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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
if anything there need to be more boss fights where you go offensive instead of "roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, attack ONCE(if you missed this opportunity - roll 20 more times until next window. if you tried to attack more than once - you are dead.)"
I don't disagree but it needs to be properly balanced. I got to an early knight bosses's second phase twice and died to it. Next time round I burst them down so fast they never got to play the 2nd phase animation. If you get some decent moves you can burst bosses with bleed or frost. It's sad that From have balanced the DLC around proccing status like these and then some times you get massive bursts because bosses get stuck in a long recovery move twice in a row.
Milady has got to be my new favorite weapon I love this thing, so good
I really liked it but it's guard counter is pretty terrible. Some of the new enemies are best blocked and countered until you get a stagger. It's boring but it's the best option if you can't pancake them. No homing fireball while a 5 hit combo plays out if you counter off the first hit and get a stagger.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,591
Then you will change your mind toward the end: many unfun bosses with questionable hitboxes and full AOEs all over the place. It's doable; I did it, but it was unfun. Additionally, in all the DLC, there isn't a single new sorcery I found worth using. I had to resort to Rock Sling to stagger bosses or just an ice build on Mesmer. Not a single new thing was of use to me.

I have heard that one finger sorcery is great to stun lock enemies but didn't got it yet.

So far the hardest boss that I beat is mesmer. He was quite hard. Took 14 tries for me to beat and I had to unequip the ring who makes me deal more mag damage and take more damage and use the defense boost + easy to stag in the mix to win against him.

I just tried using a Larval Tear to get 80 INT and 80 Arcane, and a fully maxed Maternal Staff to boost Finger Magic, plus the Magic Robe (altered). The Fingernails spell is like Star of Ruin but a lot more cost-efficient, though sadly slower. The Fleeting Microcoms spell has good damage and throws enemies around, but it only affects small enemies, which you won't have trouble with in any case. However, it works and is cost-efficient too. Cherishing Fingers is too situational and slow for my taste as you need to charge it to full effect. It works, but I don't think Finger Sorcery is worth switching builds for; you do just as well with normal sorcery. I don't see any bonus in it.
 

Dobkeratops

Literate
Joined
May 14, 2024
Messages
13
In some alternate universe where Fromsoft failed to up the ante with this DLC, the entire internet is crapping on them for losing their touch. I'm not especially happy with Rellana but people really dive into the diva histrionics over everything these days.

Since Demon's Souls this series has always been about getting killed by some bullshit, raging and persevering (by abusing the numerous tools available) to muddle through. I wonder if Fromsoft is at all taken back with how many people are screeching about the game having the audacity to kill them while they're doing some variety of self-challenge run.

I think the DLC's bigger issues are as some have already mentioned: blessings being a crappy mechanic that won't age well on subsequent plays, map exploration being funneled through caves, a lot of the new loot being of questionable balance.
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
3,368
You should try reading some of the guides for how to beat bosses in Elden Ring. I opened one yesterday to check I'd beaten all the bosses before I started the last one and they had difficulty ratings by them and literally every boss guide was "Use Comet Azur and summon mimic tear". That's the entire strategy the game journos have been using to beat the game.
Why would I care about retards that read guides before playing a game or journalists? Neither does From considering the amount of exploring in their games that has absolutely 0 value for that crowd.

Dark souls 2 marketing confirmed From are aware of their reputation and they keep ramping up the difficulty and complexity to keep the reputation going and because they have to escalate.
They keep ramping up the complexity because their tooling got better and better and more and more of their ideas can be implemented.

I don't think the difficulty went up (unless you self limit) and certainly ER has the most hand holding early on.
And for the people that self limit and want to master the games, having harder and harder challenges should be a plus (that is if they do it out of pleasure and not because all the cool kids are doing it).
 

Crayll

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
192
Personally I would much rather have a game that's too difficult initially, even if it feels unfair, than one that's too easy. You can sleepwalk through nearly every game out there because they're intended for the majority of the audience to be able to complete, and the modern gamer is functionally retarded. It's nice to have at least one game that slaps your shit in at first without having to resort to doing challenge runs that remove 90% of the fun.

