From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lyric Suite]

What's so bad about Ornstein and Smough? Just use the pillars.

There's nothing bad about them it seems they are just the first real show stopper for a majority of people.

They are definitely the hardest thing i fought by that point in the game and since after them it's very easy to become overpowered they may be the last truly "shocking" boss encounter a lot of people remember (the next one probably being Kalameet).

 

[Caim]

What's so bad about Ornstein and Smough? Just use the pillars.

There's nothing bad about them it seems they are just the first real show stopper for a majority of people.

They are definitely the hardest thing i fought by that point in the game and since after them it's very easy to become overpowered they may be the last truly "shocking" boss encounter a lot of people remember (the next one probably being Kalameet).

After Bill and Ted there's only a few true showstopper bosses: Artorias, Manus and to a lesser extent Gwyn (until you realize that parrying hard counters him).

 

[Shuruga]

What's so bad about Ornstein and Smough? Just use the pillars.

DS1 was my first souls game (I got the trilogy on one of their rare sales after I played and enjoyed Jedi Fallen Order), and O&S was the only boss fight that gave me real trouble. I think it was partly because there were two very different bosses, there were more options for strategies that might work compared to a single boss. As just one top-level example, who do you try to beat first? Focusing on Ornstein is perhaps obvious because you can outpace Smough, but Orstein pauses between attacks and I found it easier to get attacks in on Smough. I died several times just getting my bearings.

Then once I honed in on a good strategy, I managed to screw up the timing (I had one boss lined up correctly but let the other get at my side, then I got teamed) and/or positioning relative to the pillars frequently enough that I had several bad runs. If I recall correctly there was at least one fight where I was literally one hit away from winning and got over-eager.

In other words, I was acting like a newb and "Just use the pillars" is a valid statement. But I think having two different bosses at once and the corresponding emphasis on timing (and being aware of where both bosses are simultaneously) is why that particular fight threw so many people at first, me included. That said, I enjoyed the challenge and the rest of the bosses were comparatively simple.

Slightly more on topic, I subsequently beat DS2 and still have DS3 in my backlog. Probably I'll pick up ER eventually but I've resisted actually buying it so far.

 

[Silverfish]

I'm not one to say git gud but... git gud.

Why did you feel the need to respond to me before reading the last sentence of the post you quoted? I've been playing these games non-stop for a decade. I passed the git gud loop a long time ago.

I played Dark souls at release unpatched.

Whoa, I certainly haven't done that as recently as a month ago.

What's so bad about Ornstein and Smough? Just use the pillars.

I got greedy and kept getting clipped by one after trying to punish the other's whiffed attacks. I also had no damage, having stuck with a raw claymore and a divine zweihander (with my class' base level faith).

 

[gabel]

Still think O&S is one of the best boss fights in the entire series; difficult, but fair.
Godskin Duo on the other hand? lel, fuck that shit.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

You should try replaying that fight. It's definitely not fair. There's plenty of ways the spear dash can fuck up and stop/start out of no where or come flying at you when you can't possibly see it.

Other than Fatty's rolling (which is beyond bullshit) I don't understand the issue with the duo. They're tough but reasonable. They have nothing on the furry faggots bullshit.

 

[gabel]

In none of my replays do I have much difficulties with O&S.
Granted, I've only beaten the Godskin Duo twice, but that shit feels so spastic and random that I chose to resort to cheese both times (Comet Azure and Mimic Tear with sleep pots respectively). But I'm generally not a huge fan of ER's retarded bosses, so there's that.

 

[Grunker]

Honestly I didn't find O & S that bad. It took me a few tries. Half a dozen or so I think. But DS1 wasn't my first souls game so I was used to grinding on hard bosses. If they weren't so infamous I don't think I would have found that fight particularly noteworthy.

It was my second, and I didn’t even know it was infamous. It also only took me 5-6-7 tries. I just loved the design. I really enjoyed fighting them - felt 100% fair but challenging.

 

[Bloodeyes]

In none of my replays do I have much difficulties with O&S.
Granted, I've only beaten the Godskin Duo twice, but that shit feels so spastic and random that I chose to resort to cheese both times (Comet Azure and Mimic Tear with sleep pots respectively). But I'm generally not a huge fan of ER's retarded bosses, so there's that.

I use sleep pots and bleed for the Godskin Duo. Fuck that fight. If I knew how to chainsaw I would do that instead.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

What's so bad about Ornstein and Smough? Just use the pillars.

