Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[Gunnar]

SAVE.OFTEN.AND.IN.DIFFERENT.SLOTS

Yeah, I'm a chronic forget-to-saver, I get so involved with the game. This shit has been happening to me for 20 years.

Gunnar

there's nothing quite like dying by trap in a Wiz-clone, isn't there? Hehe. And teleporting into rock?

It's the best way to travel!

Haha.

Seriously though, I prefer traps that matter over what most games do, which is make them totally trivial and pointless. I'm looking forward to new and exciting deaths, I'm sure this game hasn't given up all its secrets yet.

 

[aweigh]

it's been almost exactly 35 years since Wizardry instituted the trapped chest "scenario" as a gameplay element and, to this fucking day, this particular slice of mechanics has yet to be improved upon.

Making the loot be tied to floors instead of to enemies, and then making chests represent a second "encounter phase" after the victory over the enemies; a shining example of brilliant simplicity in design and execution.

Somehow modern devs still haven't quite grasped the simple elegance of why this sort of "loot system" works so well and why it dovetails so organically with he rest of the game's party-building and chracter-building gameply mechanics!

(Yes, of course I fucking know that the "trapped chest scenario" was taken wholesale from pen-and-paper RPGs, specifically from D&D; but the Wiz-brothers were the ones to implement into a video game).

EDIT: Can't remember right now if Oubliette had trapped chests, but nobody can argue that it wasn't Wiz that perfected them.

 

[Sacred82]

I so not dig the random stat gains/ losses in this game, my Fighter-->Sam had a measly 16 Strength to start with, and then he has lost 1 point of Strength on every level up. Of course not quite understanding the stat gaining process I gave him the exact stats a Sam needs so there wasn't much to spend on Strength, but still.

He now has a Strength of 12 and hits like a wet blanket despite wielding a Claymore. My max Strength Brawler virtually has to carry the whole party.

 

[Haplo]

Well, there is an alternative. Not that I'd encourage you to use it....

 

[Sacred82]

savescumming? I usually used the "rest all" option for convenience to level everyone up, so that kinda forbade savescumming. Also I suspected stat gains could be deterministic like HP gains.

 

[aweigh]

it's really not all that worth going through all of the trouble it takes to save-scum level ups. I tried it out in my 1st playthrough and stopped doing it quickly. It's much too much trouble for whatever benefit in return.

the only time I might do it (and I won't, but I wouldn't criticize it) is if at LVL 13 your wizard doesn't learn Diomante, which can sometimes happen! and he/she'll learn it at LVL 14.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuck dat, reload, i want it now.

 

[Sacred82]

Well the good thing is I have confirmed for myself that Strength does influence to hit, I guess. At Strength 16 the Fighter hit less often (noticeably) than the Strength 20 Brawler. Now with 12 vs. 22 Strength the difference in hits is huge.

 

[an Administrator]

How does this random stat gain/lose work at all?

 

[aweigh]

the chart for the gains/downs is based of d100 percentile dice rolls which are tied to the race, age and bedroom option.

the file with the spreadsheet for each race breaking it down by "age bracket" was uploaded a few pages ago by me: i believe it's called CHARMPLT.xls or maybe it was PLAYER.xls, something like that. It is definitely not RACE.xls though, that one is only for breaking down race life-spans.

 

[Haplo]

Wow, so the bedroom option actually has an impact?

 

[an Administrator]

Well, maybe i should stop resting my fellow adventurers in stable from now on...

 

[Haplo]

Just what I was thinking...

 

[Sacred82]

ah, that's what you mean by bedroom option. I thought it was a witty name for gender.

I've always rested my peeps in economy bedrooms for levelups and I did mostly get nice stat gains (with the above mentioned exception). I got better stat gains than I expected actually considering I started all my chars at the minimum age.

 

[Dorarnae]

dovebell for traveling the tower last few floor.

 

[Gunnar]

My Brawler routinely does 600-670 damage per strike with The World. And he can combo up to 4 strikes (where the 4th hit can deal triple damage if it's "Clean Hit"). Over 900 per strike with War Rite orCounter Attack bonuses. But he does have Mark of Ruin 50% damage bonus.

I finally found it! Really great stats but... it has -90% on charm and -90% on confusion! I guess the greater damage outweighs the near certainty of being charmed? Sounds pretty dangerous, if the Brawler turned against the party with that kind of power. What do you do, ore up some resistance to charm somewhere else?

 

[an Administrator]

if the Brawler turned against the party with that kind of power. What do you do

Reload.

 

[Gunnar]

Actually I uncursed it, put it on and my defense vs confusion and charm is sitting at 12%? When you uncurse something with an ore does it mitigate the negative effects of the item?

edit- damage doesn't seem that great, around the same as my other knuckles?

