From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lyric Suite]

I think the reason the others didn't appeal to me too much was the linearity of those games, or at least that's how they seemed at the time to me. Elden Ring, from what I've gathered, is apparently much more open though to be fair it still has it's linear blockers, I think of a few mandatory points.

Non-linearity isn't always a guaranteed virtue.

DS1 is a 10/10 game between Firelink and Anor Londo and that's when it is at its most linear (relatively speaking. There's still a lot of room to move around in DS1 it's not a literal straight line). The game becomes more open after that but it also drops in quality, in part precisely because you can get overleveled for whichever area you pick last by doing the others first, creating an unbalanced experience (i remember steam rolling over Nito on my first playthrough because i did him last while he kicked my ass on my second character because i went there first).

Elden Ring suffers a bit from this too, with most areas being balanced for a certain SL range only for the difficutly to spike dramatically once you reach those areas that are designated as "late" game. You can experience this abrupt spike early on by going from Caelid to Dragonbarrow, and it's a pretty jarring experience.

If you check the Fextra progress route you can see just how much of the game is balanced for a max SL70 character:

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Game+Progress+Route

By virtue of being non-linear, they couldn't design a proper difficutly curve so a big chunk of the game feels relatively even in terms of challenge, until, suddenly, you get to areas designed for a character with maxed vitality and upgrades.

The thing is that personally i don't even know what they could do to solve this problem. Bethesda tried with that level scaling bullshit and we all know how retarded that was. If you start designing areas with a properly tuned difficulty curve, you lose the non-linearity. If you design them to be non-linear, you lose a balanced progression.

 

[Skinwalker]

I'll probably be extremely burned-out for the DLC if it comes out in the next few months because of my replaying the whole game. Hopefully, they'll delay it until summer.

 

[Child of Malkav]

much of the game is balanced for a max SL70 character

Not disagreeing with you there just that I want to mention that level doesn't matter. Allocation of stats matters. You can be level 300 before Margit/Godrick but if you only put points in HP/stamina/FP you'll still do basic damage and the fight will take just as long.

 

[Barbarian]

You always gotta kill the right-hand man first. Tale as old as time. I wouldn't be opposed to an "outer god" appearing as the big bad. I imagine they look like insects, like that one alien boss you gotta fight a couple times. It's been a while since I played the game, I forgot over half the names.

Outer gods: Greater Will, Rot God, Frenzied Mother, Blood Star, God of Frenzied Flame, Dark Moon, Dragon God. Probably some I'm forgetting.
But nah brah, Godwyn is where it's at. Oh and Miquella. Oh and Malenia round 2. What I said about the DLC team stands the test of time.

I think there is a good chance they could do bloodrot deity or formless mother as a boss.

Spoiler

You visit the place where rot deity is imprisoned after all. Formless mother is also imprisoned underground somewhere

The others I don't see happening. You are given the option to side with frenzyed flame and if you don't it just stays there. Why would you fight it? Dark moon is in outer space and hardly interested in the lands between outside of being Ranni's patron. Ancient dragon deity is probably just another expression of the greater will.

 

[Nathir]

I don't think there will be any fights against an actual outer god.

 

[Barbarian]

Well one of the themes of the game is that the so called "outer" deities need an avatar or representative to manifest in the lands between, right? As in the greater will always having to pick an "empyrean" to rule as a manifest deity.

It gets confusing because we know of these two I mentioned being physically imprisoned in the underground, which removes the "outer" part that the name implies. We also know that the rotgod was defeated and imprisoned by a blind swordsman who was Malenia's master.

 

[Child of Malkav]

You are given the option to side with frenzyed flame and if you don't it just stays there. Why would you fight it?

It opposes everything and its ending is where everything dies. Just chaos, no plan, no order, just edgy shit, reason enough to put it out of its misery.

Dark moon is in outer space and hardly interested in the lands between

If all those deities weren't interested in the lands between they would have left. The thing is they can't do anything as long as Greater Will presides, as it's clearly the most powerful entity, but they bet on you as an agent to overthrow the current order and without you they can't do anything.

Ancient dragon deity is probably just another expression of the greater will.

It seemed to have fucked right off when the GW appeared and left Placidusax frozen in time, isolated until he/she returns.
The same thing with the giants. Godfrey exterminated them. Seems like GW came by and took over, not much opposition.
At least they should expand on the GW since it's clearly a unique specimen in the world if not an outright deity in which case there's nothing you can do against.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I think the reason the others didn't appeal to me too much was the linearity of those games, or at least that's how they seemed at the time to me.

