From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Basshead]

I’ve played through a lot of the dlc now. I’m just before Messmer and have explored most of the map. Still some Rauh ruins left to go, didn’t go to abyssal woods, the back entrance to the keep or the end areas.

Honestly, most of the time it’s been pretty shit. The bosses and enemies have too much hp and do too much damage at first. I’ve collected a ton of blessings and now that’s not such a problem. The bosses basically require summons or a mimic tear to not be frustrating. They swing faster than you, have unpredictable large aoe attacks that produce status ailments, and can fly across the arena. Not enjoyable, as solo it’s a chore with you often getting one shot on entering. With the summons and mimic tear it’s basically a breeze.

The levels are mostly empty. Jagged peaks is cool but there’s nothing there but repetitive dragon fights. Even finding these areas is a pain as there is no logic to exploring. You often have to go the opposite way of where it appears on the map to find some random cave. In addition you can explore 76% of an area with no map because the map fragment isn’t anywhere to be found and won’t be for quite awhile.

The blessings are kind of shit too. They feel totally necessary even at a super high level, yet you have to explore randomly to ever find them. Other than that it’s endless crafting materials, repeated enemies, and vast emptiness. Playing this I was reminded of lost izalith a lot, especially in Rauh ruins. It just feels like there’s no soul to most of this stuff. It feels like pointless busy work. The series feels done. Exploration is no longer meaningful, the level design is questionable and the combat has reached its end point where there’s nothing left to do but let enemies cheat and pump their stats to absurd levels. The base game wasn’t great either but this dlc takes the whole thing to new lows. My initial impressions were good but most of the time playing im just annoyed. Sekiro was such a better designed game than this and it seems they’ve totally abandoned everything that was so great about it. As it stands, I would have rather replayed that than played through this. Soulless souls.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I am going through the game again, this time with a melee character, in hopes of taking my character all the way to the dlc. I'm feeling the game is much much easier now. Is it just me or they actually downgraded the difficulty?

I think you just got good.

 

[Sunri]

This dlc is bizarre, it really went from hardcore hard to extremely easy

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

It's the best DLC since The Old Hunters.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Alright, i'm now too curious to let this go, so i decided to fight off my resistance and start playing this thing, probably starting some time next week we'll see.

Right now i'm prepping up my toon, and i decided to pick up my original SL150 character for this, since that one was already set up for transitioning to NG+ or an eventual DLC, everything in the base game having been completed 100%. Also, i assume most people playing this will be high level as well, so SL150 should net me some decent connectivity in case i want to do multiplayer.

If you guys remember i had some kind of dragonic, bleed arcane fighting priest dude. For the DLC, i think i'm going to switch to a full faith build. I opted for the frenziend ending with this character so i'm going to go full holy to make amends. Going in butt naked, basically relying exclusively on "found" DLC weapons and armors, or at most stuff i couldn't use in the base game (like Marika's hammer here). This is not for the challenge i'm just going to do this to threat this DLC as a completely separate game so i want to maximize the feel of starting fresh and rely on the new stuff as much as i can. This was the set up i had in mind for this toon in case i transitioned to NG+ so i guess i'll just roll with it now:

 

[MasPingon]

I got a dreadful feeling this thread will become "Lyric Suite plays Elden Ring" again.

 

[abija]

beats "I powered through in 3 days but trust me bro game is brokenly hard"

 

[Bloodeyes]

When their jump is extremely difficult to dodge.

Funny thing you are not supposed to dodge any of that. The way you deal with them is that you jump over the fires. I only know this because I saw it on Youtube because when you look at it you are still physically in contact with the flame but I-frames carry you through.

The single stamp is easy to jump but the double foot jump I could never find a way to dodge.

Fight them on torrent. Jump the stomps and for the double foot jumps ride away a bit so the AOE doesn't hit you, then jump the flames. Its harder (impossible?) to jump them if you ride too far away though as you just land back on them. Ride away without sprinting and turn your camera when it jumps, then single jump the fire. For the storm of projectiles sprint diagonally away (on torrent) and strafe it.

Craft a few rowa raisins to heal torrent so you don't lose flasks reviving him when you fuck up. Using a striking weapon like a greathammer is good. Dagger talisman and a soft swap misericorde helps with damage on the riposte and flamedrake talisman helps keep you alive. I think I'm like 80% though the DLC now and fighting them is pretty breezy at this point.

