From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[abija]

It wasn't about PC vs consoles but about Bungie selling out and making a fps on a clearly inferior platform that forces big gameplay changes (and these numbnuts calling the result great).

 

[Stoned Ape]

I still think the most offensive example of dumbing down for X-Pox limitations was Deus Ex: Invisible War. The levels were tiny and lacked any of the complexity found in the original.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Ironically enough, Souls game started as console exclusives, and even today the main platform is still consoles, as the sources I posted early show that PS4 and 5 are where more of the player-base is. This include Sekiro and AC. From has always been a console dev first and foremost.

Never cared too much about PC vs consoles debate. Played both, there are good games in both of them. Wouldn't mind consoles being phased out so all games come to PC, but the quality of games usually depends more on the developers than the platform. Many emblematic and creative elements of games of old came about due to the developers finding ingenous solutions to the limitations of the platform they were working on. Nowadays, in a development environment where those liimitations are gone and we have access to many more tools somehow games manage to be worse.

The argument is about the west. Japanese developers are stuck with consoles so the argument cannot apply to them. Good Japanese developers make games first and foremost for consoles because that's all they have to work with. Because of this fact they are also quite suited to how consoles operate even though the inherent limitations of the platform still narrow the range of games Japanese are allowed to make.

This is more of an issue with western games though because many PC games were NOT made with consoles in mind and the transition simply ruined a lot of them and made some outright impossible to make anymore.

Lasty, there's also an issue with demographics. Consoles in the west tended to target a specific group, namely younger people (because of the low costs of consoles and the ease of use, a PC not generally being something you could convince parents to buy for their kids) or people for whom the PC platform was too daunting to deal with (dude bros or other assorted cretins). Because in Japan you only had the console market and the arcade market, there is a more varied playerbase, inclung the kind of playerbase that would have no issue playing complex or difficult games. In the west, there is more of a split. All the "nerd" types were on PC while consoles became predominatly filled with normies, with a small number of people who latched on the more demanding Japanese games who however appear to be a minority among a minority. I think FromSoft did a lot to bridge those latter groups, fans of the more difficult Japanese games and people like myself who wouldn't have touched a console if their lives depended on it (actually, i still don't own one lmao), first, by presenting something that was more palatable to western tastes than stuff like DMC, animu etc, even if we are just talking about the aesthetic, and second, because given that western games are all shit now, where else are we gonna go?

That's why if you noticed my ire towards consoles is not directed at Japanese consoles, it's focused purely on Microsoft. Because when PC gaming was in it's heyday there was no issue with consoles having their own separate ecosystem. The two platforms coexisted peacefully and without conflict. That only changed with the Xbox. It was the Xbox, and not the Playstation, that intruded into the PC ecosystem and altered how western games had to be made and who they had to target.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Halo would have been a VASTLY better game had it come out on PC. It was likely the first game to have to be forced to make "concessions" to fit to an inferior platform and a control sheme that wasn't intended for the genre. Halo was also among the first console "exclusives" when that was a foreign concept in the west, and the game was originally set to release on both console and PC in case we have forgotten about that.

Halo did come out on PC. CE still has a player base for it's multiplayer today and has loads of mods. Halo 2 also came out on PC. Used to sell the latest version of Vista if I recall as they made it Vista exclusive but no one bought it. The remasters are all based on the PC port which was done by Gear box (A PC dev) but lack some of the graphical touches of the original PC releases. Jackal shields are busted even on MCC's steam release because it uses the gear box colour coding not the console version. Not a big deal but still a difference if you're autistic.