Lol I wouldn't describe Dark Souls as being linear, atleast not the first 2. 3 is pretty fucking linear.

DS1 is a 10/10 game between Firelink and Anor Londo and that's when it is at its most linear (relatively speaking. There's still a lot of room to move around in DS1 it's not a literal straight line).

Man... so much wrong.

DS1 is the least linear of the souls games by a significant margin. There's something like 12 different bosses you can potentially run into next after leaving the tutorial. Granted, a few of those would require some pretty circuitous routes, but generally speaking, as soon as you hit the ground, the world is your oyster. This is owed to the way the map is laid out, with pretty much every area being connected to at least 2 others and those connections generally aren't gated by a boss. Elden Ring is obviously even more open than this, but a lot of the time it doesn't feel that way when you run into some arbitrary wall set by a boss you havne't killed yet. But you could theoretically go pretty much straight from the start to Rykard if you wanted, which is pretty cool.

DS2 is the most linear of the 3 imo, with the player basically being given 4 potential routes to go at the start, 2 of which are realistically accessible to a new player, and all of which end in a dead end. Once you've completed all 4 routes you enter the second half of the game, which is a giant linear slog through like 5 areas, and some of the worst in the game at that. There's no real connectivity, the hub is a crossroads and everything radiates from there. DLCs give a bit more to screw with but realisticaly they're not accessible right away either. The original Demons' Souls was like this as well, except it didn't have the pretense of a connected overworld, so you didn't get weird nonsense like lakes of lava on top of windmills.

DS3 is in sort of a quasi-linear state. There's basically one main path, but side routes constantly branch off from it, so unless you're following a guide to do every side branch ASAP, you'll likely spend the majority of the game with multiple unexplored routes. I don't think I ran out of branches in my path until like the last 25% of the game or so, but some people end up doing every branch ASAP and therefore spend half the game with only one new place to go at a time.

 

[Skinwalker]

DS3 is in sort of a quasi-linear state. There's basically one main path, but side routes constantly branch off from it, so unless you're following a guide to do every side branch ASAP, you'll likely spend the majority of the game with multiple unexplored routes. I don't think I ran out of branches in my path until like the last 25% of the game or so, but some people end up doing every branch ASAP and therefore spend half the game with only one new place to go at a time.

You seem to play souls games like an ADHD-riddled zoomer. Obviously I'm going to fully explore each individual level until there's nothing left to explore, and only then move on to the next level. I can't even fathom constantly abandoning "branches", going to another one, abandoning that one too, going to a third, then back to the first, etc.

It's the worst possible way to play any FS game, even Elden Ring with its huge locations. How dare you show your face itt.

 

[Silva]

DS3 is in sort of a quasi-linear state. There's basically one main path, but side routes constantly branch off from it, so unless you're following a guide to do every side branch ASAP, you'll likely spend the majority of the game with multiple unexplored routes. I don't think I ran out of branches in my path until like the last 25% of the game or so, but some people end up doing every branch ASAP and therefore spend half the game with only one new place to go at a time.

You seem to play souls games like an ADHD-riddled zoomer. Obviously I'm going to fully explore each individual level until there's nothing left to explore, and only then move on to the next level. I can't even fathom constantly abandoning "branches", going to another one, abandoning that one too, going to a third, then back to the first, etc.

It's the worst possible way to play any FS game, even Elden Ring with its huge locations. How dare you show your face itt.

You're missing the fact some of those side paths sometimes become a wall, making you give up for the time being and come back later/when you're stronger.

I'm not saying DS3 is open-ended or anything, but it's certainly not super linear as you make it look, specially with the DLC.

 

[Silva]

The inclusion of Outer gods here was clearly a mistake. They do nothing for the setting except deprotagonize the royal family, which are the stars of the show. So yeah, gimme Godwyn, Miquela and Melina/Gloom Eye Queen in the DLC. Enough "giant insects from space" crap.

Oh, and more Godskins lore please. These guys are badass. This was the first time I actually roleplayed a fatso in a videogame. Cartman the Godskin.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I think the reason the others didn't appeal to me too much was the linearity of those games, or at least that's how they seemed at the time to me.

Lol I wouldn't describe Dark Souls as being linear, atleast not the first 2. 3 is pretty fucking linear.

DS1 is a 10/10 game between Firelink and Anor Londo and that's when it is at its most linear (relatively speaking. There's still a lot of room to move around in DS1 it's not a literal straight line).

Man... so much wrong.

