From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Halfling Rodeo]

There is no need to overdramatize this. What most likely happened is that first they made the world, dungeons, animations and so on with NPC quests being at the very tail end of development so when came the time to ship(which is a couple months before release date because you need to print discs for the consoles) certain quests were simply not finalized and so had to be added in a patch.

We're not talking a day 1 patch. We're talking Patches the NPC disappeared from your game entirely if you did his quest line. He was added to another location later where he hands you an item and returns to his cave. Elden Ring has been out a long time now and Patches treatment is unacceptable. Seeing how Patches is going to fuck me over is one of the reasons I play From games. He's always been a highlight and I expect more from the biggest selling game of the year than an npc quest line removing him from your game if you try and complete it.

 

[Cheesedragon117]

Malenia being from Sekiro has to be one of the weirdest conspiracy theories that Souls fans have ever gaslit themselves into believing. Especially considering the severe lack of hard evidence, save for a single similar attack shared between the games.

And the strange thing is, the general Souls fanbase used to be a lot better at thinking for themselves, back when news of these games was primarily transmitted through word of mouth. Now the latest vague conjecture posted on YouTube about the world, story, and behind-the-scenes details is seemingly take as gospel truth.

 

[mediocrepoet]

And the strange thing is, the general Souls fanbase used to be a lot better at thinking for themselves,

Vaati would like to have a word with you.

 

[Ravielsk]

He's always been a highlight and I expect more from the biggest selling game of the year than an npc quest line removing him from your game if you try and complete it.

Fair enough. I kind feel out of the loop after finishing the game but yes from a cursory overlook even the current patched version of his quest is clearly a quick hack job as all they changed is that they reset him to his previous state, also his connection with lady tanith feels like yet another case of cut content so yeah I should look into what new things have been discovered.

Malenia being from Sekiro has to be one of the weirdest conspiracy theories that Souls fans have ever gaslit themselves into believing. Especially considering the severe lack of hard evidence, save for a single similar attack shared between the games.

I will admit that most of the evidence is purely circumstantial but goes far beyond just one shared attack. First is the clear idiosyncrasy of her being a katana user in a world that explicitly states that the Asiatic country equivalent of ER has closed it self off from the rest of the world. Second is that she has a bunch of unused animations very reminiscent of Sekiro. And finally she is just a weirdly made boss because if you go up against her with a lighter weapon she presents a bizzare jump in difficulty but if you jump her with a heavier weapon like the moonlight sword she is a complete push over that basically cannot even really hit you(which in lore makes it extremely questionable how was she ever competition for Radhan).

If nothing, it all points to her at least being inspired by Sekiro bosses as all her problems more or less wholly fit the bill for a Sekiro boss transported into a Souls setting.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Fair enough. I kind feel out of the loop after finishing the game but yes from a cursory overlook even the current patched version of his quest is clearly a quick hack job as all they changed is that they reset him to his previous state, also his connection with lady tanith feels like yet another case of cut content so yeah I should look into what new things have been discovered.

I spent hours looking for that bastard as well. There were groups trying to find him for hundreds of hours because Elden ring map had no NPC names on it yet and he literally just vanished after Volcano manor.

And finally she is just a weirdly made boss because if you go up against her with a lighter weapon she presents a bizzare jump in difficulty but if you jump her with a heavier weapon like the moonlight sword she is a complete push over that basically cannot even really hit you(which in lore makes it extremely questionable how was she ever competition for Radhan).

She's easy enough to stagger with a light weapon. Her random hyper armor will fuck you either way. Remember Heavy weapons had to be severely buffed a while after release because they could barely touch her. The go to strat was using a bleed weapon and minic tier to keep her stun locked as you bled her out.

 

[Ezekiel]

Still haven't bought it, still think about it sometimes.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Armor

Fashion Souls sucks. All so bland. Miss the sex-specific designs in Demon's Souls, how Fluted, Leather, Black Leather, Plated all had different designs for the women, who seemed to have slightly different shoulders if I remember correctly. Why are there so many long, heavy-looking rags in modern Souls? Rags! Tiny heads still pisses me off too. Proportions are completely fucked. Your faces are best... not seen.

 

[Caim]

Still haven't bought it, still think about it sometimes.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Armor

Fashion Souls sucks. All so bland. Miss the sex-specific designs in Demon's Souls, how Fluted, Leather, Black Leather, Plated all had different designs for the women, who seemed to have slightly different shoulders if I remember correctly. Why are there so many long, heavy-looking rags in modern Souls? Rags! Tiny heads still pisses me off too. Proportions are completely fucked. Your faces are best... not seen.

