Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[arcenierin]

I'm leaning towards a composition that is stacked more towards casters. I want to end up with a bishop, a summoner, and an alchemist. Seems reasonable to plan to get there by way of a lot of multiclassing, so all three casters can cast from multiple schools. Aweigh has me sold on the merits of pure cleric and thief. That leaves me with one slot for a melee-type, which sounds more and more like a brawler, for summoner synergy. If I worked around the summoner/brawler, I'd have more flexibility but I'd be leaving a lot of potential on the table. This party feels a lot lighter on melee than I'm comfortable with, per se, but -should- make up for that in sheer utility, what with all the spell slots. I'd consider the bishop to be the most expendible slot; he's more for on-the-go identification and would probably work just as well from the bench if I ended up needing another hitter.

What do y'all think?

 

[Haplo]

1 dedicated melee? Frankly that doesn't sound good. Casters are nice and all.. but its the melees/ranged DD that carry you trough most of the encounters.
Invest more in partial casters, perhaps - Samurai, Valkyrie/Lord, Alchemist->Hunter.

Personally I prefer Ninja to Thief. Not only due to the behead chance, but also due to 50% enemy ambush prevention. Ninjas do grow slower, though. And are not great till they reach high Luck & Agi.
Thief stealing is of very little value in Gothic IMO (its good in Original).

Also Brawlers are very good, but don't feel obliged to take one just because you will have a Summoner. I found setting up their combos more trouble then worth - and only really useful in post-game, when it's almost needed to have realistic poke-capture changes of elite post-game mobs. Brawlers are still great for the post-game due to their systematic (slow during regular levels) AC growth - they eventually become the best non-summon tanks.

 

[arcenierin]

Thanks. I'll make a few adjustments based on this feedback. If I level thru the various caster classes on my way to summoner (going for mage and alch first, for instance), will I eventually be able to cast those spells as a summoner? If so, are there caps to how many ranks I'll have available? How does that work?

 

[Haplo]

Yes, you preserve known spells between classes. However casters eventually get 9 casts per spell level and multiclass characters are capped at 3 (they get 3 slots for all spell levels known, even if their previous class level let them have only 1 slot of highest spell level known).

But there are exceptions to this. Cleric <-> Valkyrie/Lord, Mage <-> Bard/Samurai inherit all spell slots. Same deal Mage/Cleric (just the last class) <-> Bishop.
Interestingly, Alchemist -> Hunter also works that way (even though Hunter doesn't normally have any casting abilities).

 

[Ysaye]

From that point of view, you need to weigh up the special mastery skills of Bishop versus Summoner and which one you want; those being blood oath (improved summon creatures) versus improved Magic Power Up (improved mage and/or cleric spells).

Once you know that, then you go the the class/classes* first that you DON'T want the mastery skill of until you get all the spell levels. Personally, whilst I normally adore Bishops, apart from Identify (which you can just have a levelled Bishop in the shed for) there are just a lot of other classes that are better. As Haplo said, you want the teleporting spell for ease of movement, or the Cure Poison from the Cleric line, but the mastery skill doesn't help out with that. Better to go with a dualled part caster (I like Mage - > Lord but there are many other reasonable combos) if that is the purpose, or a pure mage or cleric (with their better Magic Power Up skill) if you want to deal the most pain / curing. Alchemists are a bit different because they can unlock chests and they crafting scales with their levels (Alchemy Power Up), so you kind of want to have a better Alchemist all the time. Why not go:

• [FRONT ROW] Samurai (or Fighter or Brawler); - General Melee
• [FRONT ROW] Brawler (or Fighter or Samurai); - General Melee (Afflictions)
• [FRONT ROW] Thief ; - for stealing
• [BACK ROW] Cleric; - For healing
• [BACK ROW] Summoner (Dualled Mage and Cleric Spells); - For monsters; and
• [BACK ROW] Alchemist (maybe consider dualled Mage and Cleric Spells?)? - For crafting, backup thiefing and general utility spells.

Not too much dualling required there if you don't want to, but lots of utility. I found early on a cleric in the front row is generally fine, so you could do that as well, as opposed to the Thief.

(*Quicker to go Mage->Cleric than to go Bishop to get all cleric and mage spells IF your end point is Summoner).

