From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lyric Suite]

Someone explain to me why we needed a Lord of frenzied flame as a boss? What is the point? I still don't get it.

Why not? Don't see any reason why there shouldn't be.

Also why complaint given it's one of the cooler bosses in the DLC?

The reason Midra is there is because they wanted to include a little bit of everything from the base game. Midra was supposed to be a mediator between major parties and given all the atrocities that were commited by everybody, he decided the only way to atone for it all was to just wipe everything away (including spirits which the Hornsent were devoted to), which is why he needed to turn into the Lord of frenzied flame.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

switches targets in the middle of the string or even in the middle of the attack.

I would argue aggro switching is a sign the boss *is* designed for summons, since you can't rely on your summon keeping the heat off you. But okay, a feature with 84 summonable allies, featuring unique upgrade materials (not competing with other mats), that's accessible to any build is totally not meant to be actually used by anyone.

melting a boss before he's even reaching the player is how that fight is intended to play out.

Why do you think that spell is in the game? By accident or something? Did someone code in that spell just to try it out, they left it in there, and everyone forgot about it?

Again, should every build have the same experience at every point in the game? Should every boss have the exact same challenge regardless of tactics?

The fact it's in the game means it's meant to be used. There's no such thing as a fair fight. Jesus christ.

 

[Odoryuk]

But okay, a feature with 84 summonable allies, featuring unique upgrade materials (not competing with other mats), that's accessible to any build is totally not meant to be actually used by anyone.

You don't understand they summon a mimic tear that copies their meta–build and it makes the fights piss–easy, it's clearly broken

 

[Grampy_Bone]

But okay, a feature with 84 summonable allies, featuring unique upgrade materials (not competing with other mats), that's accessible to any build is totally not meant to be actually used by anyone.

You don't understand they summon a mimic tear that copies their meta–build and it makes the fights piss–easy, it's clearly broken

Sometimes a summon can really help, sometimes they run around and eat one attack after another until they die. Summons don't really help on Bayle (or any dragons, or any big AoE bosses) or Radahn, and good luck even getting one off with Messmer. They suck for plenty of the base game bosses too. Not to mention, I really don't think Elden Ring is a very hard game in general. The toughest area in the game is Stormveil, because you're underleveled if you go there first and have the fewest tools available. If you explore thoroughly and don't play stupid you will be overleveled for the rest of the game.

Again, my question isn't whether a summon can make a fight easier, it's why shouldn't a fight be made easier? Is every fight supposed to be brutally hard? Should every boss turn off summons, magic, and items?

The complainers won't even use shields. "Shields are cheap! I just want to dodgeroll!!!!!!" FFS. There is no other game on this entire forum where the players act like this. In Underrail it is generally recognized that PSI and PSI-hybrid builds are very strong, yet no one tries to say PSI is "not the intended way to play." Cave-wizard wrecks that game, and no one cares.

I think Elden Ring hurts players' feelings. They want to go on forums and brag about how they beat a Fromsoft game with a pure strength no magic no items dodgeroll build. Elden Ring makes that very hard. Instead of taking the L and getting good, they attack the game for thwarting their e-peen points.

 

[NJClaw]

You can't tell me that Consort Radahn having it's cross-slash only have 1 frame where you can dodge the attack and not get hit by the follow-up is good design because you could've just summoned your mimic tear and let him take the hit.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Shields

 

[Hell Swarm]

Sometimes a summon can really help, sometimes they run around and eat one attack after another until they die. Summons don't really help on Bayle (or any dragons, or any big AoE bosses) or Radahn, and good luck even getting one off with Messmer. They suck for plenty of the base game bosses too. Not to mention, I really don't think Elden Ring is a very hard game in general. The toughest area in the game is Stormveil, because you're underleveled if you go there first and have the fewest tools available. If you explore thoroughly and don't play stupid you will be overleveled for the rest of the game.