Another thing to note is how fucked the progression is. There are four armor sets who share the rank of third highest physical defense in the game. This is how you get them:

- Banished Knight (pieces drom from very early game enemies that are a bit tough at that point)
- Tree Sentinel (found as a reward in a tricky midgame dungeon)
- General Radahn Set (bought after defeating a boss towards the midgame for 36k, just over half of what you get for beating that boss)
- Veteran Set (bought after defeating a lategame boss for 18k, a fifth of what said boss drops)

The most powerful set can only be gotten after beating an enemy you encounter during a quest, and the second most powerful requires grinding a tough enemy in the midgame.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Still haven't bought it, still think about it sometimes.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Armor

Fashion Souls sucks. All so bland. Miss the sex-specific designs in Demon's Souls, how Fluted, Leather, Black Leather, Plated all had different designs for the women, who seemed to have slightly different shoulders if I remember correctly. Why are there so many long, heavy-looking rags in modern Souls? Rags! Tiny heads still pisses me off too. Proportions are completely fucked. Your faces are best... not seen.

Another thing to note is how fucked the progression is. There are four armor sets who share the rank of third highest physical defense in the game. This is how you get them:

- Banished Knight (pieces drom from very early game enemies that are a bit tough at that point)
- Tree Sentinel (found as a reward in a tricky midgame dungeon)
- General Radahn Set (bought after defeating a boss towards the midgame for 36k, just over half of what you get for beating that boss)
- Veteran Set (bought after defeating a lategame boss for 18k, a fifth of what said boss drops)

The most powerful set can only be gotten after beating an enemy you encounter during a quest, and the second most powerful requires grinding a tough enemy in the midgame.

It's unfortunately a feature not a bug. They want each play through to have random loot drops so you're not just min/maxing the best stuff you can get. It's a nice idea in practice but in reality it can fuck off. I'm not grinding an enemy to get the 3% sword drop I need. Fuck that. There needs to be ways to force drop rates or drop rates shouldn't be below like 25% for unique equipment.

 

[Caim]

Still haven't bought it, still think about it sometimes.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Armor

Fashion Souls sucks. All so bland. Miss the sex-specific designs in Demon's Souls, how Fluted, Leather, Black Leather, Plated all had different designs for the women, who seemed to have slightly different shoulders if I remember correctly. Why are there so many long, heavy-looking rags in modern Souls? Rags! Tiny heads still pisses me off too. Proportions are completely fucked. Your faces are best... not seen.

Another thing to note is how fucked the progression is. There are four armor sets who share the rank of third highest physical defense in the game. This is how you get them:

- Banished Knight (pieces drom from very early game enemies that are a bit tough at that point)
- Tree Sentinel (found as a reward in a tricky midgame dungeon)
- General Radahn Set (bought after defeating a boss towards the midgame for 36k, just over half of what you get for beating that boss)
- Veteran Set (bought after defeating a lategame boss for 18k, a fifth of what said boss drops)

The most powerful set can only be gotten after beating an enemy you encounter during a quest, and the second most powerful requires grinding a tough enemy in the midgame.

It's unfortunately a feature not a bug. They want each play through to have random loot drops so you're not just min/maxing the best stuff you can get. It's a nice idea in practice but in reality it can fuck off. I'm not grinding an enemy to get the 3% sword drop I need. Fuck that. There needs to be ways to force drop rates or drop rates shouldn't be below like 25% for unique equipment.

Dark Souls 2 was pretty terrible at this, with one of the worst offenders being the Monstary Set (low drop chance that appears on a specific phantom that appears only once, so have fun with ascetics and hope for the best.

Elden Ring can be pretty terrible as well: if you want something like the Celebrant's Rib-Rake (a spear with underwhelming damage that as a special effect gives you 10 runes ber hit you land) you're looking at a base drop rate of 0.5%. Reminder that your drop rate starts at 100% of the base rate plus 1 per level of Arcane, plus 50 for the fowl foot and plus 75 for the ring (which you won't get until you head for the Snowfield).

So have fun!

 

[Ezekiel]

I have no idea what's going on.

Pretty, but looks washed out. Like a modern Roger Deakins movie, whose work I don't care much for. (I have never seen fire so dim as in 1917.)

If I can't read the item description when I pick it up, I probably won't bother. Figure it out, From!

Wish they dropped this lock-on system for the superior one from Zelda.

Wouldn't Souls multiplayer make more sense in a science fiction setting, where the adventure is played in an infinite number of parallel universes, with some technobabble reason for them intersecting?

Parry is dumb. It has always been.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Wouldn't Souls multiplayer make more sense in a science fiction setting, where the adventure is played in an infinite number of parallel universes, with some technobabble reason for them intersecting?

