From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Vic]

Sarcasm is the natural enemy of autism.

 

[Silverfish]

 

[Hell Swarm]

What do you mean by that? My thinking is the exact opposite. Any open world game that doesn't have extensive environmental interaction should be converted to a linear game, I mean you are basically playing a walking simulator then, which I guess is fine if that's what you are going for.

BOTW's interaction isn't punching trees until you can collect wood to build a crafting bench. You knock down a tree to glue it to another tree and use that as a raft to ride down the river. It's got basic tools but they elevate the open world significantly.

Because otherwise you end up with games like Elden Ring and Cyberpunk 2077 ( I guess Maffia games qualifies as well, it was to long ago that I played them to remember ) where the open world is just for atmosphere. But luckily you can mod Cyberpunk 2077 to be semi decent open world, I play with around 30 mods atleast.

30 mods is a fucking lot of mods. Something wrong with you and the game if you need that many.

I played Cyberpunk at release and I wouldn't compare riding Torrent to cyberpunks open world. Cyberpunk's open world has you avoid traffic and occasionally have enemies in vehicles able to keep up with you. Even if it's only basic having to swerve between other vehicles and follow roads requires you to be engaged. There's nothing in Elden ring like that because Torrent is too powerful and the open world is so empty. You tap O and hold up and you course correct slightly if you had to go round a building you couldn't jump over (which is rare).

 

[General Disarray]

What do you mean by that?

You are very right on your post but

Spoiler

I think Silverfish was being sarcastic

Yeah you are right. But you really can't trust people on this forum. People have the wildest taste and arguments here.

What do you mean by that? My thinking is the exact opposite. Any open world game that doesn't have extensive environmental interaction should be converted to a linear game, I mean you are basically playing a walking simulator then, which I guess is fine if that's what you are going for.

BOTW's interaction isn't punching trees until you can collect wood to build a crafting bench. You knock down a tree to glue it to another tree and use that as a raft to ride down the river. It's got basic tools but they elevate the open world significantly.

Because otherwise you end up with games like Elden Ring and Cyberpunk 2077 ( I guess Maffia games qualifies as well, it was to long ago that I played them to remember ) where the open world is just for atmosphere. But luckily you can mod Cyberpunk 2077 to be semi decent open world, I play with around 30 mods atleast.

30 mods is a fucking lot of mods. Something wrong with you and the game if you need that many.

I played Cyberpunk at release and I wouldn't compare riding Torrent to cyberpunks open world. Cyberpunk's open world has you avoid traffic and occasionally have enemies in vehicles able to keep up with you. Even if it's only basic having to swerve between other vehicles and follow roads requires you to be engaged. There's nothing in Elden ring like that because Torrent is too powerful and the open world is so empty. You tap O and hold up and you course correct slightly if you had to go round a building you couldn't jump over (which is rare).

Yeah I know, I was specifically referring to BotW as a game bringing back "immsim" aspects. Outward has a much more extensive traditionally crafting system.

Lol, yeah because it's not like Cyberpunk 2077 got totally fucked up production and then they went cheap and tried to scale it down to work on the ps4 or anything right? I always play games modded if I can, developers are useless at balancing their game. I loved Elex1 but piranha Bytes are a bit retarded so I did my first playthrough with a combat&economy overhaul mod so I don't have to suffer retarded dev balancing. Same with the nuDeus ex games and Risen 1.

Actually now that I make a hasty count that number was low. Around 8 core script mods that other mods require, 7 graphic mods, 7 vehicle mod ( mainly making driving more realistic), 4 UI mods, 31 gameplay mods (immersive mods and enemy gang overhaul mods being the biggest the other is mostly cool stuff) some other mods as well.

I agree with you on that using torrent is much less engaging.

 

[Damned Registrations]

What do you mean by that? My thinking is the exact opposite. Any open world game that doesn't have extensive environmental interaction should be converted to a linear game, I mean you are basically playing a walking simulator then, which I guess is fine if that's what you are going for.

The whole point of an open world is giving the player agency to tackle problems in different ways and have a more plausible experience that isn't hindered by flimsy doors or chest high walls. Environmental interaction has fuck all to do with it. Series like Ultima, Might and Magic and Wizardry nailed this shit decades ago.

 

[Ravielsk]

What do you mean by that? My thinking is the exact opposite. Any open world game that doesn't have extensive environmental interaction should be converted to a linear game, I mean you are basically playing a walking simulator then, which I guess is fine if that's what you are going for.

"The 7th generation of consoles and its consequences have been a disaster for the gamer race."

