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Emulation central - recommendations in 1st post

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,566
It's not about sharing. But developement. You can't share something that doesn't exist.
Nobody can forbid you to develop something and nobody can truly prevent any code/algorithm sharing (see the example of a RSA algorithm splitted and printed on several t-shirt weared by people going outside US and then recombined). And nobody can prevent you to compile any code you want on your computer for personal use (as nobody can prevent you to print wathever you want on a t-shirt).
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
16,242
It's not about sharing. But developement. You can't share something that doesn't exist.
Nobody can forbid you to develop something and nobody can truly prevent any code/algorithm sharing (see the example of a RSA algorithm splitted and printed on several t-shirt weared by people going outside US and then recombined). And nobody can prevent you to compile any code you want on your computer for personal use (as nobody can prevent you to print wathever you want on a t-shirt).

No, but creating modern emulator requires shitload of work. The reason why citra ryu and yuzu were so fast on scene and in such good shape was because avenue of making $$$ opened up which pushed work further.
Moreover the emulation aspect becomes more and more complicated with every new machine.
So there is line between working emulator and nothing that keeps getting higher and higher.

Though i don't care much these days. Consoles are effectively dying breed. Even Sony now decided to go full multiplatform leaving Ninty alone.
 

pakoito

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,159
It's not about sharing. But developement. You can't share something that doesn't exist.
Nobody can forbid you to develop something and nobody can truly prevent any code/algorithm sharing (see the example of a RSA algorithm splitted and printed on several t-shirt weared by people going outside US and then recombined). And nobody can prevent you to compile any code you want on your computer for personal use (as nobody can prevent you to print wathever you want on a t-shirt).

No, but creating modern emulator requires shitload of work. The reason why citra ryu and yuzu were so fast on scene and in such good shape was because avenue of making $$$ opened up which pushed work further.
Moreover the emulation aspect becomes more and more complicated with every new machine.
So there is line between working emulator and nothing that keeps getting higher and higher.

Though i don't care much these days. Consoles are effectively dying breed. Even Sony now decided to go full multiplatform leaving Ninty alone.
Couple of asterisks here.

Projects have started spinning off others, making that start much easier. Yuzu came from Citra IIRC. That gives you the baseline for the UI and multiplatform code, so you can focus on the actual emulation.

Second: the latest generations of consoles have a OS and SDK that's comparable with developing for regular computers, which means you don't have to emulate the full CPU/GPU architecture with crazy accuracy. Gone are the days of memory pokes, the emotion engine and the cell processor. Which means it's easier to emulate.

Switch emulation focuses on reproducing the APIs in the OS, which have a simple mapping to OpenGL/DX/Vulkan equivalents; and sane-ish ones for audio/wifi/filesystem. That's why switch emus started almost at the same time as the console, and have evolved alongside it.

EDIT: And as Nintendo is doing evolutive OS rather than rewriting it from scratch with every console, there's a good chance Switch 2 will have release titles going ingame in an emu, and Playable within a couple of months.
 
Last edited:

spekkio

Arcane
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
8,340
BROs, the incline has started:

incline.png


I plan to modify the entire list in the OP. Reason?

Well, a couple years ago I jumped the Retroarch bandwagon, hoping that some nice devs will keep updating its cores constantly, so using standalone emus won't be necessary (each core will be updated shortly after standalone emu's update). Sadly, it didn't happen. RA is as good as always, but some of its cores are becoming more and more belated, when compared to standalone emus which they're based on. flyingjohn has written about it ITT recently.

Anyway, I plan to change the list, adding <- convenience and <- compatibility markers. The first one will in most cases be pointing to the RA core (Swanstation) or the "modern continuation" of the old emu (DOSBox-Staging), the second - to the standalone emu (Duckstation) or the "base" emulator (vanilla DOSBox).

So far I only did first two entries (DOS and old Windows), let me know what you think.

And OFC feel free to DISCUSS! which emu should be marked as "convenience" (for example Staging or -X).

