunk of damage. However, when I use bloody slash the enemy is staggered and takes at least a similarly chunk of damage in a single fast, long reaching hit, and bloody slash is safer and easier to use than any of the weapon arts I used to put on bleed. That's for tanky enemies. For less tanky enemies bloody slash just kills them outright, while bleed procs on basic guardsmen and other trash mobs when they would already die from base damage. It actually takes more hits to kill things like knights.

I haven't tried a dual weapon setup for long, but then I wouldn't because I wouldn't give up my shield for anything. It gives 100% physical damage negation. So maybe that's why bleed didn't work for me.

It could be that bleed will overtake big damage single hit attacks in the late game because it's percentage based. That's fine. I'm a long way though on this save. I'm at the city main storyline wise, I've also done all the underground stuff and fought my way through Dragon Barrow, killing everything in my path with Rotten Breath, fire breath and bloody slash. I've been scouring the map, using the wiki map to try to get every last dungeon and I mostly have. So I'm quite high level for where I am in the main plot (level 131 I think).

Bloody slash on a fast weapon without the blood affinity has been the best thing I have tried, and I've spent a lot of time trying things this playthrough. I can smith things to +12 at the moment (only my rapier is +20), so whenever I find something interesting I do that then go fight an enemy or group of enemies that is manageable, but stands a chance of killing me if I'm hopeless with that setup. I do the same with new incantations. If I can't use it under pressure it has no place in my loadout. I can use bleed under pressure. It's okay. But I've been through the majority of the game and it hasn't been better that what I have been using.

A rapier for doing bloody slash and shielded stabbing and a straight sword for cracking shields. I tried to make flamberge as my primary for a while but when things get really out of hand I always went to my real primary, the rapier with bloody slash because it just makes everything dead faster. I've used Elonora's Poleblade and to proc bleed. That's a popular bleed weapon. It wasn't better at killing the enemy than other things I've tried. Giant hunt on a greatsword is the next best thing to bloody slash on a one hander in all my testing.

The good thing about my build is if I find I need bleed at endgame I'm already playing a bleed build, I'm just not using it that way because after trying it a lot on various enemies it just wasn't better. To go back to bleed I'd just need to swap to a bleed weapon. I've got a few available to me. The flamberge, the morningstar, the flail, the nightrider flail are all options.
 

mediocrepoet

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I'm starting to think that the reason many Codexers hate games like COD is because the guns have too many stats and they can't grok the math.

But fuck bleed TBH. At least where I'm at in the game it's an inefficient way of fighting unless you're against something slow ...

I've not struggled to proc bleed. When I do the enemy is staggered and takes a chunk of damage. However, when I use bloody slash the enemy is staggered and takes at least a similarly chunk of damage in a single fast, long reaching hit, and bloody slash is safer and easier to use than any of the weapon arts I used to put on bleed. That's for tanky enemies. For less tanky enemies bloody slash just kills them outright, while bleed procs on basic guardsmen and other trash mobs when they would already die from base damage. It actually takes more hits to kill things like knights.

So what I've gathered from this is that you've discovered that percentage based damage is better on bosses and enemies with more health rather than less, but on enemies that don't have that much health you're better off with flat damage. Meanwhile, fuck bleed, so instead of bleed, you use a bleed weapon art with a native bleed status even if you're changing it to something else.

:deathclaw:

Ok.

6i2cex.jpg
 
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NJClaw

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You can't be serious. Bloody slash is one of the first weapon arts almost everyone finds. Very soon after you're introduced to the smith that can duplicate weapon ash and you've probably already found a blank one. Redding is teh hard.

Have you personally done this? Used a Blood Infusion on an early, barely upgraded weapon and rekt its base damage and scaling for extra Bleed build-up? If so, how many times have you managed to proc Bleed at that point during an average Boss fight?
I played (almost) two bleed-only playthrough. I fought Margit with Reduva and Misericorde and he bled 3 times, with Godrick I used two scimitars and he bled 4 times. That's like starting the fight with the boss already at half health. But to make bleed worth the effort, you need a very aggressive playstyle. If you hide behind your shield a lot, you will gain nothing from it.

For a novice player still scared of the bosses' movesets, Margit and Godrick will probably bleed 2 times, which still puts the blood infusion slightly ahead of the regular one. If you trust my 200 IQ calculations, an unupgraded longsword needs 38 R1 to kill Margit, while a blood-infused one only needs 30.

I've used Elonora's Poleblade and to proc bleed. That's a popular bleed weapon. It wasn't better at killing the enemy than other things I've tried. Giant hunt on a greatsword is the next best thing to bloody slash on a one hander in all my testing.
Eleonora's Poleblade is a shit weapon to proc bleed. At +10, its base hemorrhage buildup is 55, while any other blood-infused twinblade starts from 100. Just like with Rivers of Blood, its strength is the ash of war, which deals insane damage regardless of bleed.
 
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Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
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The piles of salt on the steam forums have been quite amusing now that the full co-op mod is out.

Good times.

I'm not gonna check but i'm going out of a limb and just assume nobody actually gives a shit.

You think normies care about this stuff?
 

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