For the one with armored legs I put flame art affinity no-skill on a redmane greatshield and used that to keep me alive while I approached. Then I threw a couple hefty furnace pots in it because I found a hint that told me to do that. It worked very well. I kept the greatshield and used it to shit on fire knights with guard counters later in the game.

Using problem solving to overcome difficult obstacles is what makes games fun.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Next week i get paid i have half a mind of actually buying this just so i can see this shit for myself.

Its From Software's best game. Codexers will shit on anything then have nostalgia for it 10 years later. Don't let that make you miss out. SOTE is fucking amazing

 

[Shurakan]

Bought this game months ago but never finished it.

Only just now got back into it thanks to DLC hype (though I haven't bought it yet).

Went in sort of wondering what made me drop it at different times in the past.

After finally getting past Giant frosty mountain and deciding to go fight everyone, finishing the game and then starting a new game with a different character I think I got a good grasp on why I had lost interest. Nothing I'm about to say is particularly new, but I agree with those that don't find the giant expanse all that great. It certainly looks pretty and as far as open worlds go it ain't bad, but it's unrewarding to cross vast regions, kill dozens of enemies and kill a boss just to end up finding things you can't use. Of course, you can explore and fight for the sake of it, which should be rewarding in and of itself which is where my biggest gripe comes in. I just don't think the combat holds up.

Others have spoken about wack bosses but rather than difficulty I think the problem is the really bad pacing and reward. I've got more than 2k hours in both Nioh games and probably just as many in the Monster Hunter games and the reasons why are that those games have what I would call rewarding combat. For comparison, I've played DS1 and 3 and found both to have more enjoyable bosses (with a few notable exceptions) despite their relative simplicity compared to ER where about half the bosses aspire to be Nameless King.

None of the tools the ER bosses use are evil by themselves but when they load every cunt with gotchas, variable combo enders, input reads, etc. they make very dull battles where I don't have any real initiative to do anything. This results in romantic moments where me and the boss will lovingly stare into each other's eyes for 5 full seconds before something happens. Watch in stunning amazement as a boss steal turns again and again by stopping his combos just before the punishable ender or cancelling his recovery into a rocket fart propelled leap into orbit or a 20 foot side step with 2 full seconds of invulnerability. Then, on top of that, if you respond by attacking when you think he's canceled, he can cancel the cancel, since some will counterattack as an immediate response to you having the audacity to want to play the game. Even when I can fight a boss with my eyes closed it really is godawful just watching enemies complete whole feature length choreographed dance routines just to be rewarded with gentle yet firm slap on the enemy's ass. That kind of thing should be reserved for one's wife.

In the other games I've mentioned there are bosses like that, but the respective communities correctly calls them out as garbage bosses. AT Nergigante has a move that could be called his Waterfowl Dance and just like with WD everyone hated it. The whole fight with Nerg is dominated by a single move that's actually even worse than WD because he can cancel recoveries into it, it's one of his fastest starting moves, has relatively fast recovery, is homing and even with full health and defense buffs deals 80% of your hp.

Something both Nioh and MH get right is the reward for doing well. In ER you'll watch 10 second boss cutscenes over and over and when you finally poise break you get at best 2 button presses and a pre-canned 2 seconds too long animation you got tired of seeing hours ago. In Nioh, you drain stamina, then start performing MarvelvsCapcom combos on the guy. In MH you'll score a knockdown and the moves you can now use feel suitably powerful, adequate to the effort you spent getting that opening.

Now, I haven't played the DLC, but I overall found both Nioh2's late game and certain specific fights in MH to be harder than anything in ER but I still enjoyed those bosses.

I think the real issue is something that, while associated with difficulty, goes beyond it. The short version, I just think the bosses and many enemies aren't fun to fight. I would venture to say they play much better when you allow yourself to use spirit summons since the insanely unpredictable aggro giving you some openings helps the fights feel more active. It is true that some summons are just so busted good that they trivialize the fights but let's be honest, ez mode builds and tools aren't exactly new to the franchise.