Summoned Sunbro Solaire, double-teamed Ornstein and killed him quickly, and although Solaire was then squashed by Super-Sized Smough I used the broken pillars and the bow that I fortunately had equipped to whittle away his health.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Its been days now and I still haven't stopped enjoying being a shitter at 200.

I reverted Bigg G Swaggin, my bleednado build. I was just sick of getting robbed of my blood loss procs by latency.

I'm now playing as Whispering Bones, a death sorcerer This build is much better:

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Should you have the expectation of beating every boss in a souls game? Millennia is a completely broken mess and shouldn't be the way she is (instagib moves + healing + hyper armour + 2 phases, fuck multi phase bosses). But she's also in a hidden area inside a hidden area. What expectations should we have players have of beating every boss in the game? There are other RPGs where the hidden bosses are utterly busted and not expected to be beaten by any one but the severely autistic (Demifiend in DDS, Final fantay has a few). At what point is a boss like Millennia a problem with player expectations and not an intentionally over designed boss pushed too far and ending up in the mess we have?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Eh I am fine Super Boss (sekrit boss in sekrit area requiring you to do sekrit things) to be unfairly hard

ER Bosses still suck donkey balls though design wise

 

[gabel]

Should you have the expectation of beating every boss in a souls game? Millennia is a completely broken mess and shouldn't be the way she is (instagib moves + healing + hyper armour + 2 phases, fuck multi phase bosses). But she's also in a hidden area inside a hidden area. What expectations should we have players have of beating every boss in the game? There are other RPGs where the hidden bosses are utterly busted and not expected to be beaten by any one but the severely autistic (Demifiend in DDS, Final fantay has a few). At what point is a boss like Millennia a problem with player expectations and not an intentionally over designed boss pushed too far and ending up in the mess we have?

Learn her most bs-moves, skill strengh and vitality, 2-hand some colossal sword, use Mimic Tear, and stunlock that POS to death first or second try.

 

[Dadd]

Malenia isn't hard. Its moveset is unintuitive and visually chaotic. Considering your character's severe lack of relative mobility, the fight feels dumb in general.

 

[gabel]

the fight feels dumb in general.

Elden Ring bosses in a nutshell.

 

[Dadd]

the fight feels dumb in general.

Elden Ring bosses in a nutshell.

Melania is much better suited for Sekiro.

 

[Ravielsk]

the fight feels dumb in general.

Elden Ring bosses in a nutshell.

Melania is much better suited for Sekiro.

From what I read online chances are she is literary just a Sekiro boss ported over to Elden Ring. Modders are under the assumption that she is just retooled Tomoe who was cut from Sekiro.

 

[Ravielsk]

Should you have the expectation of beating every boss in a souls game? Millennia is a completely broken mess and shouldn't be the way she is (instagib moves + healing + hyper armour + 2 phases, fuck multi phase bosses). But she's also in a hidden area inside a hidden area. What expectations should we have players have of beating every boss in the game? There are other RPGs where the hidden bosses are utterly busted and not expected to be beaten by any one but the severely autistic (Demifiend in DDS, Final fantay has a few). At what point is a boss like Millennia a problem with player expectations and not an intentionally over designed boss pushed too far and ending up in the mess we have?

There is a theory going around that Melania and the whole area she is in was originally envisioned as DLC content that was being worked on simultaneously with the main game but then was for whatever reason included in the final game in a somewhat unfinished state. I am inclined to believe it because as big as Elden Ring its not really a game you play for the open world but for the "legacy" dungeons(strange to call them that when without them the game would not be worth playing). From probably realized that having a total of about 5 actual levels in the game, especially when absence of those levels would again create huge lore holes, was not going to cut it so they shuffled in everything they had instead of slowly finishing the game with DLC(which already did not work out twice with Sekiro and Bloodborne).

 

[Damned Registrations]

5 actual levels in the game

Dude what are you smoking? Do people actually believe this?

Off the top of my head:

Stormveil
The one in the south with the misbegoten
The Academy
The manor north of it
Volcano manor and the village around it.
That busted castle with the perfumers.
Leyndell
The Sewers
Mohg Palace
Redahn's Castle
Haligrtree
Nokron
Farum Azula

This isn't even counting more minor places like Selia, Castle Sol, the Study hall or that busted divine tower. Honestly I'd include some of the larger minor places too, like the cave shortcut to altus, or the hero graves, which tend to be a lot larger than normal side dungeons.

You skipped every cave, tomb, mine, village and outpost in the game, you'd still have a fuckton of content.

 

[Alrik]

5 actual levels in the game

Dude what are you smoking? Do people actually believe this?