Finding the difficulty sweet spot was always going to be difficult for From as people expect more and more of a challenge as their games go on. I'd like to see a slower game with more punishing mechanics and resource management like DeS, but I'll take what I can get out of the modern gaming shitshow.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
Shitposter
Joined
Feb 7, 2024
Messages
2,918
If you don't like how hard the games are then don't play them. Simple!!! Go play something more accessible and hand holdy like the rest of the losers. I sincerely hope that anybody who tries to get my games nerfed dies in a fire.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
I don't think the difficulty went up (unless you self limit) and certainly ER has the most hand holding early on.
And for the people that self limit and want to master the games, having harder and harder challenges should be a plus (that is if they do it out of pleasure and not because all the cool kids are doing it).
I've always played From games the same way. Shield + dex weapon (usually a katana because I like how versatile they are). I roll and I hit stuff with my katana until it dies. I don't use buffs, I don't use player or NPC summons and I don't abuse exploits. In Erdtree I have run into stuff I would call bullshit more often than not. Even with mimic tear I'm struggling to say these bosses are fair. I know this is release week and next patch will nerf the fuck out of them like they did with Radahn in the base game. The problem with the current difficulty is you can't dance with the bosses the way you used to because so many have cinematic attacks they blow up the whole area. They're annoying to learn since they usually 1 hit you and they're difficult to read how to avoid. I don't like having to put my shield up and accept a chunk of life lost but some of this stuff is barely readable explosions.
Personally I would much rather have a game that's too difficult initially, even if it feels unfair, than one that's too easy. You can sleepwalk through nearly every game out there because they're intended for the majority of the audience to be able to complete, and the modern gamer is functionally retarded. It's nice to have at least one game that slaps your shit in at first without having to resort to doing challenge runs that remove 90% of the fun.

Finding the difficulty sweet spot was always going to be difficult for From as people expect more and more of a challenge as their games go on. I'd like to see a slower game with more punishing mechanics and resource management like DeS, but I'll take what I can get out of the modern gaming shitshow.
I agree I would rather have a difficult game than an easy one. But I would like From to do difficulty in unexpected ways not just the roll catches and huge AOEs with awkward dodge windows. I want a boss that requires you to dodge their stuff and find openings between attacks. But I want them not to be designed to punish you for reacting instinctively. A good boss should flow with the players intentions once the player knows what to do while these ones don't.

I'll even say they actually went backwards in this one. The final boss has a design flaw from a Dark souls 1 boss. It's a fun attack to see but it sucks how it's balanced because you can't commit to attacking into it in case it's the multi attack with the same start up animation.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,087
Location
Romania
Been exploring legacy dungeons and other places in ER lately and I switched it up. Basically I went in quietly with the intention of clearing an area by eliminating threats one by one without resting at any bonfire.
Used Mohg's spear ash of war to kill enemies through walls, floors, ceilings and as such prevented ambushes, used arrows to draw enemies one by one to me, used poisoned arrows to kill enemies that's couldn't get to me, used great arrows to push enemies off ledges, used assassin's gambit to traverse areas and reposition in a more tactically advantageous location, used sleep pots on enemies to either get by them or kill them easily, used bewitching branches on enemies to turn them against one another, used fingerprint shield with antspur rapier and other weapons in case of direct confrontation, used spells like ancient death rancor and ancient dragon lightning strike from up close on groups of enemies as well as adula moonblade and so many other tools for different situations or enemy group compositions.
Anyway, the amount of fun I had while doing this cannot adequately be put into words. This kind of gameplay is what I like in souls games. Plus it gets intense after a while.
Way better than any boss fight.
Imagine if ER world/map had the same sense of danger and hazards and traps as DeS/DkS1/DkS2 and 60% less bonfires so that it forces you to weigh the risks and rewards of infiltrating or assaulting a location despite being overwhelmed numerically by the enemy.
 