 

[Sacred82]

I'm quite liking my party, it's been near untouchable against the melee enemies early on. Thing is I realized I have none of the advanced defensive stuff planned, no Court Sanctuary, no Barrier, no high level Cleric, no Vigilance. I also have no damage spells to speak of, so I have no real way to get at those back row casters until I get that infinite range spell. Will I run into trouble until then y/n

Not planning to take this party into the postgame so maybe my defense will be good enough

Fighter now uses a 22000 GP Flamberge and is still outperformed by Brawler when he kicks (who uses Bronze knuckles).

It seems quite worthwhile to have one of your class changing chars take Find Treasure early on, it's been working in every single random encounter I've had so I don't know if it's really chance based. It's great to run into that one puny monster on your way out, which would only be a nuisance usually but now leaves just as much loot as a big fight.

 

[Gunnar]

It seems quite worthwhile to have one of your class changing chars take Find Treasure early on, it's been working in every single random encounter I've had so I don't know if it's really chance based. It's great to run into that one puny monster on your way out, which would only be a nuisance usually but now leaves just as much loot as a big fight.

You'll get a chest with every fight except certain special encounters with that skill.

 

[aweigh]

I have mentioned this before But the game's post-game isn't actually a post-game.

When you defeat Cyclonus not only is there no actual game ending (only credits), but the King himself simply continues to tell you about the new danger facing the land which he would like it ever so much if you went and checked out.

You get an ending slide only when you clear Ibag's Tower. It is the only Elminage game, btw, where the "post-game" is like this, in case anyone was wondering.

So if you're planning on not taking your party into the "post-game" what you're really typing is that you only plan playing 50% of the game's story.

 

[Haplo]

Actually I uncursed it, put it on and my defense vs confusion and charm is sitting at 12%? When you uncurse something with an ore does it mitigate the negative effects of the item?

edit- damage doesn't seem that great, around the same as my other knuckles?

Well, I didn't uncurse. Instead I basically doubled the weapon damage (+6 damage). Damage per hit isn't high... but 20 hits per attack action using the Strenght bonus (with +10 to hit), doubled by 2x vs all races and, in my case, +50% from Mark of Ruin, are nothing to sneeze at.
I use devilish monster adventurers, so they can use cursed equipment. My Tempest Efreet Brawler had base Confusion & Charm resistances at 90%... so now he's at 0%.
Can switch weapons to dual Death Arms or Golden Jamadhar if combats become Charm & Confusion heavy. So far stuff has been dying fast enough for me not to notice much. But I'm only on the second level of the Cave of the Ancients.

 

[Haplo]

I'm quite liking my party, it's been near untouchable against the melee enemies early on. Thing is I realized I have none of the advanced defensive stuff planned, no Court Sanctuary, no Barrier, no high level Cleric, no Vigilance. I also have no damage spells to speak of, so I have no real way to get at those back row casters until I get that infinite range spell. Will I run into trouble until then y/n

Not planning to take this party into the postgame so maybe my defense will be good enough

Fighter now uses a 22000 GP Flamberge and is still outperformed by Brawler when he kicks (who uses Bronze knuckles).

It seems quite worthwhile to have one of your class changing chars take Find Treasure early on, it's been working in every single random encounter I've had so I don't know if it's really chance based. It's great to run into that one puny monster on your way out, which would only be a nuisance usually but now leaves just as much loot as a big fight.

Well, not being able to quickly deal significant damage to the back row may be a problem. Maybe some crowd control could help instead... but it hasn't been particularly reliable for me - except multi status afflictions from monster adventurers which test multiple enemy resistances per action (Ninja such as Dragonfly, Nue Samurai).

 

[Gunnar]

Actually I uncursed it, put it on and my defense vs confusion and charm is sitting at 12%? When you uncurse something with an ore does it mitigate the negative effects of the item?

edit- damage doesn't seem that great, around the same as my other knuckles?

Well, I didn't uncurse. Instead I basically doubled the weapon damage (+6 damage). Damage per hit isn't high... but 20 hits per attack action using the Strenght bonus (with +10 to hit), doubled by 2x vs all races and, in my case, +50% from Mark of Ruin, are nothing to sneeze at.
I use devilish monster adventurers, so they can use cursed equipment. My Tempest Efreet Brawler had base Confusion & Charm resistances at 90%... so now he's at 0%.
Can switch weapons to dual Death Arms or Golden Jamadhar if combats become Charm & Confusion heavy. So far stuff has been dying fast enough for me not to notice much. But I'm only on the second level of the Cave of the Ancients.

Ah, that makes more sense then. The only Devilish character I have is my Ninja. Also in the Ancient cave, boy that was a moment when I first entered

 

[aweigh]

Cave of the Ancients is my all-time favorite blobber dungeon <3

(In Elminage terms, the best dungeon award almost inarguably goes to the Royal Tomb; but CotA wins the "AWESOME SHIT!!!1" award).

 

[Gunnar]

Can anyone tell me what dark attack attribute is good for? I'm guessing the cleric spells that kill instantly?