From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[AwesomeButton]

Actually as a total noob to the souls genre I decided to go simple with a strength/dex weapon and a melee build.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Pure strength gives you access to the best shields in the game going pure roll after that is to actually go against the build. It's like going pure int and never use a sorcery.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Bloodhound's fang - a str/dex curved sword. I still haven't got to 40 vigor, so I haven't switched to upgrading str or dex yet.

 

[NJClaw]

Bloodhound's fang - a str/dex curved sword. I still haven't got to 40 vigor, so I haven't switched to upgrading str or dex yet.

Finally someone playing the game like God intended

 

[Odoryuk]

the man himself returns

His first video was 2 hours of complaining that the game was too hard for a Dark Souls 1 build (aka pure strength no spells no items dodgeroll only). Which is pretty much the anthem of all this game's haters. Waahhh, why doesn't it play like a game 4 sequels ago???

Bro complains about the difficulty and can't accept that he's bad and the game has a lot of things that could make the game easier for him, but he refuses to use them. Because of toxic masculinity, ladies and gentlemen

 

[Lyric Suite]

Does he actually say that? Lmao time stamp please.

 

[Odoryuk]

Does he actually say that? Lmao time stamp please.

Dunno I haven't watched the videos, kinda stopped doing that in FS fandom since Vaatividya praising Dark Souls 2 before its release like it's the second coming of Christ

 

[Hell Swarm]

the man himself returns

His first video was 2 hours of complaining that the game was too hard for a Dark Souls 1 build (aka pure strength no spells no items dodgeroll only). Which is pretty much the anthem of all this game's haters. Waahhh, why doesn't it play like a game 4 sequels ago???

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's reasonable to expect it to be a duck. Don't blame people for From being too lazy to improve their games and expect people to play them differently with no indication this is what they expect.

Does he actually say that? Lmao time stamp please.

Dunno I haven't watched the videos, kinda stopped doing that in FS fandom since Vaatividya praising Dark Souls 2 before its release like it's the second coming of Christ

Another From fanboy who covers their ears and goes lalalalah because they have no argument. No wonder these dumb fucks never respond to anything and can't dispute facts and logic. They're completely ignorant. Just like with the Scadu fragments!

 

[Odoryuk]

Another From fanboy who covers their ears and goes lalalalah because they have no argument. No wonder these dumb fucks never respond to anything and can't dispute facts and logic. They're completely ignorant. Just like with the Scadu fragments!

Sorry I don't spend literal hours watching a literal who telling me that a thing I like actually sucks

 

[Anonona]

Sorry I don't spend literal hours watching a literal who telling me that a thing I like actually sucks

He actually liked the DLC, specially the bosses, more than the base game. So much in fact that it has renewed his expectations for From's next game. He also complimented the open world design, considering it more of a fusion between dungeon and open world. On the other hand he does critizice that the DLC feels unfinished, with areas that are either very empty, or reuse too many enemies from base game, and some bosses like Radhan not being particularly well done, specially compared to the other bosses in the DLC which he claimed were great. Also issues with the camera, frame rate and such. He is still very critical through the video, but overall his impressions about SoTE were positive.

At the end of the video he also presents his opinions about how the community is too resilliant to any form of criticism, to the point some excuse anything wrong with the game, and warns that it is a self defeating position to take as it may lead to From not improving their games.

He starts with very harsh and inflamatory remarks, but it is a set up for a stark switch up at around the 8 minute mark, so if anyone is interested in the video be warned that the long intro isn't representative of the whole video.

 

[Silverfish]

and expect people to play them differently with no indication this is what they expect.

It's funny too because the "you're supposed to play it differently" argument isn't even true. It's the old 'non-standard difficulty slider' discussion that goes all the way back to Demon's Souls. Only now, the idea that you'd put a limit on your power to take on a greater challenge is considered "playing it the wrong way".

He starts with very harsh and inflamatory remarks, but it is a set up for a stark switch up at around the 8 minute mark, so if anyone is interested in the video be warned that the long intro isn't representative of the whole video.

The people who need to see this the most are physically incapable of understanding it.

