From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lyric Suite]

So my old save file is not THAT terrible. I see i had killed both Mohg and Morgott. I basically have to redo Mountaintops of Giants (up to the church after the ice dragon which is where i decided to change course and head for Melenia) and Consecrated Snowfields plus Helgtree up to right before Loretta.

I'll keep trying to see if i can restore the corrupt save and i'm still now sure i want to redo all that but at least it wouldn't be THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME FROM SCRATCH.

 

[Alphard]

:

then i find converted fringe tower with the same message than the older one.

The very second I did the gesture there and it didn't work, I knew it had to be some bullshit like that. I just knew. So I tried everything I could think of, including going for a respec. and pumping my Intelligence to 99, then casting Rennala's Full Moon (the highest-requirement sorcery) inside Terra Magica. Surely that proves a modicum of erudition, right? Nope.

Never found the answer by myself. I only searched the wiki after the end of my first playthrough—and I hope whoever came with that idiotic enigma will get brain cancer in their ass.

That's what I call 'Developer's Logic'. It's when the solution to an ambiguous puzzle or enigma only makes sense in the developer's mind (or a likewise diseased one); and despite other solutions being demonstrably equally appropriate as the intended one, none of them will work, because of course they won't—can't let player creativity be a solution.

In a way it harkens back to the point-and-click games of the 90's, in which you'd end up clicking with every item you've collected over every pixel on the screen, to then mutter, "That's what I was supposed to do? Holy shit devs, what were you smoking?"

Oh but the three turtles necessary to open Chelona's Rise? Yeah, arguably even worse, and that one confused me for a solid hour. Because there is no indication whatsoever that the turtles might well be at the other side of the fucking promontory.
On top of that, if you die while searching for the turtles (at, say, the paws of a nearby house-sized spastic red wolf), the turtles disappear and you have to re-read the placard near the tower to make them reappear. I searched for half an hour after dying, before coming back to re-read the placard, then noticed the turtle hanging on the cliff that I was sure had not been there a minute earlier.
And on top of that yet, I had found the turtle hanging on the cliff, as well as the one on the other side of the area, and had been desperately searching for the third one for about twenty minutes when all of a sudden popped the message that the seal had been opened. But I hadn't found the third one... Because the one at the top of the Spirit Spring hadn't spawned for me, yet died on its own, somehow. The same thing happened to a friend.

I can't believe I'm saying this but Owlcat's devs, who created Nenio's puzzles in Wrath Of The Righteous, have been put to shame by FromSoft's devs when it comes to worst puzzle design. It's awful. Just awful.

Lol respeccing to solve the puzzle is crazy, but at the same time brilliant. too bad they came up with a gimmick that you cannot possible solve on your own aside from very specific circumstances ( like naturally wearing the stupid helmet for your build).

 

[Dhaze]

Lol respeccing to solve the puzzle is crazy, but at the same time brilliant. too bad they came up with a gimmick that you cannot possible solve on your own aside from very specific circumstances ( like naturally wearing the stupid helmet for your build).

It's awfully nice of you to say 'crazy yet brilliant', but really I think it goes to show just how convoluted FromSoft's thinking can be, that someone familiar with their previous games could conjure the idea of what I did, and tell themselves "Yeah, that would make sense in this game; let's try."

I should also note that, at the time, I was wearing the full Rennala set. So apparently you can't even wear the Queen's Crescent Crown—nor the Glintstone Crowns of Azur, Lusat, Haima, Hierodas, nor even Sellen's. No, it has to be the Lazuli, Olivinus, Karolos, or Twinsage Glintstone Crown.

So it's bonkers logic wrapped in bonkers logic.

As you say, I'm guessing that the first guy who found this happened to be wearing the right helmet at the time. (either that, or some galaxy-brain level of concentrated autism I can't even pretend to)

 

[Lyric Suite]

Fuck it, i give up, i'll just continue from the last back up i made. I'll use the cheapest, most cheesy tactics known to man to just vaporize all the content i have to redo. I paid money for this shit by God i'll see it through.

 

[mediocrepoet]

And now, for the moment that literally no one was waiting for... my lazy analysis of early game bleed and a bonus mini video showing why delayed attacks and input reading is actually awesome. It's so short I'm not sure if I should've bothered uploading it, it just struck me as funny when it happened.



Regarding the bleed video, the change in affinity dropped the sum of the weapon's base and scaling damage by around 20, but the final damage attributed to bleed was roughly 56%. This wasn't a small damage increase or even a moderate one, which is again, why theorycrafting isn't worth much of anything without a solid grasp of the underlying systems.
Stats are warrior starting, unupgraded other than level ups in vigor and endurance so I don't get winded attacking or wombo comboed. Dual bleed scimitars +0.