I'll keep fooling around on my new character and see how I feel after awhile before deciding on whether to get the DLC now or wait till a sale.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Good post
But don't expect Frombabies to understand
Despite barely playing any figthing/hack 'n' slash games outside of Dark Souls, they'll keep insisting on the strawman that our problem is the "difficulty" and not the underlying mechanical design

 

[MasPingon]

Next week i get paid i have half a mind of actually buying this just so i can see this shit for myself.

Its From Software's best game. Codexers will shit on anything then have nostalgia for it 10 years later. Don't let that make you miss out. SOTE is fucking amazing

Overall, after add on, it can be considered best FS game, but I think Bloodborne still hold the candle. The fact Shadow of Eldtree got Bloodborne vibes in a lot of places makes is strong candidate. What makes it different from the rest is that exploration is on another level, vertically of it still blows my mind. It's more like Armored Core 6 in this regard.

 

[Hell Swarm]

What? You would use a non-fire weapon for that boss, obviously. Using only a single element and nothing else would be a dumb guy move of epic proportions in any rpg. You know there's gonna be element-resistant enemies. This is adventuring 101 stuff.

Uh huh....see the above response.

No, if you ran into that situation it was because of retardation because a non-retard knows not to have only fire damage and nothing else at all for backup because we know that enemies have elemental resistances in video games.

Carrying a main and a secondary weapon is standard for light weapon users but the game punishes you for carrying multiple weapons if you're a heavy weapon user. So it's menu time while you get killed if you don't have it already equipped.

Depends entirely on the game in question. Plenty of games where a single element build is th optimal strategy because you unlock skills to pirce resistances or they cap at low numbers. Of course, if the game doesn't reveal that to you until 60 hours in...

None of the early From games had this problem. Lightning spear was great even against enemies resistant to lighting. It was the defacto Dark souls 1 noob weapon after Sens and Ornstein is lightning resistant.

You can't cover for all situations.

Can if you upgrade 15 weapons and use a youtube guide to find everything!

Bad players will never learn to be good if they get to respec every time they make a mistake.

So if I play an rpg or whatever and I decide to make a character that specializes in fire damage (spells, weapons etc.) and I run into a fire boss which means I basically deal no damage to him.....wtf then?

Made me laugh on a day I needed it. Thank you chum!

The levels are mostly empty. Jagged peaks is cool but there’s nothing there but repetitive dragon fights. Even finding these areas is a pain as there is no logic to exploring. You often have to go the opposite way of where it appears on the map to find some random cave. In addition you can explore 76% of an area with no map because the map fragment isn’t anywhere to be found and won’t be for quite awhile.

Completely agree with this. So many huge cliff faces and the actual direction to head is on the opposite side of the map facing the wrong direction. The side dungeons like the Goals and crypts are by far the best designed stuff. They really took feedback on too many generic caves but in turn they sacrificed the other locations where multiple near identical castles exist.

This dlc is bizarre, it really went from hardcore hard to extremely easy

The enemy guarding Mesmer's boss door is way harder than Mesmer is. It's kind of funny.

I got a dreadful feeling this thread will become "Lyric Suite plays Elden Ring" again.

Requesting 1 month thread ban for Lyric. He's going to post retarded shit and drool over his 'toon' (more like troon).

beats "I powered through in 3 days but trust me bro game is brokenly hard"

Just because I can beat it doesn't mean I don't think it doesn't have serious issues with it's difficulty I expect to be patched. Dark souls 1 had the exact same problems and it got patched heavily until it was a cake walk. From always do this and some of us are dumb enough to want to know we could beat it before it got nerfed. It's a tradition and it shows the passion we have for the series and wanting to explore it on our own terms which we sacrifice things else where to do.

Despite barely playing any figthing/hack 'n' slash games outside of Dark Souls, they'll keep insisting on the strawman that our problem is the "difficulty" and not the underlying mechanical design

Unless you mean people like Lyric then you need to read the thread. There are many of us saying the game's basic mechanics cannot keep up with the boss fights being presented now and need an overhaul. Sekiro adding a parry button and a jump button is not enough. It needs to really update how player movement works and player mobility. Demon's souls was a hack and slash adventure game while Elden Ring DLC's bosses are something you would see in a character action game. Having the option to block or roll just isn't enough any more and From's hit boxes don't help.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I got a dreadful feeling this thread will become "Lyric Suite plays Elden Ring" again.