The modern open world meme cannot really produce good open world games because it was born as a counter reaction to the obnoxious linearity of 7th gen titles. In the time between 2005-2010 some of the most popular games were essentially corridors that the level designer simply twisted in a place or two and this was to a point where even backtracking was not possible. A game in 2002 being called linear meant that the game has a set order of levels but what you do in those levels was up to you. In 2008 it meant that you are boxed into a single lane that forced you to go forward and only forward.

The result was people demanding open world games because they were sick of this sort of anti-design but since they were asking this from the same people that came up with that anti-design... well all that came out of it was just a wide corridor filled with random crap to make it seem like its not a corridor anymore.

 

[Vic]

Are we back to console wars again?

 

[Odoryuk]

Linux is better than Windows, guys

 

[Hell Swarm]

What do you mean by that? My thinking is the exact opposite. Any open world game that doesn't have extensive environmental interaction should be converted to a linear game, I mean you are basically playing a walking simulator then, which I guess is fine if that's what you are going for.

"The 7th generation of consoles and its consequences have been a disaster for the gamer race."

The modern open world meme cannot really produce good open world games because it was born as a counter reaction to the obnoxious linearity of 7th gen titles. In the time between 2005-2010 some of the most popular games were essentially corridors that the level designer simply twisted in a place or two and this was to a point where even backtracking was not possible. A game in 2002 being called linear meant that the game has a set order of levels but what you do in those levels was up to you. In 2008 it meant that you are boxed into a single lane that forced you to go forward and only forward.

The result was people demanding open world games because they were sick of this sort of anti-design but since they were asking this from the same people that came up with that anti-design all that came out of it was just a wide corridor filled with random crap to make it seem like its not a corridor anymore.

A lot of those linear games had far more freedom than modern open worlds do. A good linear sandbox doesn't need an open world for options. It gives you the options and interesting ways to tackle them.

Casuals like open world games because they're really easy to waste time in and feel like you've done something. You can do a side quest or a dungeon and you're good to go for an hour. They're also much easier for devs to design because it's open terrain instead of tightly controlled enviroments where one bad decision can spike difficulty. Open world lets you always run away so you can't get progress locked.

 

[Silverfish]

Are we back to console wars again?

All I'm saying is that the Dreamcast had some innovative features and the best console version of Soul Reaver.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Are we back to console wars again?

All I'm saying is that the Dreamcast had some innovative features and the best console version of Soul Reaver.

RIP VMU. May you forever fuck up emulation. Little sister Wiiu misses you,

 

[Stoned Ape]

Are we back to console wars again?

All I'm saying is that the Dreamcast had some innovative features and the best console version of Soul Reaver.

I mean, the Dreamcast was decent but for pure console brilliance you really can't look any further than the Neo-Geo, the first home system with true arcade quality graphics.

 

[Hell Swarm]

 

[DemonKing]

In 2008 it meant that you are boxed into a single lane that forced you to go forward and only forward.

That's not a bad thing if the gameplay and/or story are good. A good 10-20 hour linear game is usually better than a bloated open world game.

The problem with early Soulslike design is that you sometimes felt like you were headbutting a brick wall over and over again as your progress is blocked until you beat certain bosses. Elden Ring isn't perfect but at least there are either ways around bosses causing you trouble or you can easily just go and do something else and come back when you've levelled up a bit.

 

[Haplo]

Corridor games any good? Lol, no.

You want to tell me that something like Final Fantasy XIII Mega-Ultra-Flash Returns is any good?

 

[Ravielsk]

That's not a bad thing if the gameplay and/or story are good. A good 10-20 hour linear game is usually better than a bloated open world game.

That is explicitly a very bad thing. If a game is designed that way its no longer a game but a movie that pauses every few seconds. It defeats the whole purpose and goes directly against the mediums strengths and emphasizes its weakest points.

Its basically as if you tried writing a book but in a movie format, instead of printing 200+ pages of text on paper you would put together a 2+ hour long video of text scrolling. Its the same text, hell it might even come with sound effects, but the format in which it is delivered simply makes it worse no matter which way you slice it.

 

[Hell Swarm]

That is explicitly a very bad thing. If a game is designed that way its no longer a game but a movie that pauses every few seconds. It defeats the whole purpose and goes directly against the mediums strengths and emphasizes its weakest points.

I think you're arguing something different to what demon meant. Some of the best games ever made are linear games and they still have a lot of player expression and work well with the medium's strengths. A linear game would be something that isn't open world rather than a game on rails. Devil may cry, Halo, Doom are all linear games. The hallway simulator genre where they're glorified movies are also linear but they're linear in a different way and generally get called something else.