Off the top of my head:

Stormveil
The one in the south with the misbegoten
The Academy
The manor north of it
Volcano manor and the village around it.
That busted castle with the perfumers.
Leyndell
The Sewers
Mohg Palace
Redahn's Castle
Haligrtree
Nokron
Farum Azula

This isn't even counting more minor places like Selia, Castle Sol, the Study hall or that busted divine tower. Honestly I'd include some of the larger minor places too, like the cave shortcut to altus, or the hero graves, which tend to be a lot larger than normal side dungeons.

You skipped every cave, tomb, mine, village and outpost in the game, you'd still have a fuckton of content.

All the underground areas are arguably coherent sequences of levels and the reason I've yet to skip Ranni's quest on a playthrough.

I'd demote Redmane to your Castle Sol tier though and it's probably the worst of the castles as it suffers from the Leyndell problem of a lack of a coherent path with scattered enemies so you're mostly checking disconnected rooms (or alleys in the case of Leyndell). As someone who has just tried Bloodborne for the first time, the difference in quality between Central Yharnam and Leyndell is immense.

 

[Child of Malkav]

From what I read online chances are she is literary just a Sekiro boss ported over to Elden Ring. Modders are under the assumption that she is just retooled Tomoe who was cut from Sekiro.

It's pretty much confirmed at this point with how stupid the fight is.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Should you have the expectation of beating every boss in a souls game? Millennia is a completely broken mess and shouldn't be the way she is (instagib moves + healing + hyper armour + 2 phases, fuck multi phase bosses). But she's also in a hidden area inside a hidden area. What expectations should we have players have of beating every boss in the game? There are other RPGs where the hidden bosses are utterly busted and not expected to be beaten by any one but the severely autistic (Demifiend in DDS, Final fantay has a few). At what point is a boss like Millennia a problem with player expectations and not an intentionally over designed boss pushed too far and ending up in the mess we have?

There is a theory going around that Melania and the whole area she is in was originally envisioned as DLC content that was being worked on simultaneously with the main game but then was for whatever reason included in the final game in a somewhat unfinished state. I am inclined to believe it because as big as Elden Ring its not really a game you play for the open world but for the "legacy" dungeons(strange to call them that when without them the game would not be worth playing). From probably realized that having a total of about 5 actual levels in the game, especially when absence of those levels would again create huge lore holes, was not going to cut it so they shuffled in everything they had instead of slowly finishing the game with DLC(which already did not work out twice with Sekiro and Bloodborne).

I doubt it's true but if it is then From is an utter mess. Finishing a full DLC area and bosses while your most iconic NPC's quest line has to be patched in months later.

 

[Ravielsk]

I doubt it's true but if it is then From is an utter mess. Finishing a full DLC area and bosses while your most iconic NPC's quest line has to be patched in months later.

There is no need to overdramatize this. What most likely happened is that first they made the world, dungeons, animations and so on with NPC quests being at the very tail end of development so when came the time to ship(which is a couple months before release date because you need to print discs for the consoles) certain quests were simply not finalized and so had to be added in a patch.

Also the Haligtree is not really a full DLC area. Its a finished level in terms of geometry but outside of Malenia herself everything in it is just recycled base game enemies. Which about half the reason why people assume it was being worked on as DLC because while its huge its also mostly just recycled content you already saw a everywhere. Its both too big for a simple "hidden" area like Cainhurst but also too barren for a main game legacy dungeon.

That said I see it as From getting better not worse. If the DLC theory is correct than that means they are at the very least learning from the mistakes with Sekiro and Bloodborne where they clearly counted with DLCs being a thing but we all know how that turned out. Sekiro got just a minor costume update and Bloodborne had its two DLCs fused into one, a solid one but still only one. So them for once not relying on DLC bring over about a quarter of content is a positive change for once.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

All the underground areas are arguably coherent sequences of levels and the reason I've yet to skip Ranni's quest on a playthrough.

Yes, the sprawling underground areas constitute a large portion of the substantial proper levels, with the others being large dungeon-like locations:

• Castle Morne
• Stormveil Castle
• Ainsel River / Uhl Palace Ruins
• Raya Lucaria Academy
• Caria Manor
• Siofra River
• Nokron Eternal City
• Ainsel River / Nokstella
• The Shaded Castle
• Lake of Rot
• Volcano Manor
• Leyndell proper
• Deeproot Depths
• Subterranean Shunning-Grounds

Perhaps also Farum Azula, Moghwyn Palace, and the Haligtree / Elphael