 

[Dhaze]

It's so short I'm not sure if I should've bothered uploading it, it just struck me as funny when it happened.

Love it, it's hilarious. I've experienced the exact same kind of behavior while fighting Morgott, when he throws his spear at you; once, it took a good 7 or 8 seconds to come out while he slowly kept rotating as if on a Lazy Susan, because I was circling behind him.

And this one sits firmly in the 'input reading' category rather than having to do with delayed attacks, but when I was not doing anything, I've seen the Godskin Apostle simply strafe from side to side for 5-10 seconds at a time, only resuming its attacks precisely when I hit a button.

Regarding bleed, I can almost guarantee that the people who find it bad in the beginning of the game are either fighting enemies immune to bleed, like the Watchdogs, or are fighting way too defensively, thus letting the bleed buildup fall back down before it can trigger the effect.

 

[NJClaw]

level ups in vigor

Great showcase of how strong bleed is against enemies that aren't even weak to it, if you play very aggressively. The video also shows you don't even need to know the moveset: as long as you level up Vigor (and, later on, equip defensive gear), you only need to dodge the very obvious grab attacks and the most telegraphed moves. Everything else can be face-tanked (even moreso with appropriately upgraded weapons). And this stays true from the first to the last boss in the game.

 

[mediocrepoet]

level ups in vigor

Great showcase of how strong bleed is against enemies that aren't even weak to it, if you play very aggressively. The video also shows you don't even need to know the moveset: as long as you level up Vigor (and, later on, equip defensive gear), you only need to dodge the very obvious grab attacks and the most telegraphed moves. Everything else can be face-tanked (even moreso with appropriately upgraded weapons). And this stays true from the first to the last boss in the game.

Yeah, I was originally trying to do it all at base warrior stats. The universe quickly reminded me that I'm not gud.

That and I didn't want to parry anything since getting ripostes in there would muddy up the bleed demonstration, so I figured I'd just raise hp and stamina and do more or less my usual thing, just with gimpy stats and weapons. When I had those videos saying stuff like no summons, no bleed, it wasn't because bleed is terrible. It's because bleed is EXTREMELY strong against anything not immune to it and could be thought of as a major crutch.

 

[Vibalist]

Is frost as strong as bleed?

 

[Haplo]

Is frost as strong as bleed?

I don't think so. But its still strong plus provides a damage resistance debuff. And a great option for Strenght builds, as Frost scales nicely with Str.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Is frost as strong as bleed?

I don't think so. But its still strong plus provides a damage resistance debuff. And a great option for Strenght builds, as Frost scales nicely with Str.

Frost only really procs once and then has a lasting debuff. You can remove it with fire damage in order to re-apply the status for the damage burst, but the real impact of frost is the debuff (reduces damage resistance by 20%) which goes away if you remove the frost proc, so it's counterproductive. What starts getting gross is when you start stacking multiple statuses on weapons like two frost/bleed weapons, or frost/rot, etc. There are also talismans that activate from statuses like bleed being inflicted and start bumping your attack power.

 

[Haplo]

Is frost as strong as bleed?

I don't think so. But its still strong plus provides a damage resistance debuff. And a great option for Strenght builds, as Frost scales nicely with Str.

Frost only really procs once and then has a lasting debuff. You can remove it with fire damage in order to re-apply the status for the damage burst,

I guess I've been doing this without realizing. But at the same time, loosing the damage debuff... Hmm....

 

[Lyric Suite]

Rot then frost then bleed is my go to for bosses in co-op lul

Don't forget status effects become harder to apply for every subsequent one. Bosses get more resistance after any one of them procs once so it's harder to get a second proc which makes swapping around more useful.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Don't forget status effects become harder to apply for every subsequent one. Bosses get more resistance after any one of them procs once so it's harder to get a second proc which makes swapping around more useful.

This is true, but it usually only applies to bleed and maybe frost due to durations. If you're dual wielding, you can stack enough status that the diminishing returns don't matter that much if you don't care about being fiddly by swapping weapons or spells in and out.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Can you get invaded by two guys?

I was just trying to see if co-op worked after restoring the old save and the host got invaded by two red guys. Never saw that before. Password play perhaps?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Can you get invaded by two guys?

I was just trying to see if co-op worked after restoring the old save and the host got invaded by two red guys. Never saw that before. Password play perhaps?

I think it's if you're co-oping and using the taunter's tongue at the same time. Taunter's tongue is sort of like the withered finger or whatever in DS3.

 

[NJClaw]

Is frost as strong as bleed?