 

[Odoryuk]

He actually liked the DLC, specially the bosses, more than the base game

I'm also not watching hour long videos of people I don't know telling me that a thing I like is good, but I do agree with this, I liked the DLC more than the base game, but it also enhanced the base game to me, which became apparent when I created a couple of new builds from scratch and was surprised by the base game open world which after dozens of hours in the DLC became alien to me, almost like in my first playthrough

 

[Stoned Ape]

Bloodhound's fang - a str/dex curved sword. I still haven't got to 40 vigor, so I haven't switched to upgrading str or dex yet.

You can even apply incantation buffs or weapon greases to that thing, it's incredibly strong and one of the most versatile weapons for targeting weaknesses.

 

[Hell Swarm]

The people who need to see this the most are physically incapable of understanding it.

This thread is full of people like that so it's pointless trying to discuss From games honestly here.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Does he actually say that? Lmao time stamp please.

He doesn't, he just seems the regular level of butthurt tryhard who is mad their challenge build is actually challenging.

I don't know any other series where such a vocal group of people go around insisting there is only one correct build for the game.

 

[The Decline]

Does he actually say that? Lmao time stamp please.

He doesn't, he just seems the regular level of butthurt tryhard who is mad their challenge build is actually challenging.

I don't know any other series where such a vocal group of people go around insisting there is only one correct build for the game.

Very odd, but I've never really interacted with the "fandom" seeing as I play alone or with my brother. I just enjoy them however I want without worrying what other people think.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

It's funny too because the "you're supposed to play it differently" argument isn't even true. It's the old 'non-standard difficulty slider' discussion that goes all the way back to Demon's Souls. Only now, the idea that you'd put a limit on your power to take on a greater challenge is considered "playing it the wrong way".

No one cares if you forgo abilities to make the game harder for yourself, its when you turn around and complain that the game is too hard after choosing to limit yourself that makes no sense. You want a no magic no summons run, expect a tougher time. That's on you.

It's the same as playing Baldur's gate without a mage or cleric and then saying the encounters are too hard. It's okay for the game to expect a certain baseline of power from the player and tune encounters to match. If you can't "figure out what the game expects from you" perhaps you'll have more fun playing a Ubisoft game.

 

[Nathir]

Someone explain to me why we needed a Lord of frenzied flame as a boss? What is the point? I still don't get it.

 

[Reever]

No one cares if you forgo abilities to make the game harder for yourself, its when you turn around and complain that the game is too hard after choosing to limit yourself that makes no sense. You want a no magic no summons run, expect a tougher time. That's on you.

Because summons are ways to make the game easier, it is not SEEN as the intended difficulty for a boss. We can debate whether that is intended until the end of time but it's clear that the bosses AI is not designed with summons (and sometimes with magic too) when it either trivializes the fight or the bosses doesn't understand what to do and sometimes switches targets in the middle of the string or even in the middle of the attack.
And you can't tell me that a magic user placing down terra magica and shooting their comet azure, melting a boss before he's even reaching the player is how that fight is intended to play out.
The fact that the bosses have a really bad design isn't excused by the fact that you can cheese them with summons or magic. You can't tell me that Consort Radahn having it's cross-slash only have 1 frame where you can dodge the attack and not get hit by the follow-up is good design because you could've just summoned your mimic tear and let him take the hit.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Someone explain to me why we needed a Lord of frenzied flame as a boss? What is the point? I still don't get it.

Why not? Don't see any reason why there shouldn't be.

Also why complaint given it's one of the cooler bosses in the DLC?

The reason Midra is there is because they wanted to include a little bit of everything from the base game. Midra was supposed to be a mediator between major parties and given all the atrocities that were commited by everybody, he decided the only way to atone for it all was to just wipe everything away (including spirits which the Hornsent were devoted to), which is why he needed to turn into the Lord of frenzied flame.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

switches targets in the middle of the string or even in the middle of the attack.

I would argue aggro switching is a sign the boss *is* designed for summons, since you can't rely on your summon keeping the heat off you. But okay, a feature with 84 summonable allies, featuring unique upgrade materials (not competing with other mats), that's accessible to any build is totally not meant to be actually used by anyone.

melting a boss before he's even reaching the player is how that fight is intended to play out.

Why do you think that spell is in the game? By accident or something? Did someone code in that spell just to try it out, they left it in there, and everyone forgot about it?

Again, should every build have the same experience at every point in the game? Should every boss have the exact same challenge regardless of tactics?