I like people comparing FF13 to Elden ring because both have the same problem. Their exploration is entirely visual and the presentation is top notch but everything else is scarified for it. FF13 maybe more on rails but the developer focus was woefully off target in terms of making the most of the medium. Riding torrent across an empty field with spooky grave stones may as well be a screeensaver for all the engagement it has.

The problem with early Soulslike design is that you sometimes felt like you were headbutting a brick wall over and over again as your progress is blocked until you beat certain bosses. Elden Ring isn't perfect but at least there are either ways around bosses causing you trouble or you can easily just go and do something else and come back when you've levelled up a bit.

I've never found any souls boss gatekeep anything as hard as Elden ring's final boss rush. Dark souls 3 DLC bosses can be quite nasty but Maliketh is in a league of his own. I think the DLC patched his AI some what. Fighting him recently I noticed he does a bit less of the bullshit like attacking through pillars. He still can but it's nothing like it was.

 

[Silverfish]

That is explicitly a very bad thing. If a game is designed that way its no longer a game but a movie that pauses every few seconds. It defeats the whole purpose and goes directly against the mediums strengths and emphasizes its weakest points.

No, trimming fat is always appreciated. An eight hour game with only fun parts is always superior to a fifty hour game with a bunch of boring stuff in between the fun.

 

[Dark Souls II]

You will never be Dark Souls II. You have no real PVP, you have no atmosphere, you have no varied and interesting level design. You are a normie game twisted by the decision to pander to western AAA audience into a crude mockery of game design perfection. All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your players are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “fans” laugh at your ghoulish appearance behind closed doors. Real gamers are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed gamers to sniff out goyslop with incredible efficiency. Even aspects of Elden Ring taken from Dark Souls II look uncanny and unnatural to real gamers. Your PVP is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a gamer to pirate you, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your generic, soulless open world full of uninspired and reused enemies.

 

[Hell Swarm]

You will never be Dark Souls II. You have no real PVP, you have no atmosphere, you have no varied and interesting level design. You are a normalfag game twisted by the decision to pander to transexual speedrunners into a crude mockery of game design perfection. All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your players are disgusting and ashamed to play you, your “fans” laugh at your broken hit boxes behind closed doors. Real k***hts are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed dex players to sniff out goyslop with incredible efficiency. Even aspects of Elden Ring taken from Demon's souls look uncanny and recycledl to Dragon Bone Smashers. Your boss fights are a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a lonely incel virgin to pirate you, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your generic, soulless open world full of uninspired and reused enemies.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Hell Swarm]

1st thing is actually interesting and it's weird it was cut as the game is so bare bones already

last thing.. also interesting. If you beat Radahn it triggers a flag to make the DLC more difficult in future play throughs. So you enter NG+ after beating him enemies get a 12% damage and defense buff in the DLC in your NG+. Doesn't change the base game, just the DLC. So basically beating Radahn gives you an extra hard DLC in NG+s

 

[Dark Souls II]

You will never be Dark Souls II. You have no real PVP, you have no atmosphere, you have no varied and interesting level design. You are a normalfag game twisted by the decision to pander to transexual speedrunners into a crude mockery of game design perfection. All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your players are disgusting and ashamed to play you, your “fans” laugh at your broken hit boxes behind closed doors. Real k***hts are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed dex players to sniff out goyslop with incredible efficiency. Even aspects of Elden Ring taken from Demon's souls look uncanny and recycledl to Dragon Bone Smashers. Your boss fights are a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a lonely incel virgin to pirate you, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your generic, soulless open world full of uninspired and reused enemies.

Fixed it for you.

Thank you, I know it wasn't very accurate because I have never played a second of Elden Ring in my life

 

[Max Damage]

1st try double KO

 

[Max Damage]

This game's kinda fun when you're beating stupid shit with your own stupid shit, I just wish there was way less stumbling on yet another filler dungeon with filler boss that drops another useless filler summon or whatever, it's baffling how bad exploration in this game is compared to any Souls game.

 

[Haplo]

That is explicitly a very bad thing. If a game is designed that way its no longer a game but a movie that pauses every few seconds. It defeats the whole purpose and goes directly against the mediums strengths and emphasizes its weakest points.

No, trimming fat is always appreciated. An eight hour game with only fun parts is always superior to a fifty hour game with a bunch of boring stuff in between the fun.

Going through corridors and watching cutscenes is not my definition of fun. Not even close.

Of course, there are lots of games in between, with level after level to explore and beat - and those are usually the best I guess.