Obviously.

 

[jaekl]

Carrying a main and a secondary weapon is standard for light weapon users but the game punishes you for carrying multiple weapons if you're a heavy weapon user. So it's menu time while you get killed if you don't have it already equipped.

Yeah so? That's what you do, you go adventuring and die then look through your inventory and think "hmmm what do I have that could help me here?" and in elden ring, you have approximately 90,000 different things that could help you there including different weapons, spells, items, summons, ammunition, armors etc. Picking through your backpack after a defeat to jury rig a solution to get some revenge is half the fun of the game. Probably the only fun of the game by the end because it was starting to get real annoying as I recall, would hate to have only had one weapon and nothing else.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Carrying a main and a secondary weapon is standard for light weapon users but the game punishes you for carrying multiple weapons if you're a heavy weapon user. So it's menu time while you get killed if you don't have it already equipped.

Yeah so? That's what you do, you go adventuring and die then look through your inventory and think "hmmm what do I have that could help me here?" and in elden ring, you have approximately 90,000 different things that could help you there including different weapons, spells, items, summons, ammunition, armors etc. Picking through your backpack after a defeat to jury rig a solution to get some revenge is half the fun of the game. Probably the only fun of the game by the end because it was starting to get real annoying as I recall, would hate to have only had one weapon and nothing else.

That's unfortunately not how these games work. It goes more like

"Hmm, what upgrade material do I have to make another +8 weapon? Fucking none. Well I guess I'm stuck with this one or a +3 weapon" so you're doing better damage with your ineffective weapon than you are your alt one.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I'm starting to think the problem people are having with Elden Ring's combat is that they are being forced out of their comfort zone in a way that wasn't present before.

In all my years of playing games, i've encountered essentially two kinds of challenges. The first is something you can essentially react to without having to "extend" yourself, or without having to exert any kind of extra concentration or effort. The second, by contrast, requires an "active" participation that forces you to step out of your standard mode of operation and learn a new modality of play, one that requires continuous effort and concentration.

A good example of the other kind, the one that requires to step "beyond" what you can do instinctively is the kind of macroing and multitasking required to succeed in online play in an RTS. The recent discussion about this genre made me remember the things i had to learn when i moved from single player to multiplayer. The first thing i struggled with was multitasking, the ability to build up an expansion or create a base and an army while at the same time having to manage my current force. Whenever a skirmish happened i always ended up neglecting my base and it required serious effort on my part to actually learn how to jump between the two. It wasn't comfortable, and required an extra degree of exertion that didn't feel entirely natural (kinda like being forced to be aware of what is happening in the periphery of your vision while your eyes are intently fixed on a specific object).

In terms of Souls, a good example of a style that requires this kind of "extra" effort is parrying, and i think it is a universal fact that most people simply neflect this technique precisely because they don't like the extra concentration and training they have to do to acquire this new skill.

My objection to the general feelings reguarding Elden Ring stems from the fact i don't consider this kind of difficutly to be problematic, even less "bad design", which is most definitely is not. I can see why most people feel uncomfortable playing Elden Ring compared even with past Souls, but that's not an argument against the legitimacy of this approach. In my case, i actually enjoyed the ramp up in difficulty a good deal. While i could sort of "wing" it in past Souls games, so i was never compelled to master the combat to any high degree, Elden Ring essentially forced me to sort reach a different level of play, something which then i brought to bear in Sekiro (which makes me wonder what would have happened had i played the latter without my experience of Elden Ring first).