 

[Haplo]

Very good advice. What is missing IMO is enemy back row efficient elimination capability. I find the Valkyrie with her spears perfect for that (offers huge support as well... generally enough to act as main healer IMO). Also there are some seriously OP spears... and late game you can even dual wield them!
A Hunter would also work, I guess.

 

[arcenierin]

I dusted off my old save and found a party I was working with awhile back.

Human Fighter
Dwarf Samurai
Human Cleric
Hotlet Thief
Human Alchemist
Elf Mage (multiclassed alch)

Apparently I made it to the church with that party. Not a bad place to be because I can take time to grind / rebuild as needed.

The fighter is a house. Absolutely performs as expected - zero regrets. Currently wielding a Killer.
The samurai is less impressive. Currently has a low str (14) and doesn't really do all that well in melee. More useful as a psuedo-mage.
The cleric is working decently. Anchors the front line, doesn't really have mana issues. Damage isn't great but that isn't what he is there for.
The thief does a good job of disarming but has had terrible hp growth. Like, level 14 or something with like, 66 hp. It's pretty bad.
The alchemist and the mage are both worth their weight in debuffs. Zero regrets. I'm going to keep multiclassing the mage then finish it as a summoner.

I'm really on the fence about the samurai and the thief. I have a brawler and a valk on the bench, and either feel like valid alternatives to the samurai. I have a red cap ninja on my bench as well and was considering calling it up to the main roster; the only limitation there is that it has god-awful hp (like, 28 or 29 - its really, really bad).

Feels like I'm at a decent place to pause, take stock, and do some grinding before I push forward. The other limitation I've seen is a marked lack of gear - I've found a few upgrades here and there, but nothing that is really stand out so far.
At this point, I suppose my question is, do I press forward with the church or take a lil time to explore all these side areas that just opened? Should I consider making adjustments to the roster? Do I just need to spend more time on the gear grind?

 

[Haplo]

Hmm, Stat growth is a matter of time (and maybe rerolling levels till you get what you want.. if you're not averse to such practices).

Samurais grow slower then fighters but IMO become much more potent (if you find good equipment, which is easier for fighters).
Their late game ability to have a shot at negating enemy attacks - and doing a counter with attacks from both hands is pretty awesome.

But I do love the Nue the most as a Spirit Pack Samurai. Besides the usual goodies, 30% to Paralyze, Sleep and Confuse enemies per hand? Possibly as a counter following their feeble attempts to cut him down? Yes, please. Plus nearly immune to most effects himself. Get some elemental boosts and resistances also. Of course, that's awfully late game, at the Volcano. Also a bit challenging to poke-capture.


RedCap isn't too shabby, but if you're at the Church, I'd hunt for a Dragonfly Ninja. 30% chance to inflict Charm plus many lesser affliction chances is really nice. Was also a very easy capture AFAIR. Looks nice too

As for melee force... I think at the church you can recruit a Cyclops brawler, who isn't too shabby. Even knows some Alchemy spells. I do like the Tempest Efreet from deep Hastrana caves much more as a Brawler, who is immune to nearly everything, but that is a quite difficult catch at low to mid levels.

 

[e-mailio estevez]

I'm starting this for the first time on my trusty PSP Vita

Spoiler

Which by the way- when hacked, it's probably my favorite system of all time. Great OLED screen. It's got the absolute best dpad out of any controller or system I've ever used, and hair-sensitive analog sticks to boot. I broke Binding of Isaac over my knee when I used to play it on my Vita- all thanks to it's great controls.

I bought Gothic but I'd like to try out Original on my Vita first. Is there an easy way to tell whether I've got the patched version or not?

 

[e-mailio estevez]

I've been playing a lot of Original in the last week or so and I am really enjoying this game. It scratches the same itch that SMT: Nocturne does where occasionally be on the bad end of a surprise attacked and half my party is unceremoniously killed. I love it.

I can already tell I'm going to want to play Gothic once I'm through with this- but is there even a viable translation patch out for the PSP version? I really can't imagine playing in anything but english. But blobbers play great on a handheld- I played through a good portion of the SNES Wizardry 6 port using my PSP.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

What's the biggest amount of bonus stats for age 10 character you can get during chargen?
The biggest number I've seen so far was 28, but some people write you can get 40+ points. I find it hard to believe.
Maybe Iam missing something?