Are you trolling? Mimic helps against every single boss. Even against Millenia who heals off summons Mimic is still incredibly powerful and does way more damage than she can heal off of it. It's easy to get a summon off against any boss and the health you will save will always be worth taking a hit if you fuck up the timing and take damage from doing it. Marika's blessings in the DLC also double Mimic tears health and he'll survive pretty much every boss fight if the player is aggressive and switching up aggro constantly through damage dealt.

I think Elden Ring hurts players' feelings. They want to go on forums and brag about how they beat a Fromsoft game with a pure strength no magic no items dodgeroll build. Elden Ring makes that very hard. Instead of taking the L and getting good, they attack the game for thwarting their e-peen points.

You're building a strawman here. I think Elden Ring is balanced around summons and many bosses have issues fighting them 1 on 1 if you're not intentionally bursting them down by stacking buffs to the point where you don't see half the content because the boss is already dead by the time phase 2 kicks in. I don't think people are in the wrong for wanting to take a boss head on using nothing but the basic combat mechanics of rolling/dodging/R1 and R2 attacks. They don't enjoy watching a boss fight a summon and stabbing it in the back. They want to learn the bosses moveset and find solutions to every move through their skill alone. Which is admirable because they're trying to engage with the game on it's fundamentals and if those fundamentals don't work there's issues with From's design.

If you're right and you say "A player shouldn't be relying on the core combat to beat bosses but all these extra bits glued onto the side of a 15 year old game instead" then the core combat has failed at it's basic functions. From combat is not very deep, rolling and pressing R1 or L2 are the same thing mechanically and both should be viable options in their own right.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

If you're right and you say "A player shouldn't be relying on the core combat to beat bosses but all these extra bits glued onto the side of a 15 year old game instead" then the core combat has failed at it's basic functions. From combat is not very deep, rolling and pressing R1 or L2 are the same thing mechanically and both should be viable options in their own right.

Define "core combat" and explain in detail why 84 available abilities are not part of it.

Again, this is like saying PSI is not part of the 'core combat' of Underrail. Or that Baldur's gate is for melee only and no magic classes. Or that Geralt should never use Signs. You're creating an arbitrary distinction where none exists.

 

[Spike]

Only skimmed this but if you think you need to use magic or summons to beat the last boss, then L-O-L is all I have to say

 

[Hell Swarm]

If you're right and you say "A player shouldn't be relying on the core combat to beat bosses but all these extra bits glued onto the side of a 15 year old game instead" then the core combat has failed at it's basic functions. From combat is not very deep, rolling and pressing R1 or L2 are the same thing mechanically and both should be viable options in their own right.

Define "core combat" and explain in detail why 84 available abilities are not part of it.

Again, this is like saying PSI is not part of the 'core combat' of Underrail. Or that Baldur's gate is for melee only and no magic classes. Or that Geralt should never use Signs. You're creating an arbitrary distinction where none exists.

I'm not a tranny so I don't care about your tranny games and your complete lack of understanding about action games.

Souls combat's core is the R1, R2 and roll button. The game fundamentally revolves around them. No matter what stats a player has they will always have a basic melee attack and a roll button. So they are the absolute core to the combat mechanics. Even if you equip nothing at all you can still punch and roll your way to victory.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think Elden Ring is balanced around summons

Yeah but you are wrong, like you always are.

The only time they factored in summons in their balance is when they came out with the idea of putting multiple field bosses in a room toghether, which was supposed to invite the player to use spirit ashes.

And that's pretty much it. Everything else in the game is balanced for solo play. Even when they included summons in the same room as the boss they didn't change anything about the dynamic of the boss because the AI was designed for solo play. All they do is add flavor through dialog etc. and they even factored in outcomes for not using them (like the Hornsent being dejected if you kill Messmer without him).

And even when it comes to the duo bosses in the base game, they recatent on the idea of forcing people to use spirit ashes by toning down the AI, so that the bosses are now balanced for solo play.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The complainers won't even use shields. "Shields are cheap! I just want to dodgeroll!!!!!!" FFS. There is no other game on this entire forum where the players act like this. In Underrail it is generally recognized that PSI and PSI-hybrid builds are very strong, yet no one tries to say PSI is "not the intended way to play." Cave-wizard wrecks that game, and no one cares.