Like i said, for me the only line FromSoft crossed that i didn't appreciate was Malenia's Waterfowl attack, mainly because for the first time since starting the game i was compelled to look up at a guide, and some of the solutions people came up with just don't seem right, like that technique of circling around an hitbox you can't see to dodge her first volley. If the DLC introduced more of those kind of attacks, then perhaps those complaining may have a point. For me i need to be able to figure out an attack on my own. If i have to wait for the "community" to figure out an attack which is too arcane and esoteric to understand during the actual fight, then yes, i agree that approach is fundamentally flawed and inimical to fun, but the Waterfowl attack is the ONLY attack of that kind i found in Elden Ring and a lot of the criticisms of the base game indicates for most people the line is drawn much, much earlier, mainly at the point where they are forced to go from what is comfortable to what is uncofortable or stressful.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Imagine trying to write an essay on the topic of Elden Ring's DLC bosses "crossing a line" when you've self admitted to just starting the DLC. Having not even encountered the dancing Lion and seeing what the DLC bosses have to offer. Mean while everyone else who has finished the DLC and done it at a higher difficulty than you will ever have to is universally agreeing the bosses all have questionable hit boxes on moves that hit far too hard for such punishing attacks. But I guess "Just parry" your screen turning into a light bulb and having to guess when to dodge the delayed explosion.

Take miyazaki's balls out of your mouth faggot.

 

[jaekl]

Carrying a main and a secondary weapon is standard for light weapon users but the game punishes you for carrying multiple weapons if you're a heavy weapon user. So it's menu time while you get killed if you don't have it already equipped.

Yeah so? That's what you do, you go adventuring and die then look through your inventory and think "hmmm what do I have that could help me here?" and in elden ring, you have approximately 90,000 different things that could help you there including different weapons, spells, items, summons, ammunition, armors etc. Picking through your backpack after a defeat to jury rig a solution to get some revenge is half the fun of the game. Probably the only fun of the game by the end because it was starting to get real annoying as I recall, would hate to have only had one weapon and nothing else.

That's unfortunately not how these games work. It goes more like

"Hmm, what upgrade material do I have to make another +8 weapon? Fucking none. Well I guess I'm stuck with this one or a +3 weapon" so you're doing better damage with your ineffective weapon than you are your alt one.

Yeah it is, I did it myself when I played Elden ring. One example I recall is that I kept a blunt weapon for the Chrystal guys. I think I had 4 or 5 weapons at either max or 1 level below max by the end. Plus I had every hand slot filled with weapons, bows and talismans, an inventory full of bombs, poisons, different ammunition types, consumables, spells, summons, armors etc.

Did we play the same game??

 

[jaekl]

The mimic was useless to me because of all my weapons and gadgets though so I suffered in that regard.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Carrying a main and a secondary weapon is standard for light weapon users but the game punishes you for carrying multiple weapons if you're a heavy weapon user. So it's menu time while you get killed if you don't have it already equipped.

Yeah so? That's what you do, you go adventuring and die then look through your inventory and think "hmmm what do I have that could help me here?" and in elden ring, you have approximately 90,000 different things that could help you there including different weapons, spells, items, summons, ammunition, armors etc. Picking through your backpack after a defeat to jury rig a solution to get some revenge is half the fun of the game. Probably the only fun of the game by the end because it was starting to get real annoying as I recall, would hate to have only had one weapon and nothing else.

That's unfortunately not how these games work. It goes more like

"Hmm, what upgrade material do I have to make another +8 weapon? Fucking none. Well I guess I'm stuck with this one or a +3 weapon" so you're doing better damage with your ineffective weapon than you are your alt one.

Yeah it is, I did it myself when I played Elden ring. One example I recall is that I kept a blunt weapon for the Chrystal guys. I think I had 4 or 5 weapons at either max or 1 level below max by the end. Plus I had every hand slot filled with weapons, bows and talismans, an inventory full of bombs, poisons, different ammunition types, consumables, spells, summons, armors etc.

Did we play the same game??

"by the end" yes. But until you get the later merchant balls you're stuck with only what you can find and it's quite limited. If you're not using a somber weapon then it's 12 material per upgrade tier. And that's a lot of shit to find. You could argue use 1 somber and 1 normal but you're still better off using just 2 sombers and needing 10 less material per step. And then you get the problem with early weapons falling off later in the game and it all becomes a cluster fuck.

 

[jaekl]

Carrying a main and a secondary weapon is standard for light weapon users but the game punishes you for carrying multiple weapons if you're a heavy weapon user. So it's menu time while you get killed if you don't have it already equipped.

Yeah so? That's what you do, you go adventuring and die then look through your inventory and think "hmmm what do I have that could help me here?" and in elden ring, you have approximately 90,000 different things that could help you there including different weapons, spells, items, summons, ammunition, armors etc. Picking through your backpack after a defeat to jury rig a solution to get some revenge is half the fun of the game. Probably the only fun of the game by the end because it was starting to get real annoying as I recall, would hate to have only had one weapon and nothing else.