This is the reason for the saying "six of one, half dozen of the other."

That's literally just a personal preference on your part. You prefer some BS sciencey explanation instead of, the gods are dying and reality itself is unraveling. Meh.

Edit: I actually thought I was replying to a Dark Souls thread but the point stands. ER always felt basically like a re-riff of Dark Souls with an elder God alien invasion and set in an earlier era where things hadn't gone to shit quite as much yet.

 

[gabel]

Souls multiplayer is a tacked on DRM mechanism and complete shit anyway.
If you want PVP, play Quake, Broodwar or something else skill-based.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Souls multiplayer is a tacked on DRM mechanism and complete shit anyway.
If you want PVP, play Quake, Broodwar or something else skill-based.

He's talking about setting and lore and the point would remain with the seeing other players' ghosts even if there were no other interactions. Seems to me you're completely missing the point.

 

[Ezekiel]

Camera rotation speed is weird. Slow if you hold the stick even slightly the wrong way.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Wouldn't Souls multiplayer make more sense in a science fiction setting, where the adventure is played in an infinite number of parallel universes, with some technobabble reason for them intersecting?

Thats already the excuse. It's science fiction as it is.

You might enjoy Hell point if you're looking for a souls game with sci fi setting.

He's talking about setting and lore and the point would remain with the seeing other players' ghosts even if there were no other interactions. Seems to me you're completely missing the point.

The ghost system was used for tutorials too. It's designed as a support mechanic for devs and plauers

 

[Ezekiel]

Said it before, but bears repeating in a thread actually about a Souls game.

Ocarina of Time got lock-on right over twenty years before FromSoftware continues to get it wrong. By assigning it to the back button or left bumper/trigger instead of R3, you can strafe and run backwards even when there is no target. Let the player decide if the camera moves behind the character when it's pressed and there is no target and let them switch targets with a second stick as is common now and it's perfect. Only reason FromSoftware does it the way they do is because controllers never evolved with the shift to orbital cameras and heavy use of aiming. You can't easily use the face buttons anymore because every game now uses the right stick so much. But pressing L1 or L2 to target was common back then. Metal Gear Solid 3 did this too, since it originally came out with only the "fixed" camera. Snake can strafe and run backwards just like Link when there is no target. FromSoftware could try opening up the field of view more for a proper L1 targeting system with attacks on the face buttons. That or allow the player to strafe and move backwards by holding the parry/block button. That might seem redundant with R3 already locking on, but how often are you people really turning left and right with the shield up? Do you really need to? Imagine skeleton archers shooting at you from across a chasm and then running sideways along your path while keeping your shield up, still able to see where you are running, the camera still free. Not targeting them, but just defending yourself as you strafe with L1. Would prefer Zelda's system, though, since it also allows for different attacks including thrusts depending on how you hold the stick and holding feels more natural than toggling.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Zeldas camera is inconsistent and often puts Link between the camera and enemies in a way that blocks your vision or changes to awkward sideways angles.

I often turn corners with a shield up.

If you can't use the face buttons then why do so many games do it? Almost every fps on controller still reloads with Square. Souls likes roll with circle. TOTK's control scheme putting jump in Triangle and run on X is awkward at best and downright shit at worst. R1 being throw weapon instead of a functional button is also quite annoying... So nah. Zeldas controls and camera suck. I'm not one to defend From's camera but lock on is not the problem. It needs work and improvements but Zelda did it worse.

 

[Ezekiel]

Zeldas camera is inconsistent and often puts Link between the camera and enemies in a way that blocks your vision or changes to awkward sideways angles.

I often turn corners with a shield up.

If you can't use the face buttons then why do so many games do it? Almost every fps on controller still reloads with Square. Souls likes roll with circle. TOTK's control scheme putting jump in Triangle and run on X is awkward at best and downright shit at worst. R1 being throw weapon instead of a functional button is also quite annoying... So nah. Zeldas controls and camera suck. I'm not one to defend From's camera but lock on is not the problem. It needs work and improvements but Zelda did it worse.

Reloading in shooters is very brief. To use your logic, why don't any shooters map shooting to a face button? Not just because R1/R2 more accurately emulates the feel of a trigger, but because it would be pretty inconvenient with how much you have to move the camera.

Zelda's lock-on cam has problems, but the button interface which is what I'm talking about is more logical. R3 sucks.

 

[Ezekiel]

Also...

I often turn corners with a shield up.

I bet you would find even more use then from running backwards and sideways without a target.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Zelda's lock-on cam has problems, but the button interface which is what I'm talking about is more logical. R3 sucks.

Holding L2 to stay locked on is more annoying than pushing R3. And it takes away a shoulder button you've already conceded is important. Especially in games that use analog triggers so how hard you press them impacts your actions.