Tim and Chris Stamper, who also founded Ultimate Play the Game, established Rare in 1985. During its early years, Rare was backed by a generous budget from Nintendo, primarily concentrated on Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) games. During this time, Rare created successful games such as Wizards & Warriors (1987), R.C. Pro-Am (1988), and Battletoads (1991). Rare became a prominent second-party developer for Nintendo, which came to own a large minority stake in the company, with the release of Donkey Kong Country (1994). Throughout the 1990s, Rare started selling their games under the trademark name "Rareware" and received international recognition and critical acclaim for games such as the Donkey Kong Country series, Killer Instinct (1994), GoldenEye 007, Banjo-Kazooie (1998), Perfect Dark (2000), and Conker's Bad Fur Day (2001).

Second-party developers​

Second-party developer is a colloquial term often used by gaming enthusiasts and media to describe game studios that take development contracts from platform holders and develop games exclusive to that platform, i.e. a non-owned developer making games for a first-party company.[8] As a balance to not being able to release their game for other platforms, second-party developers are usually offered higher royalty rates than third-party developers.[7] These studios may have exclusive publishing agreements (or other business relationships) with the platform holder, but maintain independence so that upon completion or termination of their contracts, they are able to continue developing games for other publishers if they choose to

Rare, based in the UK. Exclusive to Nintendo platform before MS ever released the Xbox. Now Lyric please just stop. You are constantly proven wrong by even the most basic knowledge. You're too autistic to understand and want to derail the thread over and over so no one can discuss the game any more. You are wrong. Accept it. Move on and find some ways to mature in life. We'll all be grateful if you do.

Ironically enough, Souls game started as console exclusives, and even today the main platform is still consoles, as the sources I posted early show that PS4 and 5 are where more of the player-base is. This include Sekiro and AC. From has always been a console dev first and foremost.

Shhh don't tell lyric the truth. Later he might find out Dark souls 1 released near unplayable on PC and a fan fixed it in a day. Dark souls 2 was designed as a PC game and scaled back. It's not until Dark souls 3 that the souls games become playable out the box on PC.

 

[Vic]

 

[abija]

What does it matter if a FPS comes out on pc after the design got ruined to account for controller aim?

 

[Hell Swarm]

What does it matter if a FPS comes out on pc after the design got ruined to account for controller aim?

Every Halo game except 5 has full keyboard and mouse support and I think the multiplayer only PC version of 5 also has keyboard and mouse support. They're fully playable that way and always have been. One of the big debates in modern competitive Halo is pro players using keyboard and mouse VS controller and the benefits of each. Most use controller but KnM players are up and coming and taking them to school quite often. It's not a clear cut controller game and never was. Halo was originally designed for PC (well Mac) so it's hard to say it was a console game like that any way.

I'd like to remind you that Dark souls has awful keyboard and mouse support and it's not until like 3 they fix that if you consider it fixed at all.

Any way.


Here's a guy who is entertaining and isn't just desperate for internet attention. Got the sword last night and wasn't keen on it myself but it's a fun watch. Highly recommend him over scrubs stacking buffs and pretending they're pros because they dodged 2 attacks.

 

[abija]

You seem to be playing dumb but in case you're not I'll try to be more clear:
Game was adjusted for lowest common denominator which is the gamepad. As a consequence game was fucked.

Clear now? Just because you grew up with it and didn't know better doesn't unfuck it. Neither does Microsoft trying to squeeze up every penny from it and releasing it on PC.

 

[Hell Swarm]

You seem to be playing dumb but in case you're not I'll try to be more clear:
Game was adjusted for lowest common denominator which is the gamepad. As a consequence game was fucked.

Clear now? Just because you grew up with it and didn't know better doesn't unfuck it. Neither does Microsoft trying to squeeze up every penny from it and releasing it on PC.

I remember when Microsoft were the dominant tech company and all the damage they did to technology and gaming. Long before the xbox existed with it's huge controller. I'm never going to defend them as a company but Halo are good games and they make use of a controller in a way keyboard and mouse really can't do. One of the problems with PC gaming on a keyboard and mouse is the lack of analog inputs. WASD is great, but you're stuck on the same 8 point movement (which people bitch about Dark souls 2 on the PC forcing on them due to From's poor PC ports), you can't hold the W key down lightly to control how fast you're walking. It's awarkard key combos and even then it's still not good. Halo making use of the trigger sensitivity for speed is something the PC really cannot do unless you're switching between keyboard and mouse and a racing wheel set up.