:smug:
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
3,193
Dos wise:
Staging and X are ironically both convenient and accurate. Auto crt shaders for staging and x has many enhancements. This is not like console emu's which sacrifice one for the other, here you get both.
Dosbox should use a new tag related to just being old. It still works but the official builds are way too old and there is no point in using it over the others.
A newcomer you should add is a retroarch core ironically, Dosbox pure. It is designed for maximum convenience.
Daum is unfortunately dead, and has been replaced by x and staging.
Early pc emulation:
86 box is pure accuracy with heavy performance hits because of it.
Pcem on the other hand is much more convenient and easier on the performance.
So just switch the tags for them.
Here is a more updated tutorial for pcem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx2H3IV9SG4&t=909s

And since my "spring cleaning" period is beginning, why not just list everything else:
Commodore 64:
Vice is still the best option, for accuracy and convenience.
You should just add a note to use jiffy dos since the criginal commodore is way too slow. Linking any files would get you the attention of the eye of Infinitron.
Avoid retroarch cores.
Amiga:
Fs-Uae should get the convenience tag and winuae the accuracy tag.
Also, retroarch PUAE core is pretty good and is getting updated. So maybe add that to the convenience bin as well.
Should also leave a note saying that WHDLOAD is for convenience and adf/installing is accuracy.
Atari XL
Change the name to Atari 8 bit, the xl was a very specific line.
Atari 800-Accuracy
Altirra -Convenience
Avoid retroarch cores.
Atari ST
Hatari-Accuracy
Steem -Convenience
Avoid retroarch cores.
NES:
Messen for both. No reason to have nestopia, both are cycle accurate.
Retroarch alternative would be Nestopia, the Messen core is not the same.
SNES:
Ares -Accuracy. Developed by the former guy who made bsnes.
snes9x-Convenience
Retroarch alternative would be any variation of BSNES or snes9x. Snes9x core is perfectly comparable to the standalone.
N64:
Oh boy, here we go:
RMG,simple64, -Convenience but with a big problem. All n64 emulators minus Ares are plugin dependent and that creates its own problems, but these two are made to be as simple as possible.
mupen64plus is in a weird spot where it does both but not good enough to be considered the defacto emulator
Ares-Accuracy. Pretty good for a couple for years of development a a dev switch. No hacks whatsoever.
Gamecube-WII:
The only choice is Dolphin still.
Avoid retroarch core.
WII-U:
Cemu is still the only option. It has gone open source so you can get the newest build here:
https://github.com/cemu-project/Cemu/releases
SWITCH:
Yuzu is going to jail, :). Convenience tag, they practically use every trick in the book to make AMD gpu's run the thing normally on Windows.
Ryujinx-Accuracy
Gameboy-Color:
Sameboy-Accuracy
Gambette is only active on Retroarch and i don't think theres are any emulator that qualifies as Convenience for this handheld since there isn't a lot you need.
GBA:
Mgba is still the best option but you are gonna need vba-m for some romhacks.
Mgba retroarch is fine.
DS:
Melonds for both. Desmume is a joke now.Especially since melonds now allows for dsi emulation.
Retroarch core is decent but forget about dsi stuff.
3DS:
Citra is still the only option.
Avoid the retroarch cores like the plague.
Master system-Genesis-CD-32x:
Genesis plus GX retroarch core is still the best.
Kega Fusion deserves the old tag, it still works with great compatibility.
SATURN:
Forget about the saturn beetle retroarch core.
Mednafen-Accuracy, the only accurate Saturn emu.
Kronos standalone and retroarch core are pretty good and should get the Convenience tag.
DREAMCAST:
Demul should be removed.
Flycast, both standalone and retroarch core is all you need.
Redream is free emulator that would get the Convenience tag if you didn't have to buy the emulator to unlock said features.
Nec consoles:
Mednafen standalone is better then the cores.
But, the cores are not so bad compared to other consoles and can be used without any problems.
PSX:
Mednafen standalone-Accuracy
Duckstation standalone- Convenience
I think Xebra deserves to be on the list for the old tag. It is worse than the other two but, it feels so vintage, in a good way.
Avoid retroarch cores.But if you must use one, use Rearmed.
PS2:
Pcsx2 is still the only one, unfortunately.
Avoid retroarch cores.
PS3:
Rpcs3 is still the only one.
PSP
PPSPPP is still the only one worth it.
Retroarch core is not.
VITA:
Vita 3k is still the only one.
XBOX:
Xemu remains the only choice. CXBX has not caught up, in fact i think they even regressed in some games somehow.
XBOX 360:
Xenia is still here, still annoying to use, still completely random in whatever anything will work. Especially in the audio department.
I do give them credit in making Lost odyssey somewhat playable for a week until newer builds made sure that changed.

That is that i guess.Feel free to take, reject any of my suggestions.
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,697
For C64 emulation, I note that sometimes WinVICE seems to not want to work with tape games. Denise is a good alternative in these cases, IMHO.