That's unfortunately not how these games work. It goes more like

"Hmm, what upgrade material do I have to make another +8 weapon? Fucking none. Well I guess I'm stuck with this one or a +3 weapon" so you're doing better damage with your ineffective weapon than you are your alt one.

Yeah it is, I did it myself when I played Elden ring. One example I recall is that I kept a blunt weapon for the Chrystal guys. I think I had 4 or 5 weapons at either max or 1 level below max by the end. Plus I had every hand slot filled with weapons, bows and talismans, an inventory full of bombs, poisons, different ammunition types, consumables, spells, summons, armors etc.

Did we play the same game??

"by the end" yes. But until you get the later merchant balls you're stuck with only what you can find and it's quite limited. If you're not using a somber weapon then it's 12 material per upgrade tier. And that's a lot of shit to find. You could argue use 1 somber and 1 normal but you're still better off using just 2 sombers and needing 10 less material per step. And then you get the problem with early weapons falling off later in the game and it all becomes a cluster fuck.

Yes retard, you're limited at the very start of the game when it's easy and upgrades don't matter much then you're not limited at the middle and end of the game and can keep your secondary and tertiary weapons within 1-2 levels of your primaries and even upgrade a brand new weapon you find instantly by buying materials from the shop. Surely a top 1% gamer such as yourself can manage your resources better than me, a mere mortal.

 

[Silva]

The mimic was useless to me because of all my weapons and gadgets though so I suffered in that regard.

Mimic was nerfed a long time ago. If there's something I liked in base game was the different spirits playing different roles effectivelly. Tycha for melee, Blackflame monk for tanking, Aubinaric bitch for sniping, etc, etc. There are a bunch of useful spirits.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Carrying a main and a secondary weapon is standard for light weapon users but the game punishes you for carrying multiple weapons if you're a heavy weapon user. So it's menu time while you get killed if you don't have it already equipped.

Yeah so? That's what you do, you go adventuring and die then look through your inventory and think "hmmm what do I have that could help me here?" and in elden ring, you have approximately 90,000 different things that could help you there including different weapons, spells, items, summons, ammunition, armors etc. Picking through your backpack after a defeat to jury rig a solution to get some revenge is half the fun of the game. Probably the only fun of the game by the end because it was starting to get real annoying as I recall, would hate to have only had one weapon and nothing else.

That's unfortunately not how these games work. It goes more like

"Hmm, what upgrade material do I have to make another +8 weapon? Fucking none. Well I guess I'm stuck with this one or a +3 weapon" so you're doing better damage with your ineffective weapon than you are your alt one.

Yeah it is, I did it myself when I played Elden ring. One example I recall is that I kept a blunt weapon for the Chrystal guys. I think I had 4 or 5 weapons at either max or 1 level below max by the end. Plus I had every hand slot filled with weapons, bows and talismans, an inventory full of bombs, poisons, different ammunition types, consumables, spells, summons, armors etc.

Did we play the same game??

"by the end" yes. But until you get the later merchant balls you're stuck with only what you can find and it's quite limited. If you're not using a somber weapon then it's 12 material per upgrade tier. And that's a lot of shit to find. You could argue use 1 somber and 1 normal but you're still better off using just 2 sombers and needing 10 less material per step. And then you get the problem with early weapons falling off later in the game and it all becomes a cluster fuck.

Yes retard, you're limited at the very start of the game when it's easy and upgrades don't matter much then you're not limited at the middle and end of the game and can keep your secondary and tertiary weapons within 1-2 levels of your primaries and even upgrade a brand new weapon you find instantly by buying materials from the shop. Surely a top 1% gamer such as yourself can manage your resources better than me, a mere mortal.

Please read the post again because you completely missed where it says "At end game there isn't a problem" but mid game there is a huge problem. 6 upgrade material for a non-somber is a lot of item finding and spending some of them on another weapon gimps you severely mid game.

 

[jaekl]

I wasn't gimped in the middle, that's when the game was easiest actually. Does that mean I'm an 0.05% gamer now?