It's ironic you call Halo dumbed down for console controls when Halo actually takes advantage of the controller to do things the Keyboard and mouse are incapable of doing. You can say they dumbed down the FPS combat and there is some truth to that, but they don't simply strip stuff away and call it down. They take advantage of the differences and Halo wouldn't be any where near the game it is without those additions. Even today many games struggle to compete with Halo's mix of vehicle and on foot combat being so free flowing. I've looked for other games making a sandbox as good and there's very little out there. It's similar to Souls likes where there's nothing that quite captures what From does and why many of us are tolerating how much garbage From are pushing out their buttholes with Elden ring.

 

[Vic]

It's ironic you call Halo dumbed down for console controls when Halo actually takes advantage of the controller to do things the Keyboard and mouse are incapable of doing.

Stop being a retard.

 

[abija]

WASD is great, but you're stuck on the same 8 point movement (which people bitch about Dark souls 2 on the PC forcing on them due to From's poor PC ports),

Have you EVER played a FPS on PC?

 

[Hell Swarm]

WASD is great, but you're stuck on the same 8 point movement (which people bitch about Dark souls 2 on the PC forcing on them due to From's poor PC ports),

Have you EVER played a FPS on PC?

I started with Doom when I was like 6 and still play PC FPS today. It's my primary genre. Doesn't change the fact that keyboard movement is WASD and shift/ctrl to walk or crotch. So you go speed 1 or speed 2 in 8 directions. On a controlled you can go any where from 0.1 to 2 in every possible direction. One of the major complaints about Dark souls 2 was From messed up the dead zones so the controls with a joysticks get dumbed down to WASD controls instead.

 

[Lyric Suite]

What does it matter if a FPS comes out on pc after the design got ruined to account for controller aim?

Not to mention it came out two years later, with a shit port no less.

 

[Silverfish]

You actually said loot system in Nioh is better than From games (and Diablo is fine) because you stopped playing the games before loot mattered.

You're getting confused (I'm as surprised as anyone). I said that I stop playing Diablo post-game because I don't care to grind. Loot never matters much in Nioh and you can get by using whatever you find normally.

Nioh has no such thing as "skill based" loot.

Yes, it's almost like I was talking about the game being skill-based, not the loot. Not that I expect much more at this point.

And Halo is a colossal pile of shit only consoltards think is good because they don't know any better.

I'm as upset about the pistol nerf as anyone, but you have to learn to accept these things.

It wasn't about PC vs consoles but about Bungie selling out and making a fps on a clearly inferior platform that forces big gameplay changes (and these numbnuts calling the result great).

"It's not about pc vs. consoles." Becomes pc vs. consoles in the same sentence. This dude unironically said the Genesis was better than the SNES because of BLAST PROCESSING in the 90's.

You seem to be playing dumb but in case you're not I'll try to be more clear:
Game was adjusted for lowest common denominator which is the gamepad. As a consequence game was fucked.

"The game is bad because I can't aim." That's badass, dude. I didn't know Darksyde Phil was a member of the Codex. Loved your Dead Space videos, brother.

 

[abija]

I started with Doom when I was like 6 and still play PC FPS today. It's my primary genre. Doesn't change the fact that keyboard movement is WASD and shift/ctrl to walk or crotch. So you go speed 1 or speed 2 in 8 directions. On a controlled you can go any where from 0.1 to 2 in every possible direction. One of the major complaints about Dark souls 2 was From messed up the dead zones so the controls with a joysticks get dumbed down to WASD controls instead.

All your movement is camera relative and you control that with the mouse having infinite precision. In fact going 3rd person in Q3A (I think Unreal also has a similar command available) handles better than most gamepad designed 3rd person games.