DS1 is the least linear of the souls games by a significant margin. There's something like 12 different bosses you can potentially run into next after leaving the tutorial. Granted, a few of those would require some pretty circuitous routes, but generally speaking, as soon as you hit the ground, the world is your oyster. This is owed to the way the map is laid out, with pretty much every area being connected to at least 2 others and those connections generally aren't gated by a boss. Elden Ring is obviously even more open than this, but a lot of the time it doesn't feel that way when you run into some arbitrary wall set by a boss you havne't killed yet. But you could theoretically go pretty much straight from the start to Rykard if you wanted, which is pretty cool.

DS2 is the most linear of the 3 imo, with the player basically being given 4 potential routes to go at the start, 2 of which are realistically accessible to a new player, and all of which end in a dead end. Once you've completed all 4 routes you enter the second half of the game, which is a giant linear slog through like 5 areas, and some of the worst in the game at that. There's no real connectivity, the hub is a crossroads and everything radiates from there. DLCs give a bit more to screw with but realisticaly they're not accessible right away either. The original Demons' Souls was like this as well, except it didn't have the pretense of a connected overworld, so you didn't get weird nonsense like lakes of lava on top of windmills.

DS3 is in sort of a quasi-linear state. There's basically one main path, but side routes constantly branch off from it, so unless you're following a guide to do every side branch ASAP, you'll likely spend the majority of the game with multiple unexplored routes. I don't think I ran out of branches in my path until like the last 25% of the game or so, but some people end up doing every branch ASAP and therefore spend half the game with only one new place to go at a time.

Pfft, Dark Souls 2 is MORE linear than 3? This nigga out his damn mind.




3 is literally a straight line with like one side path.

 

[9ted6]

The inclusion of Outer gods here was clearly a mistake. They do nothing for the setting except deprotagonize the royal family, which are the stars of the show. So yeah, gimme Godwyn, Miquela and Melina/Gloom Eye Mother in the DLC. Enough "giant insects from space" crap.

But muh hecking cthulurinos

 

[Skinwalker]

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Yeah I didn't expect the image to be a blurry mess. You get the idea though.

 

[Skinwalker]

So what's the deal with White Mask Varre? He acts creepily familiar, keeps calling the PC his "lambkin", and keeps stressing the fact that you are M A I D E N L E S S.

The reason you're maidenless, of course, is that your maiden is lying dead in a pool of blood when you arrive into the Lands Between through the fog. And, after you emerge from the tutorial tunnel, Varre is already there, as if he was expecting you. Did he kill our maiden?

Then he takes you on a very groomer-adjacent questline that culminates with him admitting you into the Mohgwyn dynasty and giving you a medal (which he "went out of his way to get for you") that can teleport you into Mohg's Mausoleum. And then tells you not to use it. My lambkin. (A lambkin is an iconic sacrificial animal.)

...

So... was this all some kind of weird set-up to get a Tarnished to end up in Mohg's secret bunker and get fucked sacrificed? Is it the same kind of plot that the Volcano Manor is doing, where Tarnished are lured in with a bunch of promises, made to kill other Tarnished, and then as a "reward" get sacrificed to their horrible faction leader? Or was he genuinely giving you a place in the new dynasty and then you ruin it by going there too soon?

P. S. I forgot that Rykard's giant snake is yet another "god" creature that has its own worshippers (temple of Eiglay or something). Maybe this one represents the poison status effect?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I played the game with a general faith/dex build and over the course of the run I found a great many viable weapons, ashes, spells, and summons. Mostly stuck to holy and fire damage, but went through spears, one handed, dual wielding, two handed, bleed, ice, etc. All without respeccing too. I never felt the game was too hard, and never resorted to degenerate tactics like pulling every single enemy and pushing them off ledges. Compared to Sekiro, game is a cakewalk.

Seems like a skill issue.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah I didn't expect the image to be a blurry mess. You get the idea though.

I've seen images like that before, they're bullshit though and only show the physical connections, ignoring which areas are actually gated behind others via keys and such. The areas connected to shaded woods look like a non linear exploration paradise, but in reality they don't exist. After you get all 4 lord souls, each at the end of their own chain of ~3 bosses each, the path converges and you do Drangleic > A Shrine > Crypt > Aerie > D Shrine > Dream > Throne. Each of those areas has a boss (or two), and regardless of where they are physically in the game, you WILL do them in that order. It's a fucking slog and the reason I never replay the game.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I never felt the game was too hard, and never resorted to degenerate tactics

Luckily however I just happened to have a +25 Bleeding Twinblade w/ Bloodhound Step I use for PvP.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Yeah I didn't expect the image to be a blurry mess. You get the idea though.