Stoned Ape

Savant
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
893
Location
The belly of the whale
Been exploring legacy dungeons and other places in ER lately and I switched it up. Basically I went in quietly with the intention of clearing an area by eliminating threats one by one without resting at any bonfire.
Used Mohg's spear ash of war to kill enemies through walls, floors, ceilings and as such prevented ambushes, used arrows to draw enemies one by one to me, used poisoned arrows to kill enemies that's couldn't get to me, used great arrows to push enemies off ledges, used assassin's gambit to traverse areas and reposition in a more tactically advantageous location, used sleep pots on enemies to either get by them or kill them easily, used bewitching branches on enemies to turn them against one another, used fingerprint shield with antspur rapier and other weapons in case of direct confrontation, used spells like ancient death rancor and ancient dragon lightning strike from up close on groups of enemies as well as adula moonblade and so many other tools for different situations or enemy group compositions.
Anyway, the amount of fun I had while doing this cannot adequately be put into words. This kind of gameplay is what I like in souls games. Plus it gets intense after a while.
Way better than any boss fight.
Imagine if ER world/map had the same sense of danger and hazards and traps as DeS/DkS1/DkS2 and 60% less bonfires so that it forces you to weigh the risks and rewards of infiltrating or assaulting a location despite being overwhelmed numerically by the enemy.
I largely agree with you. The most fun part of the game for me is exploring locations and using the tools the game makes available for dealing with any issues I encounter while doing so. For me the boss battles are more of a road block to bypass than an aspect of the game I look forward to engaging with.
 

Vorark

Erudite
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,471
They released a newspiece just to tell players they're fucking dumb to explore and look for those seeds/crystals/whatever. :lol:

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1245620/view/4175480871073659336

Tips: How to strengthen your character in Shadow of the Erdtree

In the expansion Shadow of the Erdtree, players can be strengthened by collecting and using “Scadutree Fragments” and “Revered Spirit Ash.”

If you get stuck in the game, explore various areas and look for the items “Scadutree Fragments” and “Revered Spirit Ashes”, which are necessary to strengthen your character in the Realm of Shadow.

Note: This enhancement is only available in Expansion areas.
 

Stoned Ape

Savant
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
893
Location
The belly of the whale
Just poked the dancing lion to death with my new greatspear while hiding behind my shield. With the help of the Redmane ally I did it first time without dropping under half health at any point.

I don't expect this tactic to work against every boss, but so far it's been extremely effective:

1) Buff (flask of Wondrous Physik with defence buff and stamina regen tears, then Golden Vow and Flame Grant Me Strength)
2) Hide behind shield and poke until boss' stance is broken
3) Blackflame Tornado Ash of War or crit
4) Drink a heal flask if necessary, then return to step 2

Talismans are Great Jar Arsenal, Green Turtle, Greatshield, Dragoncrest Greatshield.

ELDEN-RING-25-06-2024-22-51-26-1.png
 
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Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,928
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Ive read there's a lot of Bloodborne stuff here. I saw a screenshot with a body armor and hat straight out of a Yharnam hunter. Is that true? Which attire is that?
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,211
Location
Lusitânia
Delayed attacks
Not a problem in itself, but it becomes one when it's being aggravated by other lazy design choices (long combos, tracking, animation cancelling, underhanded input reading, exagerated hitboxes and range, etc.)
After applying these factors, the delayed attacks are nothing more than an irritating stupid gotcha
Still they could be relatively tolerable, if From used them sparsely
super fast combos
The problem here is the disparity between the speed and agility of PC and the enemy bosses
The PC is still figthing by the DeS principles of being "grounded" and "methodical", somewhat (BB changed that dynamic of course)
Meanwhile the late game bosses might as well have came out of Ninja Gaiden 2, as even in their basic combos they are spazzing out almost as hard as Ryu during an UT
"tracking" (whatever that means)
It means that before you deem From's fighting game design to be excellent, you should at least familirize yourself with the basic concepts of fighting game design
Essentially it's the degree to which a character can automatically "adjust" himself and "guide" an attack towards a moving target
It's a property that should be applied to select attacks with restrain, which From doesn't seem to possess