I'd say they're almost equal on their own, with bleed dealing more damage but cold weapons having a higher attack power (and giving you 20% more attack power while the debuff is active). Bleed starts getting an edge on frost when you build your character around it: the Lord of Blood's Exultation talisman emulates the frost debuff (it lasts 20 seconds instead of 30, but with the White Mask the attack power bonus becomes higher) and the Seppuku ash of war will make ANYTHING bleed with one powerstanced jumping L1 (I think the only exceptions are enemies immune to bleed and Placidusax, which will bleed with 3 L1). Seppuku also gives you the AP increase at the beginning of the fight, which isn't nothing.

In PvP, bleed is simply better because the higher damage is usually enough to immediately finish off the opponent. Powerstancing any two bleed weapons (spears, rapiers, straight swords) is usually enough to proc the status effect with 2 L1.

As mediocrepoet said, things get ridiculous when you stack both statuses. There is nothing that can survive a chain of jumping attacks from powerstanced cold/blood twinblades. And even just a cold Spiked Palisade Shield with Shield Crash is enough to wreck most of the enemies in the game.

 

[Vibalist]

Is frost as strong as bleed?

I don't think so. But its still strong plus provides a damage resistance debuff. And a great option for Strenght builds, as Frost scales nicely with Str.

Doesn't it usually scale better with INT? There seems to be this weird conflation of magic/cold damage in both Elden Ring and DS3.

I'm actually thinking of doing an INT/ARC build, because of the frost/bleed combination, but can't quite figure out if it'd work.

 

[NJClaw]

As a player though, I'm getting really fatigued.

Keep in mind that you've already gone through the early game like what? Three times already? It's already easy to get fatigued with a regular playthrough, but you really did your best to make it worse. Either take a short break or just skip all (or most) side content altogether. I'm 100% sure it's best to avoid exploring everything in one go and just leave something for subsequent playthroughs.

Doesn't it usually scale better with INT? There seems to be this weird conflation of magic/cold damage in both Elden Ring and DS3.

I'm actually thinking of doing an INT/ARC build, because of the frost/bleed combination, but can't quite figure out if it'd work.

I haven't used the cold affinity much, but I think it's supposed to slightly improve the already existing STR and DEX scaling of the weapon. This means that if you put it on a weapon that already has a good STR scaling (like the Greatsword), you'll end up benefiting more from STR than INT (the same holds for DEX and DEX weapons, like the Uchigatana). The magic damage will still scale off of INT and the value depends on the weapon (but I don't know which rules it follows).

 

[Haplo]

Doesn't it usually scale better with INT? There seems to be this weird conflation of magic/cold damage in both Elden Ring and DS3.

I'm actually thinking of doing an INT/ARC build, because of the frost/bleed combination, but can't quite figure out if it'd work.

I haven't used the cold affinity much, but I think it's supposed to slightly improve the already existing STR and DEX scaling of the weapon. This means that if you put it on a weapon that already has a good STR scaling (like the Greatsword), you'll end up benefiting more from STR than INT (the same holds for DEX and DEX weapons, like the Uchigatana). The magic damage will still scale off of INT and the value depends on the weapon (but I don't know which rules it follows).

Cold mostly seems to keep the existing Str scaling (a bit lower physical damage though, of course), add magic damage and add Int scaling. Its very good for Strenght builds (not versus magic-resistant enemies, obviously).

 

[NJClaw]

I'm 99% sure cold actually improves the existing STR and DEX scaling, at least slightly. For example, the Monk's Flamemace has C in DEX without any affinity and it goes to B with Cold.

 

[Haplo]

I'm 99% sure cold actually improves the existing STR and DEX scaling, at least slightly. For example, the Monk's Flamemace has C in DEX without any affinity and it goes to B with Cold.

Even if so, that's still rather cosmetic, as the scaling effect calculations are based on base damage - and the physical part of that is lowered somewhat (but a second magical component is added).

 

[Vibalist]

The point is that once you add cold dmg. to the weapon, you better have at least decent INT so that the magic damage scales up to a respectable level. Otherwise you're better off just adding some other kind of damage imo.

For instance, right now I'm running Dex/Arc, dex being main stat. All my weapons are keen, because it just seems to give the best return.

 

[Haplo]

I had 16 Int (wanted to be able to use the Ruins Greatsword) and Cold enchanted weapons were very good for me.
Its not like you're loosing a lot of damage by not investing in some D/E Int scaling.

 

[Cromwell]

"What if we made Daggerfall, but we did everything by hand?" and then the madlads

... copy pasted like the best algorythm. Thats Japanese humour.