I've argued, and demonstrated many times i should think, that many FromSoft bosses are designed to often "invite" a certain playstyle as a counter. It's not made explicit but they'll usually give you some tell tale signs.

For me, Dark Souls vaunted "difficutly" lied less about being hard for the sake of being hard (though it was hard) and more about not threating the player like an idiot.

With DS3 they veered a bit more towards the "hard for the sake of being hard" aspect and i think they realized that because Elden Ring brought back the RPGness of the original Dark Souls with a vengeance, while upping the "hard for hard sake" factor, so that you basically end up with a situation where if you are taking the boss on its own terms it is super difficult but there are "strategic" options you can rely on to mitigate the difficulty.

In a way, i don't see what else they could have done. If they toned down the difficutly to match the older games people would have complained the game is too easy now and "dumped" down for the masses. If they forced people to master each boss to get past them it would have stalled the progression for a majority of people.

Notice of course that Hell Swamp's original argument is that the bosses CANNOT be beat legitimately. He is not complaining about the mere existence of options to tone the difficutly down since you are free not to use them and their presence in the game isn't going to alter your experience if you ignore them. What he is arguing is that there is actually NO way to beat the bosses legitimately and that those options to trivalize the difficutly are NOT optional.

To which i can only say: skill issue bro. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

[Hell Swarm]

"The game isn't balanced around summons" meets "It's balanced around using all the tools you find" Lyric retardation.

Also mixed with Miyazaki talking about him using summons to beat the game. The literal director of the game telling you how he intended it to be played when he's always been the series difficulty bench mark and if he can't beat something they will scale it back.

You would think Lyric would go back to his containment thread since every time he posts he's made to look like an idiot.

 

[abija]

Considering the crap you pulled in this thread how about you start providing exact quotes and sources for those quotes?

 

[Stoned Ape]

Considering the crap you pulled in this thread how about you start providing exact quotes and sources for those quotes?

"But in preparation for Shadow of the Erdtree, I played through the main story of Elden Ring. I want to preface this by saying I absolutely suck at video games, so my approach or play style was to use everything I have at my disposal, all the assistance, every scrap of aid that the game offers, and also all the knowledge that I have as the architect of the game ... the freedom and open-world nature of Elden Ring perhaps lowered the barrier to entry, and I might be the one who's benefiting the most from that, as a player, more than anyone else."

https://www.eurogamer.net/dont-worry-even-miyazaki-struggled-with-elden-rings-high-difficulty

I'm pretty sure 'everything I have at my disposal, all the assistance, every scrap of aid that the game offers' includes Spirit Ashes.

 

[abija]

But the message is completely different, a lot closer to Lyric's point.

And he doesn't say "that's how I intended the game to be played". He just made sure there's enough in the game to get you past obstacles even if you suck.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I'm pretty sure the intention was to give people as many options to progress through the game that they need to beat it. If someone wants to dodge through every thing then if they put their time into learning it then it is (obviously) entirely possible. If they want to no hit bosses they can, if they want to stack buffs and OHK anything in the game then that is also an option. NPC summons and Spirit Ashes are, also.

The game is made to be enjoyed by a wide selection of players of different abilities and the tools are in place to engage with it as a player's skill requires. I tried playing it 'properly' when I first started and did not enjoy the experience whatsoever. Now I try to fight a boss a few times with minimal 'assists' but if I get frustrated I use more and more tools until I beat the boss. I find this much more enjoyable.

 

[Odoryuk]

Souls games were always intended for players to be played and having fun. Want to summon strangers that will help you beat a difficult boss? You can do it. You're old and your reaction time is compromised by your slowly dying body? You can overlevel and tank a lot more damage than usual. Beat the game for the first time and want to have a new experience? Try a different build, use a different weapon. You played the games a lot of times and they're not as engaging anymore? Try SL1 run, this will make you search for new ways of defeating difficult enemis.