Really when you figure all these elements together, along the others I mentioned in the parentheses of my first line, what you have are the hallmarks of those quarter munching arcade final bosses
Sure, they were hard as nails, but they were also complete bullshit devoid any elegant mechanical design
Which is ironic, given that the design quality of the storytelling aspects weaved into these boss battles are the strongest they've ever beem - From has mastered that "fable"/narrative side, but degenerated into the worst qualities of the game side
My guess is that 90% people instead of learning how to play the game ended up brute forcing their way through bosses using cheese. You can't do this in the DLC because stats have been maxed. Elden Ring was a bit like this too towards the end.
And that is also a BIG problem
Perhaps even more so than the previous issues

I mean, like it's DS predecessors, ER is sold as an RPG
It has a fairly robust character building system, hundreds of equipment pieces and dozens of magical abilities, all pooling up to millions of possible character builds
Plus there is no official text, both in-game and out-game (From's own marketing), that discourage experimentation and diversity of playstyles (in fact it always the other way around)
All of this creates the expectation that these options, at least the majority of them, are viable enough to allow the player to reach the credits screen

So, for most of the campgain the player can go about the various challenges however he choses
Everything in the mechanics support that and the sandbox open-world format further reinforces it - "Getting your ass kicked? No worries, go do something else, clear some trash dungeons, farm a bit, explore that other area. Then come back after 30 levels, give or take, and rofl stomp everything in your path."
But then, by the very final strecth of the campgain - and now the greater part of the DLC - the game turns around and says "Liking your current build? Well fuck you, you were actually meant to play like X the whole time."

Either way you look at it, this is a serious problem
 
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processdaemon

Scholar
Patron
Joined
Jul 14, 2023
Messages
638
Finished the game and (final fight spoilers) I'm really disappointed with the ending, both the boss fight and the story behind it. I hated that a bunch of the attacks in phase 2 are illusions since it feels cheap to me, Miquella's snuggle attack is one of the stupidest looking things I've ever seen in a FromSoft game and I still don't understand why they went down the route of having him go after Radahn when the base game seemed to be setting up him trying to fully kill or resurrect Godwyn (which I suspect would have gone horribly wrong given that we know that Godwyn's soul is dead, but watching it go horribly wrong and seeing what monstrosity we'd have to fight as a result would have been more interesting than what we got).

What's most confusing to me is that it's not like FromSoft has totally lost their touch; Bayle, Senessax, Midra and Metyr were all varying levels of good to great and had either cool quests or interesting lore surrounding them, so they're still capable of designing fun bosses, they just completely fumbled the final fight and surrounding story. It's a pity because there's a lot to recommend in this DLC, from the optional boss fights to more likeable NPCs to art design that is fantastic at times, but the very last stretch put such a bitter taste in my mouth that now I'd only recommend it to someone with the caveat that they should try to think as little about the overarching plot as possible (and fully upgrade a good shield for the final fight).
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
Ive read there's a lot of Bloodborne stuff here. I saw a screenshot with a body armor and hat straight out of a Yharnam hunter. Is that true? Which attire is that?
There's a lot of Bloodborne stuff in the game and it even uses the same names. It's a really cheaply made DLC.
Finished the game and (final fight spoilers) I'm really disappointed with the ending, both the boss fight and the story behind it. I hated that a bunch of the attacks in phase 2 are illusions since it feels cheap to me, Miquella's snuggle attack is one of the stupidest looking things I've ever seen in a FromSoft game and I still don't understand why they went down the route of having him go after Radahn when the base game seemed to be setting up him trying to fully kill or resurrect Godwyn (which I suspect would have gone horribly wrong given that we know that Godwyn's soul is dead, but watching it go horribly wrong and seeing what monstrosity we'd have to fight as a result would have been more interesting than what we got).