I bet you would find even more use then from running backwards and sideways without a target.

No? It would be annoying to block the arrows in Sen's fortress if I moved sidewards while blocking. It sounds like you're convinced Zelda is better than Souls and people pointing out how Zelda is janky as all fuck are being ignored because it doesn't fit your idea.

Ducking, jumping some times melee and weapon swapping are all on the face buttons. I don't know what to tell you if you have a problem with moving your thumb around a controller. Maybe try the Steam deck with it's 4 additional buttons on the grips? (Which I would like to see implemented on controllers but only as programmable buttons not default config ones)

 

[jaekl]

The lockon button being shitty is a "feature" as I've come to realize since they have refused to fix how it whips the camera around away from where you want to look for so long. I can't even imagine a scenario where I would want to recenter the camera where the character is facing, all it does is disorient you and possibly get you killed. With this in mind, I'm sure we can all agree that improvements to the camera, controls or lockon are forbidden in the world of dark souls and there's no point even trying to help these stubborn Japanese fucks fix it.

 

[Ezekiel]

Zelda's lock-on cam has problems, but the button interface which is what I'm talking about is more logical. R3 sucks.

Holding L2 to stay locked on is more annoying than pushing R3.

It's better because it means you will never be LOCKED INTO the targeting system (like the feeling of being tied down by a sticky cover system in a third-person shooter) and you don't have to think binary and will never suddenly turn around and expose your back because your thumb came down by accident or because you were trying to figure out which threat to deal with. Having you hold it mentally reinforces the action you are taking.

And it takes away a shoulder button you've already conceded is important.

You gain three more functions: L1 + forward + attack (thrust or long thrust if you are already only a thrust-only weapon), L1 + right + attack, L1 + left + attack. Worth it. Some good Souls makes of that available trigger, a parry system so effective and simple that it feels like an exploit.

Especially in games that use analog triggers so how hard you press them impacts your actions.

In those games L1 can be used. I prefer L1 anyway, but some controllers have slim L1 and R1 buttons.

No? It would be annoying to block the arrows in Sen's fortress if I moved sidewards while blocking. It sounds like you're convinced Zelda is better than Souls and people pointing out how Zelda is janky as all fuck are being ignored because it doesn't fit your idea.

Ducking, jumping some times melee and weapon swapping are all on the face buttons. I don't know what to tell you if you have a problem with moving your thumb around a controller. Maybe try the Steam deck with it's 4 additional buttons on the grips? (Which I would like to see implemented on controllers but only as programmable buttons not default config ones)

There is no use in blaming me. The shift in game design proves that I'm right. Games had "fixed" cameras and used mainly the face buttons well into the time of two-stick controllers, shooters had lock-on systems and face button to shoot even in the PS2/Gamecube generation and games like Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas still used the face buttons for throttle/break and shoot. Now every AAA game is either in first-person or third-person with limited field of view and actions have been moved to the shoulders accordingly. God of War reboot, once a series with "fixed" cams, had to assign the attacks to the shoulders because you're already switching back and forth between Circle and camera so much in order to dodge, constantly battling the field of view, having only enough time to move the camera to the most convenient position you can until a second later the enemy leaves the field of view again. Resident Evil moved Shoot to the shoulders as soon as you gained the ability to walk and shoot with the over-the-shoulder cam.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

It's better because it means you will never be LOCKED INTO the targeting system (like the feeling of being tied down by a sticky cover system in a third-person shooter) and you don't have to think binary and will never suddenly turn around and expose your back because your thumb came down by accident or because you were trying to figure out which threat to deal with. Having you hold it mentally reinforces the action you are taking.

I want to be locked into the targeting system without having to use another button held down. I don't like holding ZL while I'm trying to press face buttons which is what Zelda does.

I'm not going to dignify your stupidity by quoting it. I'm aware God of war reboot copied how Souls games work.. because Souls games have become the template for action adventure games while Zelda has zero influence outside of open worlds being blander than ever.

 

[Ezekiel]

God of War didn't copy Souls, it copied games like The Last of Us, whose system traces back to Gears of War and (before that) Kill Switch. God of War just forced a third-person shooter system into a melee action game. If it copied Souls, you would be able to rotate the camera around Kratos and there would be a lock-on system. FromSoftware most likely looked at Zelda when they designed their targeting system for Demon's Souls.

 

[Ezekiel]

Realized the quote chain in post 14,878 was messed up for three hours. Fixed.

Some good Souls makes of that available trigger, a parry system so effective and simple that it feels like an exploit.

And the only way they can think of fixing it is to delay the enemies' attacks, which they've been ABUSING since Bloodborne.