I've seen images like that before, they're bullshit

Almost as bullshit as claiming Dark Souls 2 is more linear than 3. Throw 2's DLCs into the mix and it's not even remotely close. Claiming 2 is the most linear is downright delusional. Dark Souls 3 has about as many branching paths as a Call of Duty campaign.

 

[Multidirectional]

Compared to Sekiro, game is a cakewalk.

Seems like a skill issue.

And to me Sekiro is a cakewalk compared to Elden Ring, which was one of the most annoying games ever, especially in late game. After taking days to beat Mohg without summons I didn't have it in me anymore to do the rest of the bosses properly and just started summoning players for majority of the following fights. I still ended up doing last boss alone as the other players proved useless against it and only made it harder. And what an utter biggest garbage boss it was too, in a game full of them. All these claims that this game is easy make me think I must've been missing half the combat mechanics or something. To me both ER and Dark Souls III were just very annoying games where I didn't feel in control of combat at all and bosses were hard to read, which is a complete opposite of Sekiro. I would just keep rolling around like a retard for majority of fight until I finally got a lucky run and didn't really feel like I got good at the fight afterwards. And I was using a bleed build with Rivers of Blood in ER, which is supposedly game breaking OP shit. Maybe Souls combat just isn't for me, the last game in series where it didn't feel like random bullshit to me was DS II. In DS III and ER it just felt like enemies were the ones having all the fun, being very agile and able to do long combos and I'm just stuck with a slow useless character that is constantly running out of stamina and is almost always on the defensive.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

they're bullshit though and only show the physical connections, ignoring which areas are actually gated behind others via keys and such.

Nah
Only the more simple ones don't shown "requirements" of each level
And from the looks of it, that map progression flowchart seems to be all captioned
Also physical connections do speak towards the map's non-linearity

Even without the DLC, DS2 is less linear than DS3 with it's DLC

 

[Damned Registrations]

FFS apparently I need to break out the crayons and draw you retards a picture. Also, LOL at all the maps of DS2 that include shit like the belfries. Literaly a tiny ass pvp arena, shown as though it's a whole fucking area. Cathedral of Blue is like counting the fucking Rotting Greatwood room as an entire level. The bias is ridiculous.

 

[Child of Malkav]

FFS apparently I need to break out the crayons and draw you retards a picture. Also, LOL at all the maps of DS2 that include shit like the belfries. Literaly a tiny ass pvp arena, shown as though it's a whole fucking area. Cathedral of Blue is like counting the fucking Rotting Greatwood room as an entire level. The bias is ridiculous.

Dude, you hate DkS2.
What an original, unique take. I'm amazed, we all are, truly.
Now move on.

 

[Riddler]

Compared to Sekiro, game is a cakewalk.

Seems like a skill issue.

And to me Sekiro is a cakewalk compared to Elden Ring, which was one of the most annoying games ever, especially in late game. After taking days to beat Mohg without summons I didn't have it in me anymore to do the rest of the bosses properly and just started summoning players for majority of the following fights. I still ended up doing last boss alone as the other players proved useless against it and only made it harder. And what an utter biggest garbage boss it was too, in a game full of them. All these claims that this game is easy make me think I must've been missing half the combat mechanics or something. To me both ER and Dark Souls III were just very annoying games where I didn't feel in control of combat at all and bosses were hard to read, which is a complete opposite of Sekiro. I would just keep rolling around like a retard for majority of fight until I finally got a lucky run and didn't really feel like I got good at the fight afterwards. And I was using a bleed build with Rivers of Blood in ER, which is supposedly game breaking OP shit. Maybe Souls combat just isn't for me, the last game in series where it didn't feel like random bullshit to me was DS II. In DS III and ER it just felt like enemies were the ones having all the fun, being very agile and able to do long combos and I'm just stuck with a slow useless character that is constantly running out of stamina and is almost always on the defensive.

I really don't understand this. The fights are easy and the bosses generally telegraph their moves well.

The one issue I had with elden ring is that some Bosses seem to be turned for summons and the overpowered tools while others weren't, leading to an uneven experience and some bosses being either hard as shit or trivial depending on whether you used average weapons or the overpowered stuff. (At least this was the case at release, maybe things have been rebalanced since)

In DS3 you can easily beat any boss with any weapon.

In Elden ring i rolled very little. Perhaps the issue is that you're trying to roll too much?