That's the way it was intended to be played. By having a lot of choices. No choice is wrong.

But if you have a small self esteem and you find beating difficult bosses with little to no means of getting your character stronger that the game provide very rewarding, I can see how you could argue that summons and magic and op stuff is wrong, feeling you're better than other people at least at something

 

[Hell Swarm]

Considering the crap you pulled in this thread how about you start providing exact quotes and sources for those quotes?

"But in preparation for Shadow of the Erdtree, I played through the main story of Elden Ring. I want to preface this by saying I absolutely suck at video games, so my approach or play style was to use everything I have at my disposal, all the assistance, every scrap of aid that the game offers, and also all the knowledge that I have as the architect of the game ... the freedom and open-world nature of Elden Ring perhaps lowered the barrier to entry, and I might be the one who's benefiting the most from that, as a player, more than anyone else."

https://www.eurogamer.net/dont-worry-even-miyazaki-struggled-with-elden-rings-high-difficulty

I'm pretty sure 'everything I have at my disposal, all the assistance, every scrap of aid that the game offers' includes Spirit Ashes.

I wouldn't bother replying to the Fromfags. They won't even read or watch what you show. Better to laugh at them for being pathetic losers.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Lyric Suite have you tried out the Crucible Feather Talisman? This guy is doing some pretty impressive stuff with its backstep upgrade:

 

[abija]

But if you have a small self esteem and you find beating difficult bosses with little to no means of getting your character stronger that the game provide very rewarding, I can see how you could argue that summons and magic and op stuff is wrong, feeling you're better than other people at least at something

And then you throw a hissy fit that FROM are shit devs and made the bosses too difficult :D

 

[Cryomancer]

Is this build viable for the DLC?



TL;DR - Dual staff of loss night mage

I'm unable to defeat the final boss of the DLC. Maybe this can help me. Who knows. Any hint?

 

[Anonona]

I'm unable to defeat the final boss of the DLC. Maybe this can help me. Who knows. Any hint?

Usually parries or blocking + guard counters or attacks with a greatshield are the best tools to deal against the final boss, going for dodges is in my opinion the hardest method and the less fun.

Can't say for sure night magic works against him, haven't tried myself, but it certainly is powerful in base game, including against Malenia, so it may work. Consider using a tanky spirit like Taylew the golem in the DLC to distract the final boss and pelt it with spells. You can use the black hole spells to deal with the meteorite attacks and run far away from him to dodge a lot of it's attacks, including the one with clones, as while they have very long ranges, they don't cover the full arena, so coupled with a spirit it may actually allows you to not deal with a lot of its attacks.

And of course, try to level your Scadu level as high as possible and stack physical and holy resistances.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I've been trying Dragon Waifu Florissax in NG+ (going to finish off getting the rest of the achievements I missed first time through) and she seems somewhat useful post-patch. She's using her incantations much more frequently (especially Dragon Claw) and rarely seems to wade into melee with her pool noodle of non-smiting like she used to. I've only really been using her to help clear big groups of mobs quickly but she couldn't manage that before.

I've not felt the need to summon her for any bosses so far, my character just melts them because I'm over levelled for the base game.

 

[Odoryuk]

Is this build viable for the DLC?



TL;DR - Dual staff of loss night mage

I'm unable to defeat the final boss of the DLC. Maybe this can help me. Who knows. Any hint?

The thing that, I think, helped me the most, was equipping Marika's braid for the second phase, which boosts your holy defence.
I spent so much time at the finall boss I'm too ashamed to admit the exact numbers, and not a single thing I tried made it easy, you just have to persevere.

 

[Silverfish]

No choice is wrong.

Debatable. If From genuinely took that approach, there wouldn't have been nerfs to weapons or spells over the game's lifespan. The discussion surrounding Radahn's difficulty would be moot since anyone could fall back on the perfume trick to beat him easily.