And no, while in theory the sticks have like 65k directions I doubt they are ever mapped over more than 32 zones (I'd say 16 being most common), since people wouldn't be able to keep straight lines.

You are either arguing in extremely bad faith or lying your ass off. Nobody that primary plays PC FPS would use those absolutely retarded arguments. Hell I seriously doubt anyone growing up on PC FPS would even look at that console trash.

You're getting confused (I'm as surprised as anyone). I said that I stop playing Diablo post-game because I don't care to grind. Loot never matters much in Nioh and you can get by using whatever you find normally.

You also said you didn't play Nioh games past normal. I'm not confused you just spin around so much you forget your arguments. And even so... if loot doesn't matter much in Nioh, why would you argue is better than in souls games?

"It's not about pc vs. consoles." Becomes pc vs. consoles in the same sentence. This dude unironically said the Genesis was better than the SNES because of BLAST PROCESSING in the 90's.

I was referring to the input method which is immensily inferior and leads to adjustments to reaction times, turn speed, aim time, etc.

"The game is bad because I can't aim." That's badass, dude. I didn't know Darksyde Phil was a member of the Codex. Loved your Dead Space videos, brother.

Here's that jock reading comprehension in action again. The game is bad because it's designed around people not being able to aim with the shitty input device. They had to slow the game down and implement assist on the primary action in a fps game, aiming.

 

[Hell Swarm]

And no, while in theory the sticks have like 65k directions I doubt they are ever mapped over more than 32 zones (I'd say 16 being most common), since people wouldn't be able to keep straight lines.

"no, but here's why you're correct". Well that's an argument. 16 zones is still double the 8 WASD allows and mouse/right stick both change how your movement works, but right stick has left stick enhancing the movement options.

You are either arguing in extremely bad faith or lying your ass off. Nobody that primary plays PC FPS would use those absolutely retarded arguments. Hell I seriously doubt anyone growing up on PC FPS would even look at that console trash.

Funny thing is I was like you actually. Back when Halo 3 came out I shit all over it. Baby's first FPS. Why would I play console trash? Then I saw a multiplayer map I thought looked pretty fun and decided to give it a go. I discovered I could have a lot of fun playing console FPS games as well as PC FPS games and as I got older and my reflexes got worse I started to lean more into console FPS. I still play plenty of Doom on KnM and I play plenty of Halo infinite on controller and I have no problem with any one who prefers to do either. I've always considered it a shame that FPS games took regenerating health and 2 weapons as Halo's iconic parts to copy. I wish they would have taken the vehicle based combat within FPS arenas and ran with that instead. It would have improved the genre greatly to have vehicles in 32 player maps instead of 200 player battlefield games.

If you want to shit on me for enjoying Halo go right ahead, I've been in your shoes and I feel sorry you can't enjoy the Grunt's birthday skull. Must be a very soulless person if your so desperate to get one up on me you'd ignore an excellent game series.

Psst. I owned doom on the SNES as a kid after I played it at my cousins for hours on PC. If you want to talk shit FPS controls and bad ports I can show you a real doozy.

 

[abija]

Except right stick doesn't work like a mouse right? Not even remotely close. That's an absurd handwaving of the issue and how movement realistically works on the different controls.

I don't believe for a second your soapy story about growing up with PC FPS and switching to console to enjoy Halo 3 MP. Not from a maniac complaining about every minuscule detail in ER or other games. Your reflexes got worse... lol. In your grave you'd still be better than playing fps with a controller.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Except right stick doesn't work like a mouse right? Not even remotely close. That's an absurd handwaving of the issue and how movement realistically works on the different controls.

I don't believe for a second your soapy story about growing up with PC FPS and switching to console to enjoy Halo 3 MP. Not from a maniac complaining about every minuscule detail in ER or other games. Your reflexes got worse... lol. In your grave you'd still be better than playing fps with a controller.