On computers not specifically mentioned in the OP, even through the link to the other computer post. Acorn 32-bit lines are not mentioned. None of the Archimedes emus work well on my end, but RPCEmu works beautifully for the tail end of the line.

For Japanese computers, the Neo Kobe Emulator pack should be linked. I've found it works fine for everything except MSX emulation. There's unfortunately not a good one-size fits all solution for most Japanese machines, as some machines have games that don't work well with one emulator but fine with others. This is also a problem with DOSbox, oddly enough, I know that for the original version sometimes you didn't want the latest version, as sometimes it wouldn't work with some games. Dunno if it still happens with the better forks.
 

spekkio

Arcane
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
8,340
flyingjohn said:
Regular:
crazyrobot.gif
isn't enough here. We need :peakaustism: tag for such posts.

:salute:

Edit: DOS -> Snes modified according to suggestions. bsnes > Ares due to byuu alert 'cuz EmuGen says so. :obviously:
 
Last edited:

Endemic

Arcane
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
4,447
Even if it is illegal, how can you stop sharing an open source project?

PjU3hl9.jpeg


Cracking encryption and using the prod.keys file is the issue (as well as the TotK distribution sites pointing to Yuzu pre-launch). They specifically mention over 1 million downloads for the TotK files.
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,566
So extracting encryption keys from owned devices, for personal uses, is illegal now? And why is Yuzu responsible for the Zelda leak too?
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
3,193
flyingjohn said:
Regular:
crazyrobot.gif
isn't enough here. We need :peakaustism: tag for such posts.

:salute:

Edit: Dos & early Windows modified, Commodore64 - Snes added.
If you are interested you can share your favorite strategy games in my thread here:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/your-favorite-strategy-games.149695/
Always looking forward to finding out new or interesting stuff. There are no restriction on platform or subgenre, so even srpg's are allowed.
 

Endemic

Arcane
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
4,447
So extracting encryption keys from owned devices, for personal uses, is illegal now? And why is Yuzu responsible for the Zelda leak too?

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024...ndos-legal-case-against-switch-emulator-yuzu/

Nintendo already won the Dolphin lawsuit on the basis it came with the Wii decryption key, so there is precedent. DMCA doesn't permit the user to break copy protection in order to make a backup, so Nintendo will likely focus on that aspect.
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,566
So extracting encryption keys from owned devices, for personal uses, is illegal now? And why is Yuzu responsible for the Zelda leak too?

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024...ndos-legal-case-against-switch-emulator-yuzu/

Nintendo already won the Dolphin lawsuit on the basis it came with the Wii decryption key, so there is precedent. DMCA doesn't permit the user to break copy protection in order to make a backup, so Nintendo will likely focus on that aspect.
Weren't backup copies for personal use legal? DMCA just forbid reselling and distribution of backup copies. And as far as I know Yuzu don't provides encryption keys, you need to get them from your device.
 

Tse Tse Fly

Savant
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
708
Shit, I thought faggot month was in June

Yuzu emulator shutting down, paying Nintendo 2.4 million in lawsuit settlement

https://gbatemp.net/threads/yuzu-em...ndo-2-4-million-in-lawsuit-settlement.650039/
Just last week, on Tuesday, February 26th, 2024, news broke out about the Yuzu emulator team being sued by none other than Nintendo themselves, with Nintendo claiming that the emulator apparently allowed users to play certain games early (due to street dates being broken) and also allowing piracy of the current Nintendo Switch system.

Today, in a rather surprisingly quick manner, it seems like Tropic Haze LLC., the company behind the Yuzu team, has reached a settlement with Nintendo in regards to the lawsuit. According to a recent official document uploaded just a few minutes ago, Tropic Haze will pay up 2.4 million USD in favour to Nintendo, with both parties agreeing in the settlement and its amount.

UPDATE: According to the proposed Final Judgement and Permanent Injunction document, Yuzu as a whole in its current form will cease to exist, meaning no further development and prohibition of any distribution of built or source code forms of it.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,381
I just downloaded it and now i hear its fucked? Fuck off nintendo.

And the underground will likely get more crowded. I hear sea shanties starting up down in the dark waters.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
11,084
Don't think archive actually backed up any of those files, still having the actual names of them is handy for searching.

Edit: I got an error message and didn't wait long enough for the redirect to go through, they work.
 

Vorark

Erudite
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,450
The files themselves were cached too, at least Windows and Linux appimage.
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,566
Now the easiest way to download yuzu is to get it bundled with totk.
 

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