The fact it's in the game means it's meant to be used. There's no such thing as a fair fight. Jesus christ.

 

[Odoryuk]

But okay, a feature with 84 summonable allies, featuring unique upgrade materials (not competing with other mats), that's accessible to any build is totally not meant to be actually used by anyone.

You don't understand they summon a mimic tear that copies their meta–build and it makes the fights piss–easy, it's clearly broken

 

[Grampy_Bone]

But okay, a feature with 84 summonable allies, featuring unique upgrade materials (not competing with other mats), that's accessible to any build is totally not meant to be actually used by anyone.

You don't understand they summon a mimic tear that copies their meta–build and it makes the fights piss–easy, it's clearly broken

Sometimes a summon can really help, sometimes they run around and eat one attack after another until they die. Summons don't really help on Bayle (or any dragons, or any big AoE bosses) or Radahn, and good luck even getting one off with Messmer. They suck for plenty of the base game bosses too. Not to mention, I really don't think Elden Ring is a very hard game in general. The toughest area in the game is Stormveil, because you're underleveled if you go there first and have the fewest tools available. If you explore thoroughly and don't play stupid you will be overleveled for the rest of the game.

Again, my question isn't whether a summon can make a fight easier, it's why shouldn't a fight be made easier? Is every fight supposed to be brutally hard? Should every boss turn off summons, magic, and items?

The complainers won't even use shields. "Shields are cheap! I just want to dodgeroll!!!!!!" FFS. There is no other game on this entire forum where the players act like this. In Underrail it is generally recognized that PSI and PSI-hybrid builds are very strong, yet no one tries to say PSI is "not the intended way to play." Cave-wizard wrecks that game, and no one cares.

I think Elden Ring hurts players' feelings. They want to go on forums and brag about how they beat a Fromsoft game with a pure strength no magic no items dodgeroll build. Elden Ring makes that very hard. Instead of taking the L and getting good, they attack the game for thwarting their e-peen points.

 

[NJClaw]

You can't tell me that Consort Radahn having it's cross-slash only have 1 frame where you can dodge the attack and not get hit by the follow-up is good design because you could've just summoned your mimic tear and let him take the hit.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Shields

 

[Hell Swarm]

Sometimes a summon can really help, sometimes they run around and eat one attack after another until they die. Summons don't really help on Bayle (or any dragons, or any big AoE bosses) or Radahn, and good luck even getting one off with Messmer. They suck for plenty of the base game bosses too. Not to mention, I really don't think Elden Ring is a very hard game in general. The toughest area in the game is Stormveil, because you're underleveled if you go there first and have the fewest tools available. If you explore thoroughly and don't play stupid you will be overleveled for the rest of the game.

Are you trolling? Mimic helps against every single boss. Even against Millenia who heals off summons Mimic is still incredibly powerful and does way more damage than she can heal off of it. It's easy to get a summon off against any boss and the health you will save will always be worth taking a hit if you fuck up the timing and take damage from doing it. Marika's blessings in the DLC also double Mimic tears health and he'll survive pretty much every boss fight if the player is aggressive and switching up aggro constantly through damage dealt.

I think Elden Ring hurts players' feelings. They want to go on forums and brag about how they beat a Fromsoft game with a pure strength no magic no items dodgeroll build. Elden Ring makes that very hard. Instead of taking the L and getting good, they attack the game for thwarting their e-peen points.

You're building a strawman here. I think Elden Ring is balanced around summons and many bosses have issues fighting them 1 on 1 if you're not intentionally bursting them down by stacking buffs to the point where you don't see half the content because the boss is already dead by the time phase 2 kicks in. I don't think people are in the wrong for wanting to take a boss head on using nothing but the basic combat mechanics of rolling/dodging/R1 and R2 attacks. They don't enjoy watching a boss fight a summon and stabbing it in the back. They want to learn the bosses moveset and find solutions to every move through their skill alone. Which is admirable because they're trying to engage with the game on it's fundamentals and if those fundamentals don't work there's issues with From's design.

If you're right and you say "A player shouldn't be relying on the core combat to beat bosses but all these extra bits glued onto the side of a 15 year old game instead" then the core combat has failed at it's basic functions. From combat is not very deep, rolling and pressing R1 or L2 are the same thing mechanically and both should be viable options in their own right.