2 weeks ago my mouse broke and I didn't have a spare wireless one. I installed a program called gopher (I think) that turned my controller into a mouse until a new one arrived. Literally the same thing.

The Steam deck in desktop mode also uses the sticks as a mouse.

You're almost as ill informed as Lyric is..

 

[abija]

And everyone clapped.

 

[Silverfish]

You also said you didn't play Nioh games past normal.

I didn't. I was talking specifically about Diablo. I've said in the Nioh thread that I enjoy starting a subsequent new game more than NG+ because I like the power creep, but that's in relation to skill trees, onmyo / ninjutsu proficiency and blacksmith patronage.

And even so... if loot doesn't matter much in Nioh, why would you argue is better than in souls games?

Already covered it, but the short version is you never find weapons you can't actually use, junk can be disposed of in various ways, providing flexibility and forgoing a Souls-style upgrade path encourages experimentation.

The game is bad because it's designed around people not being able to aim with the shitty input device.

"If I can't do it, no one can."

 

[Hell Swarm]

And everyone clapped.

https://www.reddit.com/r/disabledga...pher360_use_a_gamepad_as_a_wireless_mouse_on/

Did they? Why did they clap? Because I told the truth and I own a steam deck where I use the right thumb stick to navigate linux.

Did you also know trackball controllers exist?

Does that count as a mouse? I use a trackball usually so I guess I also don't use a mouse.

 

[Vic]

The only FPS that are playable with a controller at a high competitive level are the ones with aim assist. And guess why? Because you can't aim as quickly with a stick as you can with a mouse. It's not even close. Stop posting cringe.

 

[Silverfish]

The only FPS that are playable with a controller at a high competitive level are the ones with aim assist.

You didn't have to take the Modern Warfare 2 lobby seriously.

 

[Vic]

The only FPS that are playable with a controller at a high competitive level are the ones with aim assist.

You didn't have to take the Modern Warfare 2 lobby seriously.

His (retarded) argument is that playing FPS with a controller is even better than playing it with mkb. The stupidity blows my mind.

The mouse is an incredible peripheral device that allows for precision input. A stick that you flick with your thumb can never compare.

It's clear he never seriously played PC games. Sure, the movement is better for 3D games with a controller, but anything where precise input is required plays miles better with mkb. That includes games with lots of buttons on screen like CRPGs, sims and strategy, ie PC games.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The only FPS that are playable with a controller at a high competitive level are the ones with aim assist.

You didn't have to take the Modern Warfare 2 lobby seriously.

His (retarded) argument is that playing FPS with a controller is even better than playing it with mkb. The stupidity blows my mind.

The mouse is an incredible peripheral device that allows for precision input. A stick that you flick with your thumb can never compare.

It's clear he never seriously played PC games. Sure, the movement is better for 3D games with a controller, but anything where precise input is required plays miles better with mkb. That includes games with lots of buttons on screen like CRPGs, sims and strategy, ie PC games.

The area where gamepads shine are using multiple keys simultneously. Mouse is indeed the perfect tool for touching precise areas of the screen repeatedly or with twitch reflex, but you'd never be able to comfortably play something like the old Armored Core games with a mkb setup. Trying to strafe, turn, backpedal, fire 2 guns at once, engage overboost and quickboost and then activate extensions, swap one weapon while jettisoning another, reloading, deploying inside parts... and do all of this while adjusting your vertical position with thrusters as well.

Sadly, games with such excellent control schemes don't really get made any more, as everything got swallowed up with 'context sensitive buttons' and sticky cover. But I could easily imagine an excellent FPS based around a controller that allowed for a similar fine degree of control over a human; letting you do things like crouch and kneel and slide and roll and duck and blindfire around cover all on the fly and in combination. Could do cool stuff with like a boxing or fighting game as well involving multiple dimensions of movement, stances and guards that you engage with a single button instead of clunky transitions triggered by entire special moves or automatically through specific attacks.