What's most confusing to me is that it's not like FromSoft has totally lost their touch; Bayle, Senessax, Midra and Metyr were all varying levels of good to great and had either cool quests or interesting lore surrounding them, so they're still capable of designing fun bosses, they just completely fumbled the final fight and surrounding story. It's a pity because there's a lot to recommend in this DLC, from the optional boss fights to more likeable NPCs to art design that is fantastic at times, but the very last stretch put such a bitter taste in my mouth that now I'd only recommend it to someone with the caveat that they should try to think as little about the overarching plot as possible (and fully upgrade a good shield for the final fight).
Finished it myself just now after switching from an Ant shield to the Great Erdtree shield to stop the chip damage. The ending is absolutely fucking nothing. Even by From's standards this is insulting. It would have been more of an ending if someone walked into McDonalds and filmed the staff asking what you wanted to order. Complete bullshit.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The final boss has some bullshit moves I couldn't figure out how to dodge.
His gravity AOE is random if you dodge it or not. I just ran away and hoped. I couldn't see any other way to do it. His Dragon ball attack spam was confusing and I didn't figure out a way either so I shielded and accepted the stamina loss.

St Trinia being a different person to tranny boy was interesting but everything else fell flat for me. The game is so phoned in story wise and all the effort has gone on the NPCs. Which had a great pay off in the Leda fight being a big gang bang of phantoms. I thought that was neat.

I really liked the double bug lady as a boss. Probably my highlight of the game in general. Great design with fun fight attached. Really enjoyed her.

The floating islands can go fuck themselves like the little fucking kike map designer who thought they were a good idea. Trying to find the last few upgrades was hellish because the map doesn't show you how to get up or down cliffs and the map is about 4 tiers. If you need to be on tier 2 you're fucked with any graces on 3 or 4.

The finger ruins were cool but under used. I loved the ocean fingers you see from the dragon location but the ones you explore are completely empty. Which is a shame. That quest line had merit.
 

Crayll

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
192
Just beat the final boss as well. Ended up finishing at 18 blessings, level 180. Personally I enjoyed it, but I'm autistic and enjoy fighting the same boss for 10 hours. I still think Isshin is the most difficult in terms of the player skill needed, but this was #2 easily.

Overall I loved the DLC, aside from complaints about the final boss there's no excuse for not enjoying this if you liked the base game. The level design is easily on par with the better parts of that (Stormveil, Leyndell, Shunning Grounds) and is consistently better with less filler and copypaste tedium. I thought all the bosses aside from the final one were very fair, and even the last boss doesn't have crazy attack patterns, there's just a lot of shit going on (and it's really hard to see what's happening).

Generally the story was well done. The NPCs were the highlight, unlike base ER it was easy to track where they were going and it made sense when they moved on, and because the DLC map is dense you encountered each again naturally instead of having to jump around a huge world for no reason trying to find them.
The group fight in the shadow tower was a perfect culmination to everyone's arcs, actually got an emotional response out of me.

Didn't like the ending. The idea of taking a character that was already built up, but not really seen, and letting you fight them at the peak of their power is good. Making that non-crazy Radahn is really strange. Godwyn would've made way more sense, especially considering there were already item descriptions in the base game that described how Miquella felt about Godwyn's death. I can't recall any prior indication of a dynamic between Miqeulla and Radahn. Very odd decision all around.

For all the shitflinging that happened when the leaks came out, I didn't pick up much of a gay dynamic between Miquella and Radahn. Mohg's cutscene was more homo and now he's no longer a gay pedophile as we found out it was all due to Miquella's charm mind control.

Navigators, unite. Any hints/help accessing these parts of the map?
4C2426C78598522F792284181B58DD3DC3E6C78F
The entrance to that area is where it looks like it is. Try gesturing.
You get a gesture from Bonnie Village, use it in front of the Marika statue next to the grace before the boar man fight
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,542
Never ceases to amaze me. Huge game hasn't even been out for a week yet and people are already finishing it. I'm in full support of hardcore gaming, but goddamn guys. Don't forget to slow down and savor the meal!
 

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,919
Location
Poland
As always, someone is destroying every boss with ease
 

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