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Ive got 39. Not sure how it would be possible to roll this without automation...

 

[aweigh]

No shame in just leveling up a fighter and then turning them into a Lord, I did it a few times when I just couldn't be bothered. In fact in terms of HP growth that is the optimal strategy.

Samurais are easier to get tho, can be easily gotten with an elf or even a hotlet, i always include one in basically any Elminage party; it's only Lords that take a bit of rolling to get.

Needless to say Ninjas are essentially off the table, unless you cheat or automate the rolling in some way, but the game accounts for this and there are items that turn you into a ninja in both Original and Gothic, though in the case of Elminage: Gothic it is not worth using the item (hermit's knife in that game), because while it does turn you into a ninja it does NOT allow you to use the ninja class Ex-Skill of replicate, which is one of the best ex-skills in the entire game and the main reason to want a ninja in E: Gothic.

They hadn't yet implemented ex-skills in E: Original, though, so transforming into one via Silver Rapier is fine and has no downsides.

EDIT: Also Brawlers are almost over-powered in E: Original, especially if you pair them with a Thief who steals enemy equipment for them. (Brawlers can use most of the enemy equipment, and in fact most of their best stuff can only be gotten by being stolen off enemies, in E: Original).

 

[Matador]

Devilish brawler using bad guys claws, good times in Original.

I made a mage and change her to thief. Between stealing and some spell casting, was one of the most useful characters.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

or automate the rolling in some wa.

This is what I've actually ended up doing...

 

[Matador]

Fire up this where I left a year ago in Ibag Tower 3rd floor, thinking about trying to finish it. Walk 3 steps and encounter Chad Skillving with 3 sword masters.



I need some warm up with slimes, goblins or something.

 

[razvedchiki]

whats the best race/class combinations?

edit

just got a 31 roll with a human, made him a lord.
the bad thing is that i made him 35 years old, will i have problems with his age?

 

[Matador]

whats the best race/class combinations?

edit

just got a 31 roll with a human, made him a lord.
the bad thing is that i made him 35 years old, will i have problems with his age?

It's not that bad, but if you go for postgame is possible to get a bit too old.

There are some traps that reduce your age. aweigh Dorarnae , what are the best spots to get Kiss of the Goddess? I remember there was one dungeon and floor where they were the most common trap. In some floor of the Royal Tomb I think.

For race/class combo they are usually intuitive, not that important. Werebeasts and humans are very flexible. Dwarf clerics and Valkyries,etc.

 

[aweigh]

I really wouldn't be able to tell you where to farm kiss of the goddess, I never did that. Age was just never a consideration for me, though I did once have a fairy-race character die of old age after about 200 hours or so of game play. Ended up hex-editing her age back to a lower number. I'd say there is no reason to think about age other than maybe on a fairy.

EDIT: Also I don't have any philosophical or existential problem with hex-editing the age of a char on a game file like that as the game is bugged and time isn't supposed to go by at the pace that it does; this was fixed on the 3DS version.

 

[Jason Liang]

They are very common in the pyramid.

Err, yes. Royal Tomb.

 

[razvedchiki]

ok, this is the party i will prob roll

- human valkerie, for their spears.
- human lord, read that they become awesome late game (also with his and valks healing spells i will not need a cleric).
- dragon samurai.
- gnome alcemist.
- weresomething hunter
- either an elf mage or a halfling thief/ninja.

 

[Haplo]

Maybe Lords do become awesome late game. Read: Halfway trough post-game.
Before that... they are simply slow, IMO.

Think a dwarven Valkyrie might be more optimal, but a human will work too.

 

[Dorateen]

Don't forget that an alchemist working with high level ore, can make a lot of varied modifications to weapons. In addition to bonuses and special properties, certain restrictions can be removed. I had a dwarven pure fighter using a powerful spear in the post game.

 

[Jason Liang]

you want at least 1 mage in your openinig party to learn Diomante (Malor) immediately

 

[razvedchiki]

Maybe Lords do become awesome late game. Read: Halfway trough post-game.
Before that... they are simply slow, IMO.

Think a dwarven Valkyrie might be more optimal, but a human will work too.

so its better to start as fighter then multiclass him?